105 Dr. Tim Brown + Taylor Knox + Michael Rintala - Surfing Longevity
Are you unknowingly sabotaging your surfing longevity by ignoring the basics of movement, breath, and recovery?
Whether you're an everyday surfer or a former pro, staying in the water pain-free takes more than just stoke. This episode explores why surfers lose performance as they age — and how to reverse that decline with tools from DNS, meditation, and vibration therapy.
Learn why Taylor Knox swears by Dynamic Neuromuscular Stabilization (DNS) and a robotic knee replacement for his return to pain-free surfing.
Discover Dr. Tim Brown’s top three non-negotiable tools for energy, healing, and cellular health.
Understand how blending DNS with Kelee meditation can supercharge your movement quality and mental clarity.
Tap into this episode now to learn the tools surf legends and top practitioners use to think, move, and feel better—so you can surf for life.
Surfing longevity tips from 3 experienced legends of the surf world;
https://www.rintalamovementdesigns.com/mindset-and-movement-masterclass
Dr Tim Brown - WSL Medical Director and treating Doctor
https://www.instagram.com/tbsportscare/
Taylor Knox - Pro Surfer
https://www.instagram.com/taylor_knox/?hl=en
Dr. Michael Rintala - WSL Treating Doctor, movement and rehab specialist.
https://www.instagram.com/rintala_movementflow/?hl=en
For more details and to book tickets:
https://www.rintalamovementdesigns.com/mindset-and-movement-masterclass
More surfing tips: www.surfmastery.com
Key Points
Discussion of the upcoming Mind and Movement Masterclass, featuring Dr. Tim Brown, Michael Rintala, Taylor Knox, and Ron Rathburn, aimed at improving longevity, movement, and mental well-being through surf-inspired techniques.
Dr. Tim Brown's approach to working with high-profile clients like Neil Young, focusing on a holistic view of health encompassing diet, mindset, and physical activity.
Discussion on the importance of hydration, quality sleep, and proper breathing techniques as foundational health practices.
Dr. Tim Brown shares insights on the use of vibrational and frequency-based therapies, including sound therapy and tapping, for enhancing physical and mental well-being.
Emphasis on the concept of 'greatness' in sports and the sacrifices required, contrasting it with the pursuit of 'good' and 'better' for the average athlete.
Details about the upcoming Mind and Movement Masterclass, including venue, participants, and topics to be covered such as diet, movement, meditation, and surf technique.
Taylor Knox discusses his recent knee surgery using advanced robotic technology, highlighting the benefits and the rehabilitation process.
Advice on surfing longevity, emphasizing the importance of mindset and stress management in the healing and rehabilitation process.
Explanation of the integration of Dynamic Neuromuscular Stabilization (DNS) with meditation practices to enhance movement efficiency and overall performance.
Discussion on the benefits of vestibular and ocular training in conjunction with DNS for improved sensory input and motor pattern expression.
Outline
Introduction of Guests and Event Promotion
Michael Frampton introduced the guests: Taylor Knox, Dr. Michael Rintala, and Dr. Tim Brown.
The guests are participating in a Mind and Movement Masterclass titled 'Longevity Tools to Think, Move and Feel Better Throughout Life', to be held in Carlsbad, Southern California on November 16, 2024.
The event is promoted through Rintalamovementdesigns.com and links provided in the show notes.
Discussion on Dr. Tim Brown's Work with Neil Young
Dr. Tim Brown has been working with Neil Young for about 12 years.
The work involves overall health maintenance, focusing on diet, lifestyle, and physical activities to keep Neil Young active and healthy.
Neil Young's passion for music is paralleled with surfers' passion for the sport, emphasizing the dedication and effort behind their respective crafts.
Dr. Tim Brown's Background and Philosophy
Dr. Tim Brown graduated from chiropractic college in December 1983 and began working with surfers in 1984 at the TDK Gotcha Pro ASP Pro in Oahu, Hawaii.
His approach to health and wellness is holistic, focusing on diet, mindset, and movement.
He emphasizes the importance of hydration, quality sleep, and proper breathing techniques for overall health.
Dr. Brown advocates for a balanced diet, including moderation in food choices and an emphasis on clean, easily digestible foods.
