Matt’s surfing advice is simple, profound & wise.
Show Notes:
036: The 'Surfers' Relationship to Surfing
Scott and I discuss our relationships to the ocean & surfing, try to define what a surfer is, and if we even want to be be labeled as one. Is surfing an addiction? Can it be a ‘positive addiction’? Is your surfing guilt-free? How important is surfing to you? Has surfing lost it’s ‘cool’? Are you the master of your surfing? Or is surfing the master of you?
Show Notes:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/stronger-the-broken-places/201703/relationships-are-surfing
035: DAVID HALL - Posture - How to sit on a surfboard.
David Hall is a Feldenkrais Practitioner and Alexander Technique teacher on the northern beaches NSW. David talks about the method, posture, movement, grace, and finishes with an ATM lesson.
David’s website:
http://www.bodylogic.net.au/about
ATM Lesson:
http://www.bodylogic.net.au/lessons/sitting-on-water
Feldenkrais Guild:
034: ROB BAIN - Former World Tour Pro-Surfer.
Image by: Alex Brunton
Rob Bain pro surfer from Manly Beach, AUS. Rob was ranked No. 5 in 1990 and finished in the top 10 ‘88-’91, won 4 events and even came 3rd at ‘93 longboard champs.
He talks about what drove him to be one of the best, how he learnt to relax and focus in high pressure situations. Memories from his 3rd place in ‘93 Long Board champs and lessons from how riding other boards can help your short-boarding.
Rob also weighs in on the state of surf coaching and individual style, surfboard choice among intermediate surfers.
How to deal with the transition from being a ‘surfer’ to a ‘worker’ in the surf industry.
He also talks about how he recovered form an horrific surfing accident in 2009, and what he learnt form the experience.
His thoughts on mindset, rhythm, flow state, the zone, being in the moment and longevity of performance.
And stories from some of his surfing highlights.
An inspiring icon of Australian surfing.
Rob rides Simon Anderson boards and wears O’Neil wetsuits.
Instagram @bigbadbobbain
Rob also appears regularly on Aint That Swell Podcast. #utfs
Robs G-Land Tsunami near death experience:
033: Surfers are the Worst
Scott is the former editor of Surfer Magazine and now currently hosts The Boardroom Podcast - https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-boardroom-podcast/id1387534637
Co-hosts SPIT Podcast - http://www.spitpodcast.com/
And hosts the The Boardroom Show every year https://boardroomshow.com/
In this episode: What is Style? Why Surfers are the WORST. The origin of surf podcasting, is surfing a sport? Why do we surf? + More.
Are you the master of your surfing or is surfing your master?
032: MATT GRIGGS - Busting Through Terminal Mediocrity
Elite performance coach Matt Griggs teaches us how to break through performance plateaus.
In episode 31 - Taylor Knox we touched on the feeling of surfing, in this episode we dive at lot deeper into the 'feeling' of surfing, and how Kelee Meditation can enhance the feeling of surfing, and the quality of your life.
You can hear more from Matt in episodes 03 and 46
Show Notes:
https://thenatureofsuccess.com.au
https://vimeo.com/239627002
031: TAYLOR KNOX - Awareness, feeling & connection.
Pro surfer Taylor Knox talks about surfing, Kelee meditation, life, and his upcoming Maldives trip with Matt Griggs.
Show Notes:
Taylors' Shaper:
DNS:
https://rehabps.com/REHABILITATION/Home.html
FOMO - Fear Of Missing Out.
https://www.humansleepscience.com/
Transcript
Mike: Is physical training and that sort of round being a big part of what, you know, what made you who you are like the surfer you are today?
Taylor: I think it's made me. Yeah, I think it's had a lot to do with the surfer I am today and how I'm perceived, I guess is the power surfer. But it, it morphed. If I plateaued on it, let's say I plateaued with the physical side of things. I've always loved getting in the gym and pushing my body. But it when I plateaued on it, I was a little bit lost. And I didn't realize that the mental side is, is a way bigger side than the physical. And that the physical didn't, it got to a point where it didn't mean anything to me. You know, in the beginning, it meant something to me. And then it started to fade and it's lost, it's a lower. And that's because I wasn't in touch with the mental side of thing, the spiritual side of things, you know, just, you know, doing things for, for others, or for a career for a job. It's, it's always so much better when you do it for yourself. So I needed to learn about myself more. So, you know, and then it took me back into the physical after that, again.
Mike: To came full circle
Taylor: Its full circle. Yeah, the circle wasn't complete. In the early days, it was all physical. And I'm so glad that I was steered into into the spiritual and you know, the mental side of things, for sure.
Mike: Okay, well, let's back up a little bit. Maybe so because I'm thinking like, when you were younger, and you sort of surfing was a hobby and a passion, Was there a point in your young surfing life where you thought, You know what, this is going to be more than that? I'm going to make something out of this.
Taylor: Well, it meant a lot of different things. It was it was you know, it was my way of making my my way in the world. Breaking away from my parents what every kid eventually ends up doing. It was a dream of mine to be in the ocean. It really was my whole life was just how am I going to stay in or on the ocean, you know. And then surfing. Really my I narrowed my focus in the surfing just because the experience of being in a tube when I was young, I just couldn't get that feeling anywhere else in the world. So, you know, it was just like a driving force that being in the tube just drove the rest of my life. And yeah, I would, I would say that, you know, in the beginning, it was getting stronger. And you know, as you're young male, and you ain't even in the 18 to 20 years. You feel so you feel like Superman, and you just want to push it and push it and push it. So yeah, it was, um, it definitely helped. You know, I don't know, create who I am today, for sure. But then, yeah, there was a there was a time where I came across some some stuff tough in my life and didn't deal with it that great.
Mike: When did you realize you were better than most surfers?
Taylor: Oh, God, you know, Matt, I don't think I ever felt that way.
Mike: No?
Taylor: No,
Matt: That was must have been you must have started competing. And then realizing whoa, I'm coming second. Oh, first. And
Taylor: Yeah, I kind of always felt like, I don't know, when I was even in high school, even locally here. I thought there was like five guys that were more talented than me. Like, I could see their natural talent. And I was like, God, that's just five guys in my little town, you know, that are better than me.
Matt: Now, that's That's enough. That's enough to put most people off.
Taylor: Yeah, I mean, it was
Matt: What made you go? No, tell it's not everything like
Taylor: Because I could see that, you know, they would go they'd party and they would go out and, you know, just not really like I was like, well, since I'm not as talented as these guys. And I feel like they could, if they really put their foot down, they could just, you know, really take off and be way ahead of me. I was like, I'm just gonna outwork them. Because I know they're lazy. And I know they, you know, they won't do all the right things. And, and I was just like, well, I will. And I'll just beat him with hard work. That's, that's kind of how it all started, really.
Matt: Do you remember how old you were? When that realization came?
Taylor: Oh, yep. I was probably in ninth grade. Oh, wow. Yeah. Just enter in high school.
Matt: And when you say do the work, what did you what do you mean by that? Like, what do I mean?
Taylor: I would just I would be out there on days where literally, it would be raining one foot howling onshore, there wouldn't be one personnel on the whole coast. And I'd be out there. And I was like, you know what, these days are gonna pay off. I gotta learn how to like, get better in all conditions. And it doesn't matter how bad it is. I've got to I've just got to like I said, I've, I'm gonna outwork them. I'm gonna just beat him with hard work and tenacity. That's about it.
Matt: So just hours in the water?
Taylor: Hours in the water determination, not, you know, I didn't succumb to peer pressure. I didn't go out to parties that much. I didn't do drugs I didn't drink. I was just like, hyper focused. And they weren't, you know, there was getting lazy smoking some weed, not, you know, skateboarding, a couple of them got really bad knee injuries, skateboarding on ramps and backyards and stuff and like, I don't think they realized how good they were. You know, it was weird, because I could see it. And I was like, Wow, I can't believe they're not taking advantage of this of their talent.
Matt: Yeah. Did that help to motivate you?