He highlights the significance of being present in the moment and finding joy in the process of life and sports.
Innovative Health and Fitness Technologies
Dr. Tim Brown discusses emerging technologies like NuX Technologies, which uses vibration and frequency to enhance physical performance and recovery.
He mentions the Shift Wave machine, a chair that uses guided breath work to improve focus, energy, and readiness for various activities.
Sound therapy, specifically NOW Sound Therapy, is highlighted for its ability to induce deep meditation and balance brain waves through different frequencies.
Importance of Body Awareness and Listening to the Body
Dr. Tim Brown stresses the importance of being attuned to the body's signals and messages, suggesting that the body often communicates needs and issues before they become severe.
He encourages individuals to recognize and respond to these signals, promoting a proactive approach to health and wellness.
Balancing Greatness and Normalcy
Dr. Tim Brown shares insights from Kobe Bryant about the sacrifices required for greatness, emphasizing that true greatness often requires forgoing balance and normalcy.
He discusses the importance of understanding and accepting these sacrifices for those aspiring to achieve greatness in any field.
Mind and Movement Masterclass Details
The Mind and Movement Masterclass is a collaborative effort featuring Dr. Tim Brown, Michael Rintala, Taylor Knox, Matt Griggs, and Ron Rathbun.
The event will cover topics such as diet, movement, nutrition, sleep, surf technique, Kili meditation, and dynamic neuromuscular stabilization (DNS).
The masterclass aims to provide attendees with practical tools and insights to improve their surfing performance and overall well-being.
The event will be held at Viore's new headquarters, featuring an outdoor amphitheater and will include prizes, giveaways, and good food.
Taylor Knox's Recent Injuries and Recovery
Taylor Knox discusses recent injuries, including a torn adductor, a hamstring tear, and a sore hip.
He shares his experience with a partial knee replacement using the Mako robot, which significantly improved his knee condition and allowed him to return to surfing pain-free.
Knox credits his recovery to the help of Mike Rintala and Gina Stinko, who used active release technique (ART) in his rehabilitation.
Advice for Surfing Longevity
Taylor Knox emphasizes the importance of mindset and emotional well-being in the healing process, advising against self-criticism and encouraging a positive outlook.
He suggests focusing on personal goals and finding inner peace as key factors in overcoming challenges and achieving longevity in surfing.
Dynamic Neuromuscular Stabilization (DNS) and Its Benefits
Michael Rintala explains DNS as a method to improve movement efficiency by allowing the expression of inborn motor patterns controlled by the central nervous system.
He highlights the similarities between DNS and meditation, both aiming to reduce unnecessary effort and allow natural, efficient movement.
Rintala discusses the importance of balancing the mind and body to achieve durability and longevity in movement quality.
Integration of Vestibular and Ocular Training with DNS
Michael Rintala acknowledges the benefits of vestibular and ocular training as part of somatosensory input, enhancing the quality of movement.
He plans to integrate DNS concepts with courses from Dr. Cobb on ocular and vestibular training, aiming to improve overall movement efficiency and awareness.