Taylor: Totally. You know, cuz I, I felt like it was a natural notion. And I felt like, you know, before I had my back surgery and 10th grade, I felt like I was a pretty good surfer. And I really, like based everything around Tom Curren. You know, he was my hero. He was like, who I wanted to be like, and surf like, and I would try to copy him and, and then back surgery came, started going up some against some stiff competition in high school. And I was like, Wow, this, the fear of maybe this isn't going to happen for me. You know, like, wow, this is I'm not, there's a lot of good surfers out there. Like, I need to step my game up in an area like, and the only way I knew was, you know, just just outwork them, outsmart them.
Matt: So the the back surgery was pretty major. Yeah.
Taylor: Yeah, I had a major back surgery and I'm in 10th grade. You're 10 As you guys would say, I thought I thought I had just a low back pain I was I woke up and I told my mom, you know, before school, like, hey, my back's hurting, you know, and let's go. So after about a week, went to the chiropractor, and he, you know, justed me and I was like, Oh, just thinking it was just going to get better. And it didn't get better. And a couple days later, I called for my mom before school, and I literally was, like, paralyzed in bed, I couldn't get out of bed. So and then I was like, kind of stressed out, I was like, Okay, this, this is something different. And we went to the doctor got an x ray, I'd spondylosis thesis. Grade four. So it's like really bad. It's where the vertebrae is. The you know, my very last one, which is L five slipped all the way out to where it literally was cutting my sciatic nerve and half. And I kind of pain going down my left leg pretty bad. I didn't know what that was about either. But um, so he's like emergency surgery. You know, we're going to graft, we're going to take cut bone from your hip, and we're going to put it around with two screws. It looks like an erector set. So there's two screws the size of my fingers that go through a metal bar, and it's also encased in bone.
Matt: Okay, so what they fused it to one.
Taylor: Now, they didn't fuse this one, but they fused L three, l four and l five. And it's been fused ever since. So we're talking like, this surgery was done in 1986.
Matt: Yeah,
Taylor: I mean, the doctor was like, he was even told us like this is 50-50 if this even works.
Matt: Guinea pig.
Taylor: Yeah. And he was like, and you're never gonna surf again. And I was just like, F you, you know, like, that was, that was all I cared about in the whole world.
Matt: But when the doctor said, Do you never gonna surf again? Did it hit you? Or did you just
Taylor: I couldn't believe it because it was all happening so fast because I thought I thought it was going to chiropractor to get popped back into place. No sweet and then all sudden, I'm here I am in an emergency surgery a couple of weeks later and being told I'm never going to surf again. When like I just right before that happen. I had the best year I've ever had amateur surfing. So I was going to the nationals. It was like wow. Because the first couple years when I was a young surfer. Were funny because I was horrible. I think the first year I did contest, I made it out of one heat the entire year. And my parents were gone. Are you sure this is for you? You know, and the second year was pretty bad too. I think I made a couple heats. And so by the third year, I was like, I was getting it, you know it was coming together. And that's right when I got hit with the back surgery and you know, I was like Can't we put this off like a month I got nationals Can we just can I and they're like, No, we got to do this right now. You're gonna be paralyzed from the waist down. I just was like, Are you kidding me? You know, and it was it just it rattled me and I was they lied to me about my recovery because they didn't think that I would actually come to the hospital. Because so I was like, F this, I'm not doing it, you know what I mean? Like, so they lied to me because they had to get me in there. And I think that's another thing that hit me down the road. As far as time goes, you know, it was just a really in there in my head the whole time, I'm thinking, everyone out there is practicing and getting better than me. And they're going to be that further along than me. So that really, when you say, like, why did you become so focused? And you know, why did you think that was going to be your advantage, because I always felt like I was at a disadvantage the whole time and the underdog. So I started, I can't, you know, I was living in this back brace from my knees to my chest for six months, 24 hours a day, you know, I had to sleep in it. Who I had to give, I would lay on one half and give a like sponge bath. And then I have to roll over. And like, yeah, it was crazy. I was like, I was really tripped out. But it put me at a very early age, it tested my mental boundaries, you know? Because that will, you know, I went through a major depression during it. And then came out of it. You know, it was, it was a roller coaster ride that I'll never forget for sure.
Matt: Yeah. Do you think that added to your drive afterwards? Once you realized,
Taylor: Oh, for sure. Yeah. And it's funny, because, you know, we were talking about Tom Carroll earlier, who's, you know, good friend of mine, too. And I love that man. But so when I hit the depression, I contemplated suicide at one point because I was just, if I couldn't surf, literally, that's the only thing in life that I cared about, you know. So a friend gave me a book, it was kind of a positive self-help book. And, you know, it's looking back on it's kind of funny, but it's, you know, there, I'm well beyond that now, but it definitely changed my frame of mind, you know, from being like, this is, like, I don't need to be on this planet anymore to I started drinking like a gallon of milk a day, because I, back then there was, it was like, no one knew what to do. You know, like, what's good for your bones? Well, calcium is good for your bones. And the only place I knew how to get calcium was in milk. So I would drink like a gallon of milk a day. And I did that for six months. And I started training and I said, That's right when Tom Carroll started training himself well, at least what we were reading in the magazines that he was starting to get in the gym and train and and I was like, That's it. That's how I'm going to be better than everybody is like, I'm going to go into the gym and kind of be a gym rat. Like no one in surfing does that like literally no one was doing that no one was training. So it was kind of like wow, I'm going to be the only guy in my generation that is actually in the gym. And so I went and then I got into yoga a little later and you know started learning about how good it felt to be flexible you know, all that stuff was was was derived off of the the want and love of surfing and then that back surgery. Really just he was a fork in the road basically in my life I see it as could have gone left or could have gone right. Left probably wouldn't have been a good indeed. You know, and then right so it was a bit of a dramatic like in your face decision making time but I'm lucky for me it went I went the right way.
Matt: There's the saying that your voids drive your values to anything that you think you don't have drives you to get it. So you thought you were really a bad surfer and that's what drove you to become one of the best right you know, you had major back surgery that drove even more and
Taylor: Yeah, yeah, it was it was a crazy time because there was there was so much going on you know like and there was surfing was getting so popular, it was growing and you know, there's so many people doing it and it was exciting and you know, there was Tom Curren winning world titles and Aki and you know, the whole world I felt like that was a pretty special time in surfing history. You know, it was like Tom Carroll trains and Tom Curren trains now and like, wow, they're becoming athletes. It's it's pretty cool. I was into it, you know, cuz I I grew up watching sports all the time with my with my dad and stuff, you know, football and baseball and stuff. So I, you know, I'd see IV like kind of like surfers. It could be so much more, you know, like, it's just like, cruising at the beach all day like and that's cool. You know, that works for some people for sure. But it's also like, they I don't think the guys that are doing even the big wave stuff now would be doing that if they didn't start training and these doing breath holds and so it's the whole what surfers use, you know, surfers and jocks used to fight and be against each other. It's just funny now that like, we're completely blended, you know, and it's, it's been a really good thing.
Matt: The feeling, I got a question for you in regards to surfing and training is when you when you are on a decent sized wave, and you you do a proper power turn? How does it feel physically? Can you compare it to anything that you might do in the gym? Like, what sort of physical demands does that require to flow through a turn like that?
Taylor: You know, I mean, as you know, the body is, is meant to move in a spiral muscles and joints and stuff. And that's something I just recently learned from Tim Brown is how like, the body moves in like a spiral motion. And I think in the gym, the closest you can get is by doing some kind of activity, where there's rotation. And, you know, you have good arch and your feet, your feet are flat, and they're connected to the ground. And with some kind of resistance, and not only into it, but as you're going out of it, you know. And I think what you can do that slowly, and you can speed it up a little in the gym, but really in surfing, there's nothing I've felt that can compare to a big, and it's like a formula, I'd say it's like, I've flown an F 18. Before with the Blue Angels. And when you're, when you're doing a turn and like a jet or like I get probably an f1 car. There's those G's, you know, and you you're like, at maximum breaking point, and you feel you're bored and you're feeling the bumps in the wave. And the fins are, like right on the edge of breaking out but they're not, you know, that's when you that feeling now, I don't think there's anything in the world that can give you that feeling. You know, like where you're completely on edge on a moving surface, against bump and wind and whatever else is going on out there. But it's it's, it's almost like you're connected from your head to your to the tips of your fins. Like you are one piece with that board when you're going through it. It's pretty cool.
Matt: Okay, so you're it's, it's more about connection, and you bet you do feel like the centrifugal G force force, right? Yeah, I guess you can't replicate that at all.
Taylor: You can't because there's, you know, how do you replicate that?
Matt: What about skating a bowl? Does that ever feel similar?
Taylor: Yeah. Then in the transitions? Yeah. Like when you're skating a bowl and stuff and you get up high? I would say yeah, you can definitely feel it. That's a comparison. Okay. Sure. Yeah. Because it's a weight transfer bounce thing. And it's also a strengthening, but with Yeah, I guess in skating, you have something that's moving or giving you resistance, but with surfing. It's weird, because it's either the waves moving maybe up against you or away from you, you know, because waves are so different, right? So you get those wedges that are moving beautifully. Right? Coming out? Yeah, like full speed. And then there's other times where you're chasing it laterally down the line. So it's, um, it's very unique sport, man. I think balance stuff is really good, too. You know, maybe on balls and stuff. You can see people when they do push ups on BOSU balls or, you know, stabilization stuff on balls, where there, there's there's tiny shakes going on, you know, they're, they can barely be on top of the ball and all fours, then do a contralateral Superman on on the top of the ball of all fours. And then, you know, you try to stabilize during that stuff. And I think that's, I think that's pretty relevant to surfing.
Matt: Yet Matt said to me something, which stuck to me, which is Matt Griggs, which is the ultimate form of power is finesse.
Taylor: Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah, for sure.
Matt: Okay, so then, how does let you describe to mantain or politan as similar to like pulling G's. Where's the finesse lie?
Taylor: I think the balance of pressure, like thinking about the things in nanoseconds that need to be going through your head as like That's why surfing to me is the most dynamic sport I know like bias. But if you really think about it, and there's a lot of sports in that are dealing with nanoseconds like we all are, but like you've got to calculate like it's all in a feeling and every single surfboard in the world is different. All fins fin angles, the way they glass, the board, the weight, the flex everything going, you have to know that during this turn and on this particular wave and the, you know, you only write one of those in your life because every single wave is different. You've got to know how far to push it in the you get a feeling of the water that in the fins in the board all in one, it's and you're doing that nanoseconds, literally adjusting on the fly with the whole total body movement, you know, from your toes, to your fingers, everything is rotating, and moving and stabilizing. I mean, it's it's pretty nuts, and finesse is controlling all that. And not, you know, if you're a big Husky guy, and you're lighting nimble and small, mushy waves, that's, that's incredible. Like, you know, being a big powerful guy, and just overpowering turns, turns in small waves. It looks kind of diggy. And, you know, it's just, there's the finesse of like, how can you how do you use what you have? In each condition? If you're a small, you know, lighter guy? How do you show power in bigger waves? And if you're a big heavier guy, how do you show lightness, finesse speed in in small, mushy waves? And I think it's I don't think, one, I still might be wrong about this, but big guys can surf incredible in small waves. I believe they just need the right equipment. I don't know if we've come up with that yet.
Matt: We'll let them at Jordan Dane.
Taylor: Yeah, I mean, you know, they're, they're pushing the boundaries right now. You didn't. But before, guys, were just accepting what they were, you know, there was no one that was like, okay. You know, I'm a big, you know, strong guy. And I've, you know, just been told that we're not good and small, small waves. You know, it's kind of like it used to seem and now guys are using. It's just a rewiring of surfers as a total group. They're all learning. We're all learning finesse as we go along. Because you look at the way either the average Joe now or you look at a pro surfer now. And you'd go back to the 70s it's, we're just completely different. Our whole species has changed. And it's all because of this awareness of the body and the mind. Like, it's pretty cool. For me to see it, you know, like, I remember, back when I was a kid and what it was like, and seen it now like, Wow, there's so much change, not only in just pro surfing, but in, in so many ways. Even the average guy
Matt: We have so much the boards are better than wetsuits are better.
Taylor: Yeah,
Matt: There's more coaching going on. You can buy a video and goodbye video camera now. It's so cheap.
Taylor: Yeah, it's it's, it's incredible. It's cool. You know, you see what the guys are doing out there? Like John John yesterday, and is he and today fleet did the craziest backside air is just that kind of stuff before it would have just been thought impossible.
Matt: Yeah, I like the way you describe the feeling of doing a power turn, like the whole body is connected.
Taylor: Yeah, you don't, you're not separated, you don't you know, there's times where you go out and you're on a board and you're just like, I don't like this board. I'm not feeling it, you know, it's just, it's just not the right board for me or whatever. And it's kind of like you're fighting it on the wave. And, you know, when you're fighting a board, it takes away from your awareness of the wave. And then there's times where you're just connected on all levels. Like, doesn't matter if it's a single fin. It's, you know, you know, the board, you love the board and you know how to surf it. That's why you can go like, single fin and one session a thruster and the next. And both can be amazing, because you know, the feeling of those boards, and you're connected to them. When you have that connection to the right board, and you're in the right space. It just doesn't feel like there's anything you can't do. You know, everything slows down like the game slows down when you're when you have that feeling and that's when you see those like magic sessions. You can see him on film. You know, you look at Tom Curren at J bay that, you know, epic segment, he had the first search movie or whatever and he was feeling it is you just see it. It was the first time he ever surfed that wave. And he tore it to pieces like no one's ever done. How do you do that? When you've never even surf the wave? You know, there's just a feeling there's a connection that surfers have. And I think that's where people get addicted to it. Because there's its mind body and soul and spirit that goes in your connection with that ocean. You know, it's just energy, your energy and waves are energy and you know, when you're going and working with energy in that way. I feel like you know, it's blissful.
Matt: Yeah, If you were surfing your favourite break on your favourite board with a group of friends, would you surf differently then? Or same scenario but you're being filmed for an edit?
Taylor: That's a good question. That's a really good question. I'm glad you asked me that. I would, I would be surfing the same. You know, I love to push my surfing all the time, even when I'm with my friends just because it's fun to show them as well. Like, hey, man, we grew up together. Remember, we play at the beach, we be surfing together, like all kids in this, like, Thanks for supporting me. And this is, you know, this is what this is why I keep doing it and, and show them like just kind of a thanks of like, Hey, man, I'm doing this because you were there in the beginning with me and helping me and encouraging me to do it. And so I and you've kind of like, your friends push you even friends that aren't pro surfers, or never were, it's like, it's fun, because you connect to that feeling of when you were competing maybe against him in high school, or, you know, just your after school little contest with yourselves used to run heats with people. And it brings out that really good for me a really good fun feeling. You know, just the fun you that we had as kids and what surfing meant to us. Yeah,
Matt: I guess the question I have around that is sometimes I wonder, like if we if we're watching a surfeit. And we see a turn that is beautiful to watch and looks amazing. And then when you watch that same turn yourself, does it relay the same feeling that you get? Like you were describing the feeling of that turn before?
Taylor: Yeah, because I can remember those turns. I mean, I can remember turns from 20 years ago.
Matt: So does that. If you think of the best turn in a session, does it it think of a turn in a session that feels the best felt the most connected? The most GeForce? Is that the one that looks the best on film?
Taylor: Um, usually, yeah, usually, there's times where you're like, God, I went in I, you know, I really put some leverage on that turn it but I'm not sure how it's gonna look, because I kind of got caught in the in or dug a little reality. And sometimes you're kind of like, not sure if that's couldn't look bad, because I overpowered it. Within, there's times where you do it right. And you just know, you don't even need to look at the film, you just you just know, like, sometimes when it's that good, it's like, you know what, I don't even want to see it until it's actually you've added it into the movie, because I already know, that's sick. I want to, I want to stay with that feeling before I see it. Because a lot of times for me, when I see it, I start judging it. You know, like what I could have done better. And that's, you know, that's just something that I've been working on, it's to not be so critical.
Matt: How do you recreate that feeling over and over again? Where does consistency come from?
Taylor: I think it's the just the love of speed, the speed you can get on ways, you know, obviously, being in the tube is like the ultimate for a surfer. But just the speed, I love being on a big, bigger wave and open face. And just because I love going, I want to go as fast as I humanly can and turn as hard as I humanly can. That's kind of like what I like to do in my surfing and you just don't have the waves to do that a lot. So, when it happens, it's really special. It keeps you you know, maybe if I had it on tape every day, I wouldn't enjoy it as much. You know, I don't mind like the grind of going to the gym and just training on the days that it's always are crappy and blown out and small. Because it's always worth it to go on those trips. When it does happen. You know, it's like, it's like this. It fills up your bank for a while. You go on a good trip and you're like, oh, man, I could not surf for the next month because that was such a good trip and I had so much fun. Yeah.