Transcription
Michael Frampton
Welcome back to the Surf Mastery Podcast. I'm your host, Michael Frampton. We have a special episode this episode. We have three guests. Of course, we have Taylor Knox, the legendary Taylor Knox, coming back on the show. We have Dr. Michael Rintala coming back on the show, and for the first appearance, we have Dr. Tim Brown. He's one of the co-medical directors of the WSL and a treating physician there as well. And these three gentlemen plus Ron Rathbun, who was a previous guest on the show back in episode 57, the founder of Key Meditation—these four gentlemen are getting together for a mind and movement masterclass, Longevity Tools to Think, Move and Feel Better Throughout Life, which is happening in Southern California in Carlsbad on November the 16th, 2024. An event I wish... I could make it to. And to find out more and to book tickets to that, you can go to rintalamovementdesigns.com and of course a link in the show notes and on the website to go straight to that. But following is the next best thing. We get to hear from Taylor Knox, Michael Rintala and Tim Brown in this episode. And you can go back and listen to Taylor Knox's first appearance in episode 31 and 46—he appeared as well. For a more detailed and deeper interview with Michael Rintala and DNS, you can go back to episode 50. And this will be Tim Brown's first appearance on the show. But if you're a surf nerd, you would have heard the name Tim Brown before. He's been one of the treating physicians and the medical director of the WSL for quite some time. And he's developed his own treatment stuff. He works very holistically with clients. He has a huge resume. You can go to TBSportsCare—that's @tbsportscare on Instagram—to find out more about Tim. I will have links in the show notes for more stuff about Tim as well. So he will be the first interview in this episode. I was going for a surf last week and wanted to do a double session. So I had two wetsuits in the car and my Flat Rock wetsuit was already wet, so I slipped on one of my other suits. I hadn't worn anything else apart from my Flat Rock wetsuit since I got it, but putting this other wetsuit on made me realize just how hard it is to put on other wetsuits. And it's another little bonus I noticed about these Flat Rock wetsuits. Not only are these ultra comfortable and warm, but it's so easy to put on and to take off. That saves time. And if you want a discount on a brand new Flat Rock Guaranteed for Life wetsuit, use discount code MASTER15. That's MASTER15 at checkout. You can go to flatrockwetsuits.com.au. Link for that is in the show notes of course. And... I will now fade in my conversation with Dr. Tim Brown. We ease into this conversation. A little bit of talk about Neil Young.
Michael Frampton
...hell young on, is it, say Zuma Beach underneath?
Dr. Tim Brown
Yeah. Yeah. One of my... one of my patients, one of my good friends actually. Super honored to somehow fall into his life and be part of his tour and part of his life, actually, in his wedding and all that stuff. He married an actress named Daryl Hannah, who my wife grew up with. They're both actors. And so she got together with Neil and all of a sudden now we're, you know, we're sharing wives and husbands.
Michael Frampton
Not literally, I hope.
Michael Frampton
I'm sorry. It's such a nice part of the world. I surfed Zuma Beach every day for four years.
Dr. Tim Brown
No way. Really?
Michael Frampton
Yeah, it's what caught my eye.
Dr. Tim Brown
Nice. Yeah. Did you run into Bob Dylan out there too? Flea and Coldplay. Chris Martin was out surfing Point Loma every day with no shirt on in the middle of winter.
Michael Frampton
No way, really?
Dr. Tim Brown
Yeah, Mike D... I think the D stands for douchebag, by the way. He would just drop in on anyone, but you know.
Michael Frampton
No, I never did. No. I ran into Anthony Kiedis and Flea and Coldplay. Chris Martin was out surfing Point Loma every day with no shirt on in the middle of winter.
Dr. Tim Brown
Yeah, Mike D... I think the D stands for douchebag, by the way. He would just drop in on anyone, but you know.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, there's always one.
Dr. Tim Brown
The Beastie Boys, anyway. So, were you treating Neil like on his tour? Is that what you're alluding to?
Michael Frampton
Yeah. I never liked the Beastie Boys anyway, so. Were you treating Neil like on his tour? Is that what you're alluding to? Honor just to be in the same room. Alone. Get close to him and find out a little bit about what makes him tick and watch his process of him writing and, you know, it's just, he's just one of us, man. He's just a surfer without a surfboard. You know, he has the same mentality and he's always looking for the next great ride, whatever that may be. And, you know, such a great champion for human rights and nature and the earth in general. So it's not hard to get wrapped up into his groove for sure.
Dr. Tim Brown
Yeah, I've been working with him for the last, I don't know, 12 years or so. And, you know, just such a great honor just to be in the same room. Alone. Get close to him and find out a little bit about what makes him tick and watch his process of him writing and, you know, it's just, he's just one of us, man. He's just a surfer without a surfboard. You know, he has the same mentality and he's always looking for the next great ride, whatever that may be. And, you know, such a great champion for human rights and nature and the earth in general. So it's not hard to get wrapped up into his groove for sure.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. In what capacity? Like from a bodywork, like keeping his body in check capacity? Is that what you're working with him? Yeah. The long-term physical manifestation of what we eat, think and do. And there's no way around it, you know. And so looking at all the things he does on a regular basis from the time he wakes up to the time he goes to bed, what are the things that he could do to amplify his life, to amplify the things he loves to do. And like, you know, what are the best nutrients to keep his inflammation down? You know, as we get older, we get a lot of chronic stuff and he's not, he's... and they're not getting any younger. So he's almost 80. And so he wants to be, you know, his mind is... he's a teenager. You know, he wants to get out there and jam and play with the boys and whether that's jamming in the barn or, you know, swimming laps or whatever it might be. He's down. He just, you know... He's just, he realizes that the body's a temple. And you really have to respect it as best you can. And he had a couple of rough years back in the day, you know. Back in the '60s and '70s, when there were just no limits on, you know, experimenting with your mind and body, you know, he rode that wave, so to speak. And now... and, you know, has a lot of great wisdom from it. But he wants to, you know, he wants to keep active. He wants to keep his attitude alive and really relate to things everybody else can. And so... he's a good dude.
Dr. Tim Brown
Kind of an overall, you know, we become... you know, as part of our talk here that we're doing with the boys. But, you know, we become the long-term physical manifestation of what we eat, think and do. And there's no way around it, you know. And so looking at all the things he does on a regular basis from the time he wakes up to the time he goes to bed, what are the things that he could do to amplify his life, to amplify the things he loves to do. And like, you know, what are the best nutrients to keep his inflammation down? You know, as we get older, we get a lot of chronic stuff and he's not, he's... and they're not getting any younger. So he's almost 80. And so he wants to be, you know, his mind is... he's a teenager. You know, he wants to get out there and jam and play with the boys and whether that's jamming in the barn or, you know, swimming laps or whatever it might be. He's down. He just, you know... He's just, he realizes that the body's a temple. And you really have to respect it as best you can. And he had a couple of rough years back in the day, you know. Back in the '60s and '70s, when there were just no limits on, you know, experimenting with your mind and body, you know, he rode that wave, so to speak. And now... and, you know, has a lot of great wisdom from it. But he wants to, you know, he wants to keep active. He wants to keep his attitude alive and really relate to things everybody else can. And so... he's a good dude.
Michael Frampton
Good man. I mean, obviously he's still passionate about, like, that. He wants to, when he does get on stage and perform, he wants to do it well. Never, you know, I've never caught enough waves ever. And so that's him with music. And it's just great to see those parallels and the passion, you know, that comes from it.
Dr. Tim Brown
He's a grump. Like, you know, he's like me, probably you too. I got a fucking problem. Okay. I like to surf a lot. And I've never, you know, I've never caught enough waves ever. And so that's him with music. And it's just great to see those parallels and the passion, you know, that comes from it. Their whole lives are dedicated to making sure that the songs are good, the performance is right, the singing on pitch, the body's connected when they do it. They probably don't even eat from, you know, six hours before they're due to sing because of the way that it might affect that. There's so much that goes on behind that, and that's the same for surfers, which is what sort of, you know, why you're here on this show. The surfers, they have that same mentality. We think they are just these talented athletes that just go out and surf, but there's so much more that goes on behind the scenes. And I spoke with Taylor yesterday and he said that whenever he was on tour and whenever he goes to an event nowadays, every single athlete just wants to be treated by you. Everyone's like, "Where's Tim? My body, I need Tim." Why is that?