Matt: Okay, so that looking forward to, to those sessions keeps you in the gym, keeping strong and physically ready for those?
Taylor: Yeah, it doesn't take my size. It's really not much for me, you know, like, a couple trips a year few good sessions, you know, and that'll keep me in the gym and working hard, because I don't I'm glad it doesn't happen. It's not that easy. You know, just because you have to learn how to work for things, you know, and I, I've always been that way my parents are that way we're blue collar or work hard people and, and we, it's not like we need the big castle on the hill or anything. It's, we're but we're, we're stoked when we get it, you know, we're stoked. And, and there's all those great experiences like this that cliché is, it's not about the destination, it's the journey, the journey is rad. I'm totally into the journey, you know, like, injuries I've had so many of my career, it's, I used to get really bummed out now. It's just like, alright, this is fun. Let's, let's find a way to solve this and share it with other people. Yeah, it's it's really cool being around those like-minded people like that. Because it's sharing, you know, you're sharing you want to help? What if Tom Carroll is doing something to help his knee? Then he tells me or if I'm do something I tell him? And yeah, it's cool.
Matt: So I watched your, the why five and apply pressure. And I think you've gotten better. How does that work? Was most people think once you hit, you know, mid 30s? It's yeah, that's it physically you maintain it if you're lucky, but I actually think you've improved, like, especially in terms of your flow in between turns, you look more relaxed.
Taylor: I am, I had a bit of tension to work out, like I was saying it, the more I tried to work it out physically, whether it was like getting massages, or like, yoga, it just, there was this tension. And it was all due to, you know, having compartments and stuff that like I just never dealt with, or I put I like pushed down or
Matt: What do you mean by compartment?
Taylor: Like issues, stuff that had happened in your life that you you just moved on from? You didn't really deal with it, you know, you just kind of like distracted yourself with something else. And you stuffed it down and move on with life.
Matt: Yeah, but how does that? How does it affect one surfing?
Taylor: Well, I because when you have mental tension, you have physical tension. And there was a lot of like, uncertainty of, you know, like, I knew what I wanted to do with at the end of my career, which was be a free surfer and do surf trips. And, you know, I was kind of like, told that if I did that, then my salary is going to cut. So I was on tour for another couple years when I didn't really want to be there. And I felt a little bit just tight. You know, like I, I knew I could surf better than I was surfing. And so started working, you know, just taking some time to do be by myself every morning to kind of just clear my mind, do my meditation. And there was an opportunity to go with another sponsor, which I did, which was awesome. And they were totally supportive of me being a free surfer. And which is reef, and I just felt like this weight had been lifted off my shoulders, like literally physically, like I felt better, looser, stronger. All sudden, I just gained like, all this. I don't know, like, I would call it strength, physically, but it was like, I gained this freedom inside. And I was like, this feels natural. To me, this feels like what I've wanted to do for so long. You know, as far as like bringing out my best surfing,
Matt: I was always a better way better surfer than I was a competitor. You know, like, I'd love the tour. And I enjoy. I mean, I'm so fortunate that I was able to do it. And I loved it when I did it for them all the way for majority of it. And there was just a point in time and
Taylor: You know, my life where I was, like, God, I really got to do this other projects like Wi Fi and apply pressure, and I got to just go free surf, because I don't feel like I'm doing myself justice on this tour anymore. You know, and I don't feel like people can actually see the type of surfing that I can do on this tour anymore. Because if I didn't make the final or make a lot of heats and you know, you see a lot of me or, or and I was in a heat when you're in a heat. I just felt like I was a law always a little tighter and a heat for sure. You know, so yeah, just getting off tour and being able to relax and losing some or dealing with some of the the issues that need to be dealt with compartments, what we call them, you know, issues, whatever you want to call them. But yeah, just getting through some working out some of those and losing some of those which felt great and more freedom. And it was just like, whoa, my, I felt my physical body start to pick, it was like picking up steam. It was uh, it was interesting. It still does actually, like, now I feel like I'm stronger and better and fitter than I've ever been, besides having, you know, a little bone spur that I got to take get taken off next week, but I feel like I'm gonna come back from this and be better than Wi Fi or apply pressure. It's just crazy. But I mean, I don't really know how to put it into words, but it has to do with just being more present in the moment. You know, a lot of times I was living of, if I could just get here or if I could just do that then you know.
Matt: So that was creeping in Could just if maybe, but If only all that stuff was creeping into your surfing.
Taylor: Yeah, or Yeah, totally.
Matt: So you got an issue that isn't hasn't been dealt with in just a real life. And yeah, it creeps into the surfing life and slows you down creates tension. Is that what it feels like?
Taylor: Yeah, a little bit, you know, because you mean, if you have things that you, you know, experience in life, and maybe it was trauma, maybe it was a bad breakup, maybe it was being pissed about, you know, someone or something in your life and you, you kind of just get distract you distract yourself with your career or whatever, just move forward, don't do that. I feel like eventually, all that stuff kind of comes back like a scorpion and hitch in the back of their head at some point, you know, like, you just don't get out of, like, get out of this whole thing free, like, you got to deal with some shit. And I felt like, you know, there was a time where you during my career, which was really hard to stay on tour and be dealing with a lot of stuff that I was dealing with it. I mean, no one knew at the time, but like, personally, I was, you know, I was dealing with some stuff. And yeah, it was just hard to even qualify for the tour some days, but I knew I was like, You know what, I can't, I can't, I got to deal with this now. Like, it's not I have nowhere to go. Now. It's like surfaced. And it needs to be dealt with because it's dragging me down. And either I can deal with it, and move forward and hopefully stay on tour and have a good career. Or I cannot deal with it. And my crews probably gonna be overs real soon. So I was learning how to deal with some issues and stuff that were coming up and kind of like on the fly. As I was doing my career. No one knew that. I mean, you know, my mentor knew that but that was about it. Ron Rathbun.
Matt: Okay, that's the Keeley meditation.
Taylor: Yeah, yeah. And the mentor teacher, I don't know. He's my friend. I just call him a friend.
Matt: But like, are you saying that meditation helped you deal with your issues and dealing with the issues helped you to get into the zone when you're surfing more?
Taylor: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I don't. I know, for a fact my career would have been over had maybe a decade ago. It was funny, because like, you know, a lot of people ask me about the Mexico contest, the bar event, the search that they had down in that point break we got, and you know, that right at that time, I was think I was gonna retire that year. And that was like 12-13 years ago. You know, I was ready to like, call it quits. I was just bored of the tour. And like, I was done. And, you know, and then I found this love, again, looks like it connected to this feeling that I had back when I was a kid when why I started surfing, somewhere along line, in my career and in my life. And what was there's so much that happened in my 20s and stuff that I kind of lost that connection to that feeling. And then you know, doing the Keeley meditation, taking time to myself and learning more about myself, I got back in touch with that feeling again. And then I was like, and now I'm just this like, stoked rom again, it's been really cool. It's like having a lot of like, imagine your head is like a closet. And over the years, you accumulate stuff. And those are boxes, or let's say you accumulate boxes, you put it in the closet, those boxes, or maybe, you know, a bad breakup, ex marriage, you know, like a bad business deal. A few injuries in there, every every everything has a box, and then the closet gets too full. And, you know, that's kind of how I explained it. And I started cleaning the closet out, taking those boxes out and having them disappear. And that's kind of the best way I can explain it.