Michael Frampton
Yeah. And I think it alludes to something which a lot of us sometimes don't realize. We might think Neil Young, he's just a talented musician who just, you know, he can just sit down and sing and pick up a guitar whenever he wants. But there's actually a lot that goes on behind it. And there's, you know, their whole lives are dedicated to making sure that the songs are good, the performance is right, the singing on pitch, the body's connected when they do it. They probably don't even eat from, you know, six hours before they're due to sing because of the way that it might affect that. There's so much that goes on behind that, and that's the same for surfers, which is what sort of, you know, why you're here on this show. The surfers, they have that same mentality. We think they are just these talented athletes that just go out and surf, but there's so much more that goes on behind the scenes. And I spoke with Taylor yesterday and he said that whenever he was on tour and whenever he goes to an event nowadays, every single athlete just wants to be treated by you. Everyone's like, "Where's Tim? My body, I need Tim." Why is that? Repetitions to understand the human condition and how to approach it and how to speak the language so that you're not just sounding like you bought a lot of 29 cent words. You want to sound... the master of educator is able to teach a six-year-old kid something. They're able to teach that kid something that it can repeat it back. And so for me, it's been a lifetime goal, at least career-wise, to be able to break my big long words down into words that are easily digestible and they're going to be meaningful in the long term. So I think that maybe that's part of it. And then of course, just being around probably longer than a lot of guys, you know, to help these athletes. I've started working with guys that were riding single fins basically, you know, and then the thruster came out. And that was kind of the beginning of my sports medicine. And so you've seen surfing change so much since, you know, that's the '80s. It's been just wild. My inspiration, Jerry Lopez—you can see my Bolt board behind me and my poster of Jerry behind me there, him surfing out in front of his house. You know, that was my inspiration. And so it continues to drag me along with it. As well as seeing all the inspiration coming from the new kids in town that are just mind-blowing athletes that have decided to take surfing on instead of going into the ball-and-stick sports and have just lit the sport on fire. I mean, what's next? What are they going to do next? I don't know. All I know is it's not the same sport I started with. That's for darn sure. The other thing—I’m a surfer. I grew up surfing. My dad was a surfer, and I think speaking the language and understanding the nomenclature and knowing when to keep your trap shut and just be humble is really important. And I think if the surfers get a load of that and they see that, then they're a lot more comfortable with you as well. And they're more curious about what makes this guy tick? So I think just living the things that I talked about is probably the most powerful example as opposed to speaking a lot of.
Dr. Tim Brown
That's just super kind. I think, you know, I mean, I've been there for a minute. In fact, I think I sent you a couple pictures today just to give you some flavor of kind of where it started. You know, I graduated from chiropractic college in 1983, in December 1983. And in 1984, I got asked to work at the TDK Gotcha Pro ASP Pro at Sandy Beach on Oahu in Hawaii. And that was kind of the beginning of the end, so to speak, for me. You know, the beginning of falling in love with the other side of surfing—the preparation for surfing, the recovery from surfing, the aspirational pieces of surfing. I got put front and center with some of the best athletes in the world and was asked to work with them. And I'm just out of school. And I don't know about a lot of docs, but when I got out of school, I had all this education, but I didn't know what I was doing. You know, I mean, I was a surfer. I was an often-injured ex-athlete, but it takes a lot of time. That's why they call it a practice. I mean, it takes a lot of repetitions to understand the human condition and how to approach it and how to speak the language so that you're not just sounding like you bought a lot of 29 cent words. You want to sound... the master of educator is able to teach a six-year-old kid something. They're able to teach that kid something that it can repeat it back. And so for me, it's been a lifetime goal, at least career-wise, to be able to break my big long words down into words that are easily digestible and they're going to be meaningful in the long term. So I think that maybe that's part of it. And then of course, just being around probably longer than a lot of guys, you know, to help these athletes. I've started working with guys that were riding single fins basically, you know, and then the thruster came out. And that was kind of the beginning of my sports medicine. And so you've seen surfing change so much since, you know, that's the '80s. It's been just wild. My inspiration, Jerry Lopez—you can see my Bolt board behind me and my poster of Jerry behind me there, him surfing out in front of his house. You know, that was my inspiration. And so it continues to drag me along with it. As well as seeing all the inspiration coming from the new kids in town that are just mind-blowing athletes that have decided to take surfing on instead of going into the ball-and-stick sports and have just lit the sport on fire. I mean, what's next? What are they going to do next? I don't know. All I know is it's not the same sport I started with. That's for darn sure. The other thing—I’m a surfer. I grew up surfing. My dad was a surfer, and I think speaking the language and understanding the nomenclature and knowing when to keep your trap shut and just be humble is really important. And I think if the surfers get a load of that and they see that, then they're a lot more comfortable with you as well. And they're more curious about what makes this guy tick? So I think just living the things that I talked about is probably the most powerful example as opposed to speaking a lot of.