Matt: It's a tricky thing to talk about, isn't it? Meditation, because it's a really tricky thing,
Taylor: Because there's a lot of woowoo goofy kid out there, man. That's really new eight, like I was an anti-new age guy. Up until the day I even met Ron, I went to yoga did yoga, strictly almost every day it becomes yoga. During started in like 93. And yeah, sometimes I would do it seven days a week. So I was really into yoga. I did not find anything spiritual about it. I felt like it was just a stretching class, you know? And plus I was very anti-New Age, kind of that whole genre of stuff. And so, when I started going through some hard times in my, in my late 20s, you know, I was hanging out with Brad Gerlach. And he was, he was like, hey, man, you should go and, you know, meet my friend about meditation. And I had this idea in my head, what meditation was, you know, from being around yoga, and I was thinking, Oh, God, they're gonna start chanting, and they're gonna be wearing red robes, you know, like, I'm not into that. I'm not. And so, so I was like, not for like, a year, I told no, now I'm not going. And then finally, I got to a point where I was like, Okay, what I'm doing isn't working. Like I'm miserable. I'm unhappy. And I have no idea why. And I don't even know how to get out of it. And so I was like, Fine, you know, I'm gonna go meet him. And I walked in, I was like, expecting this guy there with a bald head with a red robe on and now he's just wearing Levi's, and a surfer’s t shirt. And I'm like, alright, what is okay, let's see what this is all about. And he sat me down, he ran me through the practice, you know, did meditation for about 10 minutes, we chatted about some stuff, he explained the practice. And I was like, wow, that makes sense. Like it was, it just normally makes sense. I, I don't have to change who I am. I don't have to become a vegan, I, you know, I don't have to change, you know, wear red robes or chant or anything like that. And I don't have to belong to anything, you know, it's not a cold, it's not a religion. And you just got to look at yourself. This is like, um, like, he's mapped the mind a really, he has a really good map of the mind on how to get deeper in in the mind and not change, like who you are, which I found really related to me, because you know, what I grew up. I was born and raised in Southern California. And this is where I grew up. And this is my culture. I was not born in India, I'm not Indian. That's not my culture. You know, it's a beautiful culture. And it's, they have lovely ways about them. And they have some great stuff. And but the reality is, I was born here, and this is my culture. And so I don't want to fit into try to fit into another culture that I'm not from. I just want to be the best me. And that's pretty much how I summon up. I just want to be the best me.
Matt: Okay, so the word meditation, like I said, has connotations of woowoo. And no Yogi's and breathing, etc. How do you describe meditation?
Taylor: Looking in looking inside. Yeah, quiet, getting to get into a quiet place. With no thought and having life come to you.
Matt: So more awareness of the present moment? Is that part of it?
Taylor: Absolutely. For sure. That's part of it. I mean, we were talking earlier about awareness of your body. Yeah. You know, I mean, when you have the the body follows the mind. So I think it's a good idea to start there. And the body will come around to whatever your mind will take it. Your mind can take it down, or your body or your mind could take it up. Or you can just kind of cruise along in the middle. Huh.
Matt: Yeah, I mean, we can all see if someone's stressed, we see it in their physical body. Right?
Yeah. But I mean, with all our technology and all the smart people in the world, we still don't have a test that will read that. You know, we have MRIs and X rays and all kinds of electrodes that we can hook up. They still can't read that. But we all know it's there. We all see it, we all have it.
Matt: So some of that, that tension, that stress, which is usually catastrophizing about the future or reminiscing on something bad in the past. That's where most stress comes from. That was coming into your surfing and creating tension?
Taylor: For sure. Yeah, I mean, I could see it because I would, I would say to my coach sometimes like, God there I feel like I can't unlock like, there's another 20% in there and I just can't unlock it. Okay, knew it was there that I get flashes sometimes. But I just couldn't access it. In I really, on a physical side of things, tried everything. You know, like everything I could think of into Rolfing I do. Yoga, I would work out in the gym until I was blue, like, blacked out like it wasn't. What I didn't realize is that wasn't for lack of trying. That's what I needed to turn down. What I wasn't doing was looking inside myself that, you know, some of the looking at my life experience, look how I was living, where my mind was at when I woke up in the morning, where, you know, how, where were where my mind was at when I was out surfing, or with dealing with life. So there was a lot, there was a lot for me to look at. And there still is, I mean that that's never gonna stop. But I'm really happy. I'm in a much better place than ever was.
Matt: So the closet analogy is when you begin starting to meditate, the the big boxes come out first, but there's an infinite amount of small boxes and clutter.
Taylor: There will no Yeah, I wish the big boxes, big boxes came out first that you just don't know what you know what you're gonna uncover about yourself. It's like an onion, you know, but people will do anything not to look at themselves. They'll distract themselves all day until they conk out on their pillow. And then the minute their alarm goes off, they're straight up thinking about what they got to do that day. Or when it needs to get done or like, they can't take even 10 minutes to do that.
Matt: I'm interested to know what like you can you can remember before you started meditating, and then about how you used to like you just described, they're up in their head, they're thinking about all the stuff. What's the difference now, like, stuff in life happens that you, there's always there's always a good excuse to start thinking about all of that stuff. So what's different now? Why don't you?
Taylor: I just, I feel more at ease where I'm at, like, I used to get FOMO really bad. You know, like, if I heard the waves were good. And you know, I don't know, up north and I wasn't up north and I wanted to be up north, it would like ruin the day I was having down here.
Matt: Okay, so it's a good example. So you're here. You have to deal with life here. This is where I need or I just can't get up there. Yeah. But your mind is thinking about somewhere else.
Taylor: Right.
Matt: So then that takes away that mental energy, thinking about other ways that good in Santa Cruz is taking away from your awareness of the present moment?
Taylor: Absolutely. I mean, think about it. Everything is energy. Thoughts are an energy. There's, they've proven that right with the brain electrodes and all that kind of thing. And so you're you can really use and expend a ton amount of energy based on your thoughts. Now, if I'm, if I'm just if I'm down here in San Diego, and I'm like, Wow, I'm so bummed I'm not in Santa Cruz got, you know, like, I'm driving around down in San Diego, I'm just in a bad mood, or, you know, I feel like, you know, that, I'm bummed out that I should I'm not up there. It's like, I've just missed like all these beautiful moments where I'm at San Diego probably didn't even notice that, you know, there's a beautiful sunset going on. I'm stressed because I'm not up there. Now, I'm like, Wow, I'm so stoked for those guys up there to get such good waves in like, completely detached from missing out. And I'm so much lighter for I feel lighter. You know, there's a lighter feeling when you're just, you're happy for those guys to get it. Instead of thinking, Oh, you're blowing up for not being up there. That's where I used to be, I'd be like, oh, you know, you're blowing it for not being being there. And here and there. And like you'll even when you I used to do that I didn't realize at the time that I was driving myself crazy. Even though I was getting to all these places. I wasn't enjoying them, I should have been doing half of them half of that many and enjoying them more. That's where I'm at now. And that's why I think my surfing is become better is because I feel like I enjoy it a lot more. I don't have FOMO of not being somewhere because I just can't get there, whatever. I'm just I'm really appreciative of where I am, wherever that may be. And I think appreciate the word appreciation. It's gotten a lot better and more entrenched in my life because of the meditation.
Matt: Yeah, interesting. So let me throw it back to you. And let's see if I've, I'm thinking about it correctly as to what you're saying is if there's a part of the brain that is aware of a bunch of stuff, there's kind of like we all can imagine it's kind of feels like it's behind our eyes. It's like the centre of us kind of thing. That single point whatever you want to call it conscious awareness that there's there's a little bit of freewill there as to and isn't do we choose to be aware of all of the chatter going on in our brains or the self-talk all the thinking about should have done that I should be doing this.
Taylor: Those are compartments.
Matt: Yeah, okay, that's that so that would be the upper compartment.
Taylor: Yeah, it'd be in your in your brain is like what we call the lesser Keeley.
Matt: Yeah, so in neurology, we would call that the cortex. Right?
Taylor: Right. There's all your you know, your intelligence, right decision making and self-talk, language, all that stuff is in your cortex, which is sort of above the midbrain,
Matt: Right.
Taylor: But then the centre part of your, of your brain can all also be aware of what's going on, underneath, down in neurology, what we call the brainstem or the in the midbrain, which is, that's where all your body awareness, all your vision, your hearing your balance, your proprioception, that's where all that stuff comes in. And that's your brain is always making decisions about what to do very quickly about all that stuff. So that's kind of closer to the present moment is that, and we're trying to focus on that rather than all of the self-talk and stuff going on in the upper brain or the cortex,
Matt: Right that we're looking at. I'm probably looking at it a little bit less biology, what the ways that you are, like the way out when your cortex of the brain and stuff.
Taylor: I'm talking more about how you were you're feeling stuff.
Matt: Yeah.
Taylor: So you have the lesser Keela, which the brain is a receptor. It's not supposed to be a collector.
Matt: I like that. Yeah.
Taylor: So we collect things in our lights. The analogy was the closet, you know, stuff gets stored up there, and it piles up. And then there is how do you describe, when you haven't seen a really good friend in a long time, you know, some of that you, you really like and enjoy being around and then you see him after not seeing for a couple of years, and you get that feeling it wells up. From down below, it comes up. So that's where I'm, that's where I'm starting to live more from and that feels better. For me. That's what I mean. And being in the present is, is like living more from your heart says, I don't think you'll ever regret a decision in life if you make it from your heart. Now you can make decisions from your head, you can overanalyse stuff, like, Should I do this or not do this? Should I not? You know, do this with this person or not, you know? And then there's those, you those knowing feelings where you you're like, Nope, you get that feeling that didn't come from your head, but you know exactly what you want to do. And you don't you don't think about it twice. You're just like, it's a knowing. And those two things, those two are different places they can you know, and so I guess I don't know, and biology terms when all this stuff, body parts are called. But I know when I get that feeling that wells up from, I've seen an old friend I haven't seen or if there's a big decision in my life, like, are we going to move or not move? And then one day you wake up and you're driving in the car not thinking about anything? And you know, no, I know exactly what I know. I want to move. And I know, it's the right decision for us. It's like, it's like you just absolutely know 100%. The day before you were over analysing. You're doing pros and cons a live in here and live in there. And then for some reason it hits you like a brick. You're like now I know absolutely. What I want to do.
Matt: Hmm. So feels like instinct like,
Taylor: Right.
Matt: I mean, a lot of people call that gut feeling.
Taylor: Yeah
Matt: Yeah. So, I mean, in life as being a human being, we're gonna have sadness, it's part of being human, we're things are gonna go our way. You know, that's part of being human.
Taylor: And we're gonna have to make tough decisions sometimes sometimes that other people aren't gonna like, like, see, you have a really bad employee that isn't working out, you know, and, but you like the person and you're like, oh, man, you know, like, I hate firing this person. You know, I like him as a person. But deep down, you know, it's the right decision. So it's not, it doesn't end up being a regret. But sometimes when you make decisions from the brain, you can make a decision based off of their reaction. So you react right away to their reaction. And it's like a hasty decision to you know, how you're fired. You're out of here, and then later on, you're like, oh, I shouldn't have done that. So that's what you mean. I don't think you ever will make a decision that you regret from your heart or your gut or wherever you want to call it down there, which we call the greater Keeley. And then there's the, you know, we obviously need to use our brain every single day on this planet. And I feel like that works more efficiently as well, when you clear out some of those boxes in your closet.
55:50
Matt: Hmm. Interesting. So if we bring it back to surfing a and the way you're surfing now compared to how you were 10 years ago, are you? Are you surfing more from your heart from the testing,
Taylor: Yeah like, it's funny because I surf less now to, like, I'm not practicing as much as I was on tour, like, you know, I think you get to a point, especially how long I've been surfing, where I don't need to go out on every one foot blown out day, like I used to when I was a kid, because when you're a kid, you need to practice, you know, you need to get those motor skills tuned in and refined. But at this point, I know I mean, I cannot surf for a week, and then go out and have a good session. You know, because the, the muscle memories there and the and I can quickly connect to a feeling and do pretty big turns right away. Like, even if I didn't surfer for a week or two. Because I know now my connection to that feeling is a lot quicker and a lot closer than it used to be. I used to have all these compartments where like, you know, I had to surf every single day no matter what, even when I didn't want to surf, I would make myself surf. And those were the times, you know, I was actually holding myself back, but I was the old training programs I used to have was, No, you need to surf every day. You know, like, no matter what you need to surf every day. And I wish I would have let go some of those earlier my career. But it's fine. You know, everything happens for a reason.
Matt: Okay. So some meditation has helped you to be more relaxed and surfing from your heart and from your instincts in the water.
Taylor: Mm hmm.
Matt: And that's what, and that's why your surfing is looking smoother and more relaxed.
Taylor: Oh, yeah. I mean, the training, the physical part is like 20% To me, you know?
Matt: Do you go deeper into flow states? Do you hit the zone? More often? Does time slowed down more now? Yes. You feel like you have more time on?
Taylor: Yes. Because I've had, you know, you're not the only person in recently, last couple years who said that? I think you're surfing better now than you were on tour. And, you know, everyone's like asking me, Susan, a lot of guys that, you know, tons of guy 1000s at surf and they're in their 40s. Like, what are you doing? Yeah, what do you How are you training. And I tell them how I train in the gym, of course, and all that and it's, it's wonderful. It's great. I love it. And but they don't realize it's how much of your tension is coming from your compartments. You know, and you can, I've done all that before I've done I've gotten a massage every other day. And I'm thinking that was going to take the tension, I've done all that. And I'm beyond that I'm past that now. Like, I learned really what was going on. And that's the secret, you know, because I can get in that flow pretty quickly now, way quicker than I was in the prime of my competitive career. like night and day quicker. And I'm just flowing, and I'm not letting things get to me like they used to get to me. You know, sometimes you're out in the water, like, oh, man, you know, that guy just paddled around me or, you know, it was that that wave should have been mine that can eat up, you know, get on your head eat you up inside like this, I let that stuff go now. You know, I'm just, I'm free or for it. I'll take the third wave of the sound, you know, I mean, like, it's become a lot. I've just come it's more enjoyable for me to be that way than to be like, digging my heels in, like, let's fight for every wave, you know, or hold your ground. Like, there's a time Yeah, where you gotta hold your ground. But there's a lot of little stuff, you could probably let go and let go and a lot of that little things that can eat at you while you're out surfing in a session. You know, like I'm i Easy. easily get past those. Those kinds of things now.
Matt: Okay, well, this is great insight into how your surfing got better as you got older.
Taylor: Yeah, it really wasn't. And the funny thing is, I feel stronger physically. I feel like my body I feel like my awareness of my body is way better. And we were talking about DNS earlier because I've been getting into DNS, and I've been doing it for a few months now. And when they told me how they trained over in Prague, because I guess you get to be a teacher. You got to go to their school and Prague and live there. But it was interesting. They were they go in in the morning, they trained for half an hour. Then they go back to their hotel, and then they come back at lunch and they train for half an hour. They go back to hotel, and then they come back in the afternoon train for half an hour. And that's, that's how they, that's how they're training. It's like, do it do a certain exercise, you know, get it down to you, you got it perfect. And I'm not like a DNS expert by any means, and I'm not speaking for them. But um, the way that I was explained to me is like, you do it until you do it. Perfect. And then you stop. I love hearing how it just opened my mind to a whole another, you know, it's, it's nice to have the awareness to go into the gym, and be able to, like, understand on a deeper level, what they're talking about, and what they want me to do. I feel like I pick up things faster. It's like, I can actually feel my body way better now than I ever could. When I was 28 years old. It's just overall awareness, right? Life, nature, your body like its awareness has. So is it 360 degrees of sides. It's not just like, awareness in physical or just just awareness in the surfing. It's just overall awareness on everything.
Matt: I think people got an idea of how effects you're surfing and the physical body, but I'm guessing that this the greater awareness and the more detailed awareness of the present moment affects all parts of your life,
Taylor: For sure, absolutely. I mean, how many? You know, there's the there's a story that we all see in the news about maybe this athlete, you know, he's, he's just, he's lost it, and you're looking at me going I look physically fine. You know, it looks like a big strong, why. And you just don't know the backstory, what's going on at home or in his life, like, and you're like, you know, a lot of times you're like, damn, I wish I I wish I had that physique. You know, you know what I could do with that? You know what I mean? Like, but no, it's it's, um, it's just interesting. You I think every human being obviously has a backstory. And that's the one that you need to get to make sure isn't doesn't come back to haunt. Yeah. Yeah.