Michael Frampton
Words. Seminar that you're involved in that's up and coming. What's some of those lessons that you've learned through that journey that you hope to impart to the everyday athlete who's going to come along to see this and participate? For pleasure. And what are those foods? And, you know, how much of them should you have? So understanding your diet preferences and the things that you really need to do have to come together. And we get a whole new body on the inside every year. Our body's constantly dying off and remaking itself. And we get a chance to dictate what those cells look like. Do we want to have fast food McDonald's cells or do we want to have these juicy, quality, hydrated, high-energy cells? And so for me, especially as time goes on, I want to get rid of the former and really latch onto the latter—those cells that are going to make my cells. Now, I'm almost 70, so when I get to 70, I want those cells to be as bright and shiny as possible. And we have the ability to do that. And it's all based upon choice and education. So, teaching people how to do it without making it complex is really kind of my job. And I think that you go through and see a lot of these trends coming through training and coming through what we wear and what we eat and how we breathe and all that stuff. It all comes back to the basics. It always seems to swing back to the basics, you know—the primal food thing and all this stuff that goes on for trends. And I think it has its value, especially for some people and what their needs are, but it always comes back to the basics. It never really gets away from that too far. So eating the right carbohydrates, the right fats, the right proteins, cutting things out of your diet that are on our planet that we were meant to eat—I'm not a big fan of that. I'm a fan of moderation. You know, I lean into the vegan vegetarian side of things. And so that's kind of my drift that I go into. But some people—my NFL guys and whatnot that really want to put on a lot of weight and stay thick and kind of be in that old school—I just make sure that what they're eating is as clean as possible and as easy for the body to process and absorb as possible too. So it comes down to what we call the biopsychosocial. That means where are you from and what did your parents do and how did you grow up? All those things make a big difference too. So you don't want to come in and change somebody 180 degrees today to make them better, to make them do what Kelly's doing or do what Mick's doing or those guys, you know. You really have to find your own niche and you really have to find your own rhythm and synchrony. And it's the same thing for the mind. You know, as far as keeping people in the moment. You know, that's our goal. That's where life is lived. You can't be happy unless you're in the moment. So for me, happiness is my goal. So I had to figure out how am I going to live my life in that pocket? How am I going to make sure that I'm planning for the future and that I'm learning from the past, but that I spend the predominant amount of time where life is lived? And that's right here, right now with you. And so being able to have that mindset so that when you do find those things that you love—those peak experiences, those things that we really live for—I mean, who's not going to want to maximize those moments? And so, you know, that mental part is key. And then the doing part—what do you do all day? How do you prepare yourself for surf and for life and for business and all that stuff? What do you do? What are the shapes that you put your body in all day? Because that really has a whole bunch to do with how I'm going to recommend any kind of training. How much time do you spend on your devices, at the desk, watching TV, sitting on the couch? Those things—your body will mold to that. Your body—we adapt. Like I said, a whole new body every year. If you want to spend a year on the couch, guess what you look like at the end of the year? You know, it looks like you spent a year on the couch. You know, your body's folded forward, everything's contracting. So, you know, we are highly specific to adapting to our environment. And so we want to make sure that if I'm looking at your environment, what do you do? What's your day look like? What kind of bed do you sleep in? What kind of chair are you in? And how much time do you spend in it? So I recommend everybody spends a lot of time on the floor. That is the thing. If we look at what we lose as we get older, we lose the ability to get off the fucking floor. Excuse my French. But I really want to emphasize that. We become afraid of the floor. And that's an issue. So, spending time on the floor makes you get up from the floor and makes that less fearful for you. And I know that's going from one extreme—surfing—to, okay, now we're starting to end life here. But that's the truth. And we become fearful of moving. So movement, therefore, is life. And life is movement. So everything that I do kind of always spirals back into movement. And spiral is a big thing too. Not only does spiral make up the waves, but it's how our bodies are formed. There's a number system in the body called the Fibonacci sequence, and it's known as the golden ratio or sacred geometry. It's kind of how the universe is made up. And we are part of that universe. And guess what? We're made up of the same thing. And that's vibration and frequency and energy. Everything organic in the universe has those three principles. And so that's what we're made