Matt: Yeah, you think of like, what? What is it that knocks Tiger Woods off? Right under one position? It wasn't his physical body, oh, this technique was stuff that he was
Taylor: Stuff that was going on, that was finally it caught up to him, you know? So, and he's kind of coming back now. So maybe he's beyond it. He's dealt with some of those things that caught up to him where it's kind of like when you're sailing on a boat to me and I always use this analogy of like, you're sailing into this beautiful sunset. But you didn't look behind you and there's this huge storm bearing down on you just have no idea because you just never looked back. So you've to me it's like you've got to have 360 degrees of awareness can always just be living and looking to the future
Matt: Okay, I'm sure there's a lot of people are interested to learn more about Keeley whether they go
Taylor: Yeah, Ron's got a website, the keeley.org. He's got maybe two websites once for the doctors more of a medical side of things, because they're, they're teaching it down at UCSD med school. And there's a group of doctors down there about I think there's about 12 Yeah, one's a cardiologist and others. Is helps a lot with HIV. Anyway.
Matt: Okay, well, I'll put some links in the show notes for that. Anyway.
Taylor: Yeah, there's so he's got a couple websites, and he has about seven books or eight books out. Wow. So yeah, there's an you can find those on Amazon and on any, I'm sure. Other book sites, you know,
Matt: I’ve been doing this podcast for two and a half years now. And I've met a lot of pros and ex pros and surf coaches and, and all these different techniques and ways to approach a wave. And now what I'm finding is like, I've got all the information that but I don't have I can't time doesn't slow down enough for me to practice these. Right, these all these different techniques I have,
Taylor: Right
Matt: So now I'm going okay, and if I want to take my surfing to the next level, I got to relax.
Taylor: Yeah,
Matt: Times got to slow down more because that's what every time I watch it's hard to see it when you watch them on TV because it's just what we're used to but when you see a really good surfer in real life, it's just you just gobsmacked Yeah, time they they have all the time in the world yet they're going as fast faster than you can imagine. That's
Taylor: Yeah, it's all just Have it's a connection, you know, and, and if you're out surfing, and you're, you just got in a fight with your wife. And that's all you could think about is, you know, is your argument you had with your wife, probably surfing it about what 30% or something, you know, like, everything is thrown off, you just if you're just off, and so you're not living in the moment.
Matt: So meditation in that situation, meditation would firstly help you to focus on the wave and ignore that outside of surface shoe. But more importantly, you would have avoided that issue happening in the first place, because you would have had more awareness during whatever argument you had.
Taylor: Right? Exactly. That's why I mean, everybody makes a big deal about hindsight, hindsight, means that you've probably already suffered. You know, foresight is so much better. That means you avoided the problem before you got into it. But humans have a real, they learned through suffering, they experienced something. It worked out horribly. And then hopefully, after the first time they learned from it, hopefully, they had hindsight. But if you have foresight, you don't even you don't need you don't encounter that.
Matt: Is it foresight. Now, now I'm confused. Because foresight makes me think of, you're trying to predict something. Now sight?
Taylor: No, it's not a prediction. It's more like, you trust your gut feeling today, you're like, you know what? My gut feeling says that I shouldn't get into business with this guy. You know,
Matt: Even though the numbers add,
Taylor: Exactly. So that brains telling you, oh, the numbers are there. And he's rich, and he's got the backing. And you know, he's got these connections, but your gut feeling saying something shady, and I don't like it. And but you don't trust the gut feeling. And you go ahead and do it. And it's great for several years, and you know, you're making all this money and everything's good. And all sudden, you guys have a bad breakup. And it goes into a complete nightmare, because you didn't have the foresight to see, or you didn't trust your foresight. And, and so, you know, that's, and then I would say, you, when you when you were talking about being in the water and having a fight with your spouse, or you know, and it's, you're still thinking about it in the water. It's not like you're not, you know, being present is like, look, that happened, for whatever reason. But now I'm in the water surfing, like, this is, this is where I'm at, I can't be anywhere else I'm in, why can't I enjoy it? Because you couldn't detach from the argument you just had. And a detachment and separation are totally opposite. I would never recommend being separated from life. You never want to be separated. But detachment is just being where you are. Like, yeah, that argument happened. It was a bummer. But now I'm out surfing, why not enjoy it? Was it mean I can enjoy? Should I not? Should I not? Should I feel bad? Wherever I go now because of that argument? Or should I just you can still enjoy where you are. And, and you know, there? I'm sure you'll you'll get back to that argument later. Or, you know, resolve it later. You'll talk it out or work it out. But for that moment, you're out surfing
Matt: it's good attitude. Yeah, make sense?
Taylor: You know, and then it's always amazing. You hear some people get they almost get mad that you had fun. You know, like, oh my god, I can't believe you're just out enjoying yourself surfing like, well, yeah, that's why we surf kind of got there. Otherwise, why even paddle out? Like, like your I have like my limbs. I have my health. You know why? Why would I enjoy it? Because I mean, I just went with a foundation last weekend called one more wave. It's was started by some Navy Seals. And they take that surfing that have lost her legs or maybe had some post-traumatic stress and guys that are struggling a little bit and we took him out surfing at a wave pool and got him into these amazing waves. And it was awesome experience. You know, the guy that I was helping, he had no legs and I was you know, we were riding weight. We probably caught like 30 waves together. And he never caught a wave in his life. He's from Georgia. And it was awesome. It was just, it made me think like, you know what, while I have this body, I'm trying to keep it in one piece as good as I can. I'm going to go out and enjoy. Every time I can go out and enjoy something in nature. I'm going to do it, you know, or not every time but it's but when I am out there I'm really going to enjoy it. You know? Because and you can't take it for granted. It doesn't mean overdo it. But just you know, take your time, obviously, the body needs rest, super important. In fact, a new study just came out, I believe that a friend of mine was telling me about how how important sleep is like the guy. I'll get the study for you. But he is a scientist
Matt: And the guy Joe Rogan just interviewed.
Taylor: Yeah, I think so. Yes. Yeah. He was telling you about that. How that one yeah. How important sleep was. So a lot of I was the guy that would go to yoga in the morning, for two hours. And then I'd work out in the gym for two hours, and then was surf for two hours. And I would do that for years, you know. But I learned I was just burning myself out. You know, and I think now that's why my body feels stronger than it's ever felt because I rest more. And but when I'm in the gym, and I'm doing it, I feel more focused than I ever was. And I don't feel like I need to do as much. It's more like, I just need to get to the point of like, you know, you do, you'll do that one rep, right? Like, well, I just did it perfect. And I just, I'm like focused on connecting to that feeling. I'm not focused on doing 20 more.
Matt: I like that brings it back to that feeling of connection through the power turn.
Taylor: Right
Matt: Feeling of the perfect rep or holding that position perfectly for
Taylor: And it makes it and when you do when you are in that feeling sense. Everything's easier. Like the sports they always talk about. The game slows down for that guy, you know, Tom Brady, Tom Brady or whoever. And then you see another quarterback. You're like, God, he's got even a better arm than Tom Brady. But he's so anti-back there. He's, you know, the game is speeding up on him. Even though it's going the same exact pace as it was for Tom Brady. No one's running any slower for him. But for this guy, it's like they're running at 200 miles an hour.
Matt: When Winston itself trip
Taylor: I really am focused on getting the South Africa's summer. I missed it. I've been there in a couple years and that's probably gonna hopefully be in July. You know, late July. Yeah. So that's kind of like what I'm shooting for. Then I have a trip to the Maldives. With Matt Griggs, we got these really nice boats. It's a five star boat trip where we teach the meditate Keeley meditation and coach them on surfing and surfing technique. We have someone there to film some. And we'll do the meditation with them once a day and you're going to be awesome food and an incredible boat and traveling around. So looking forward to that too
Matt: You two, as to that trip last year.
Taylor: Yeah, we did. Yeah, it was incredible. Yeah, we I wouldn't end I'd say we even probably got as far as waves go pretty skunked. But we still had like an amazing time. And we're stuffing, you know, perfect little head high reef breaks and the most beautiful watercolour you've ever seen. So I don't even know how you get skunked there. But I've been there before where I've gotten really good waves. So yeah, I feel like this next trip might be better for waves.
Matt: Yeah. Okay.
Taylor: For just four waves. Yeah,
Matt: Yeah. What are people gonna get out of this trip? Apart from the obvious like improving the surfing being inspired by you and educated by matt and you and like inspiration and education for surfing. But there's more to it than that.
Taylor: Yeah, I think with you know, learning about tequila, like a few of the guys that came last year, had never even done a meditation before. So they were just new to it. And they all walked away just going wow, this is like, we didn't know meditation could be like this, you know? They kind of have, it's easier to stereotype it like I did when you know, before I started, and they just were kind of blown away about how, how much lighter and better and they were feeling stuff that they'd never felt before by just closing their eyes for 10 minutes and trying to have no thought run through your mind. And a lot of the guys were tripped out in a heart. It was like they didn't pay it was always a thought running through their head when they close your eyes. And I think pretty much every human you can say they know what that feels like, you know?
Matt: Yeah, I've always served the honest I haven't done much Keeley meditation. You know, I've read the book and I've tried, but I've always like, I've never had no thought. Is that even?
Taylor: Yeah, that's, that's what Buddha called Big Sky mind or what he meant by that.
Matt: Like is that it almost seems impossible to have no thought.
Taylor: Oh, it's not impossible. I can tell you like
Matt: Okay, so maybe maybe I'm confusing some of my thoughts with feelings? Because there's never going to be nothing is there? Yeah, there's always going to be something
Taylor: No, there's gonna be nothing I can I speak from experience,
Matt: It’s, there's nothing
Taylor: Where I've had, no, I didn't even, I didn't even feel my body, I didn't even like because in our meditation, you don't focus on breathing at all, you don't focus on anything physical, you just sit down in a comfortable, you know, in a comfortable position, whether it's a chair or up against a wall, anyway you want comfortable and preferably with your, you know, spine straight, not like hunched over, but you know, whatever, whatever works for you and, and then, you know, you close your eyes and you feel your energy at the top of your head and you kind of the way I feel it's like a horizontal plane that kind of comes down through both hemispheres of my brain and kind of stopped at my middle self, which is right at eye level. And it stopped there for a little bit. I don't time it or anything, it's more of just a feeling. And then after being there for a few minutes, I just dropped down into my greater, Keeley and I tried to have a feel like you, when you drop down, it's like almost like you feel. You feel like a like a point or like a space, by your heart or in your chest. I do anyway. And I just kind of stay there for as long as I can. Some days are better than others. I mean, I still have bad meditations where I've got all this chatter in my head about, you know, I don't know what I got to do today, or I'm leaving on a trip or, you know, you have your it's like a graph. And there's hills and valleys, but the lines always going up. So even if you have a bad practice, it's still you're moving in the right direction, you sat down for 10 minutes with yourself and your own thoughts. I mean, who's that good for? Only you. You know, you mean? And it's free. It's not like you're paying for this. So it's kind of like, what a lot of people kind of, they don't like to be with their own thoughts. You know, that's why they stay distracted as much as they can. And they're doers that just can't stop doing.
Matt: We're talking about being rather than doing
Taylor: Right. Because in I mean, I've said this a few times, but what I've learned from Ron is that there's what you do in life, and then there's who you are in life. And he would always ask me what's more important? And it always I was like, Yeah, okay, I get it. You know. Thanks for bringing me back with just one little question.
Matt: Yeah, like that.
Taylor: And then it's like, you hear your own, like, you have all the answers, I believe that you're looking for life. I mean, I he's never once told me what to do. He's asked me some really good questions before. And I answered in my own words, and I was like, Oh, I just answered my own question. And then he's like, Yeah, you just, you weren't asking yourself the right question. And it comes, it comes like that, you know, it's kind of like that to me, hundreds of times where else, which I do. And then I, like, I just sit back, I do my practice for a couple days, and then all sudden, it just hit me. I was like, there it is. I let it come to me, like, I contemplated it. And then the right decision, just I don't know. I mean, we've talked about earlier in the interview, like, there's some times in life where there's a decision to be made, and you just know, no matter what, this is the right decision for, for me, or this is for our family. Like, it's undeniable to you, like just a knowing. I don't know how to explain that.
Matt: What you're saying is sometimes we ignore that and we listen to the the excuses and the backstory and the what ifs and buts rather than trusting that.
Taylor: Yeah. I mean, it's it let's, let's hypothetically say that there was two different ways you could have gone in business, but there's two guys offering you a business deal, right? And in one guy, let's say, and they both ended up being successful. One guy goes on and he makes $100 million. And you could have been a part of that. But he is a kind of a jerk and someone that you didn't really want to deal with on a day to day basis. And then you trust your gut and you go with a guy and he goes on and his business goes 50 million half as much, but you've been happy the whole time you like working with him? Like is like where do you put your value? You know, a lot of people are, they go for the, you know the carrot, and then they get there and there's like, it didn't mean much to him that if they're alone, there's no one to share it with because they to get to that point they had to be a jerk to do it. I'd rather just be like, you know, not the best but enjoy it the most. And then it's funny because then my best comes out when I'm enjoying life the most is when my best comes out.
Matt: What's what's next then? You're working on more edits?
Taylor: Yeah, yeah, that's gonna be my focus now. So once my knees better in about a month, I'm going to start surfing in a lot. And I'm so excited to get back out there. Because I feel like in the last several months, I've been surfing in some pain. So I'm really been surfing this is like I wanted to you know, so I'm really excited to get back out and put another edit out and try some. I've got a couple ideas. I don't want to give them away yet, but it is I have and I'm actually working on maybe fictional movie that I can't really say the title of right now. But
Matt: Cool.
Taylor: Yeah, I'm excited for that as well. Right? Yeah, from a pretty big time director. We also just came out with the Mike and Jeff Zimbalist, who are documentary movie makers. They've done a lot of the 34-30 documentaries on ESPN. And they just came out with a movie on our momentum generation. So it's a documentary. Yeah.
Matt: Oh, you have seen all the photos that you guys are getting?
Taylor: Yeah, yeah. So we went back to New York a couple weeks ago and in salt at Tribeca. And so that's going to be hitting the streets probably this summer. And it's, it's good. It's really good. I think you'll enjoy it. I think people really like it. Yeah.
Matt: Yeah. Cool. Maybe one more question.
Taylor: Sure.
Matt: If, if you were limited to surfing here in California, and you were limited to only three surfboards? What three surfboards? Would they be?
Taylor: Well, I'd have to go with like a six’o squash, high performance board. For sure. You know, when that I could ride and surf that's a few feet of overhead. Living in California, we have to deal with our small surf at times. So I definitely have like, you know, like a small wave board one of my new Eagle models, it would be 510 19 A quarter. You know, built for small waves
Matt: Eagle Model
Taylor: Yes. The eagle model. Chris Borst. Is my shaper.
Matt: Okay.
Taylor: BORST. And then I would need I'd probably need one of my skip fry fliers, you know, like my 12, three, skip fry, for when the waves are flat. Yeah. It's really fun to ride. And it's just I don't know, it's just, it's just, it's just a cool board to be out. And it's a different feeling for surfing, you know, for me, and yeah, I think I'd probably take that one.
Matt: Yeah. Right.
Taylor: Yeah.
Matt: Awesome. And there's still a few spots left for your Maldives trip?
Taylor: Yeah, there's still four or five spots
Matt: Where people find out a little bit more about that.
Taylor: Yeah, Matt Griggs, his website is probably the best.
Matt: Yep. All right. We'll put links to that in the show notes.
Taylor: Yeah, please do. He's, he's, he's doing I was just with him down in Australia. And, man, it's amazing. You know, like being down there and seeing how far and how how much it's grown. It's just crazy. It's I love hanging out with Matt and Kate and the kids is I wish they lived down the street. That's the only thing
Matt: Yeah,
Taylor: Yeah.
Mike: Right. Well, Tyler, thank you so much for your time.
Taylor: Yeah, Mike. Thank you, man.
030: MATT GRAINGER + Balter = Educational & Inspirational Surf Stories
Matt's passion and progressive attitude towards surfing and surf coaching shines through in the Balter fueled chat, he shares some stories from his younger days of charging big waves with a group of friends who were pushing each other - giving us some insight into the passion and attitude behind what it takes to get good at surfing. He opens up on how he has developed as a coach and is still learning new things to help his clients and friends. Lessons learnt from Tom Carroll, Nick Carroll, Nathan Hedge, Sebastian Zietz (Seabass), Nam Baldwin, Matt Griggs, Wim Hoff, Meditation, different equipment and more. Plus plenty of tips and techniques in amongst the stories.
Show Notes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSx0ayWHQOs