up of. So I'm really into looking at the dynamics of healing with that in mind. You know, how does our frequency change when we drop in our health? Our immune system drops, our body's not able to handle the stress it was before. And then what do we do to vibrate it back into life? And you'll be seeing a lot of those things come out in the near future about how vibration—key frequency and vibration—like your nerves vibrate at a different frequency than your muscle does. And your organs—heart, lung, liver—they all have their own frequencies. So the way that we keep the frequencies up is to be in good environments, have a good mindset, and hydrate. Because if you don't hydrate, you can't vibrate. So I see three things that happen in people—relatively simple things everybody can do for free—to enhance their life starting today. And that's to make sure that you've hydrated half your body weight in ounces. I would say sleep is the other big deal, right? You've got to get seven to nine hours of sleep. It's compulsory. You have to do it. And you have to learn how to make it high-quality sleep too. Because when you're sleeping, your brain's scrubbing itself. It's going through all these different wave patterns in your brain to clean itself up and flush stuff out of there so you can get ready for the next day. So having a high quality of sleep is really important. And then the third thing is just breathing right—nose breathing, diaphragmatic breathing. I mean, those three things, if I could turn the world onto that and just deliver and say, hey, here's the most special thing that you can do, I know it would elevate. It would raise all the ships in the harbor. You know, it would elevate everybody's life, everybody's vibration, everybody's attitude and all that stuff. And I know that's highly simplistic information. But we've got to start somewhere. And so that's a great way to start with one's health—just looking at those three things.
Dr. Tim Brown
Yeah, I think, you know, I mean, we go back to those three things again. You know, if we're talking about what you eat, you know, it's talking about the foods that give you energy, not foods that you eat for pleasure. And what are those foods? And, you know, how much of them should you have? So understanding your diet preferences and the things that you really need to do have to come together. And we get a whole new body on the inside every year. Our body's constantly dying off and remaking itself. And we get a chance to dictate what those cells look like. Do we want to have fast food McDonald's cells, or do we want to have these juicy, quality, hydrated, high-energy cells? And so for me, especially as time goes on, I want to get rid of the former and really latch onto the latter—those cells that are going to make my cells. Now I'm almost 70, so when I get to 70, I want those cells to be as bright and shiny as possible. And we have the ability to do that. And it's all based upon choice and education. So teaching people how to do it without making it complex is really kind of my job. And I think that you go through and see a lot of these trends coming through training and coming through what we wear and what we eat and how we breathe and all that stuff. It all comes back to the basics. It always seems to swing back to the basics. You know, the primal food thing and all this stuff, you know, that goes on for trends, and I think it has its value, especially for some people and what their needs are, but it always comes back to the basics. It never really gets away from that too far. So eating the right carbohydrates, the right fats, the right proteins, cutting things out of your diet that are on our planet that we were meant to eat—I'm not a big fan of that. I'm a fan of moderation. You know, I lean into the vegan vegetarian side of things. And so that's kind of my drift that I go into. But some people, you know, my NFL guys and whatnot that really want to put on a lot of weight and stay thick and kind of be in that old school, I just make sure that what they're eating is as clean as possible and as easy for the body to process and absorb as possible too. So it comes down to what we call the biopsychosocial. That means where are you from and what did your parents do and how did you grow up? All those things make a big difference too. So you don't want to come in and change somebody 180 degrees today to make them better, to make them do what Kelly's doing or do what Mick's doing or those guys, you know. You really have to find your own niche and you really have to find your own rhythm and synchrony. And it's the same thing for the mind. You know, as far as keeping people in the moment. You know, that's our goal. That's where life is lived. You can't be happy unless you're in the moment. So for me, happiness is my goal. So I had to figure out how am I going to live my life in that pocket? How am I going to make sure that I'm planning for the future and that I'm learning from the past, but that I spend the predominant amount of time where life is lived? And that's right here, right now with you. And so being able to have that mindset so that when you do find those things that you love—those peak experiences, those things that we really live for—you know, I mean, who's not going to want to maximize those moments? And so, you know, that mental part is key. And then, and the doing part—what do you do all day? How do you prepare yourself for surf and for life and for business and all that stuff? What do you do? What are the shapes that you put your body in all day? Because that really has a whole bunch to do with how I'm going to recommend any kind of training. How much time do you spend on your devices, at the desk, watching TV, sitting on the couch? Those things—your body will mold to that. Your body—we adapt. Like I said, a whole new body every year. If you want to spend a year on the couch, guess what you look like at the end of the year? You know, it looks like you spent a year on the couch. You know, your body's folded forward, everything's contracting. So, you know, we are highly specific to adapting to our environment. And so we want to make sure that if I'm looking at your environment, what do you do? What's your day look like? What kind of bed do you sleep in? What kind of chair are you in? And how much time do you spend in it? So I recommend everybody spends a lot of time on the floor. That is the thing. If we look at what we lose as we get older, we lose the ability to get off the fucking floor. Excuse my French. But I really want to emphasize that. We become afraid of the floor. And that's an issue. So spending time on the floor makes you get up from the floor and makes that less fearful for you. And I know that's going from one extreme—surfing—to, okay, now we're starting to end life here. But that's the truth. And we become fearful of moving. So movement, therefore, is life. And life is movement. So everything that I do kind of always spirals back into movement. And spiral is a big thing too. Not only does spiral make up the waves, but it's how our bodies are formed. There's a number system in the body called the Fibonacci sequence, and it's known as the golden ratio or sacred geometry. It's kind of how the universe is made up. And we are part of that universe. And guess what? We're made up of the same thing. And that's vibration and frequency and energy. Everything organic in the universe has those three principles. And so that's what we're made up of. So I'm really into looking at the dynamics of healing with that in mind. You know, how does our frequency change when we drop in our health? Our immune system drops. Our body's not able to handle the stress it was before. And then what do we do to vibrate it back into life? And you'll be seeing a lot of those things come out in the near future about how vibration—key frequency and vibration—like your nerves vibrate at a different frequency than your muscle does. And your organs—heart, lung, liver—they all have their own frequencies. So the way that we keep the frequencies up is to be in good environments, have a good mindset, and hydrate. Because if you don't hydrate, you can't vibrate. So I see three things that happen in people. Relatively simple things everybody can do for free to enhance their life starting today. And that's to make sure that you've hydrated half your body weight in ounces. I would say sleep is the other big deal, right? You’ve got to get seven to nine hours of sleep. It's compulsory. You have to do it. And you have to learn how to make it high-quality sleep too. Because when you're sleeping, your brain's scrubbing itself. It's going through all these different wave patterns in your brain to clean itself up and flush stuff out of there so you can get ready for the next day. So having a high quality of sleep is really important. And then the third thing is just breathing right. Nose breathing, diaphragmatic breathing. I mean, those three things, if I could turn the world onto that and just deliver and say, hey, here's the most special thing that you can do, I know it would elevate. It would raise all the ships in the harbor. You know, it would elevate everybody's life, everybody's vibration, everybody's attitude and all that stuff. And I know that's highly simplistic information. But we've got to start somewhere. And so that's a great way to start with one's health—just looking at those three things.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, and I totally agree. You alluded to the vibrational stuff, and it sounds like you've been following some interesting leaders within the health and fitness space who aren't yet mainstream, who you—seems like you predict them to be. Jack Kruse comes to mind. I don't know if you're on to what he's been doing—he’s been doing that for a long time—but his stuff's starting to come to the forefront. And anyone else that we should be looking at in that space for the nerds out there?
Dr. Tim Brown
Well, there. They'll make it happen that much faster because as you're doing the actual mechanical stretch or movement, it's sending in the vibration that's specifically tuned for those fibers. And when the body gets that information, it just, it yields to it way quicker. And so that's a really cool thing. There's another really cool machine I used at the U.S. Open of Surfing last week. We had like 35 doctors out there and I met this one group that said, hey, I want to introduce you to this machine. And they told me about the concept of it. I said, gosh, if you could bring one out, man, let's have it in the tent. And so they have this thing called ShiftWave, and it's a chair that you sit in. And it's probably, I don't know, it's 12 to 15 grand. So it's not cheap, but the experience that you have in it is just unbelievable. You sit in this chair and then you put on headphones and you put on a mask so you can't see, so light's blocked out. And it just starts guiding you through this meditation of breath. Different types of breath work though, not just singular breath work, to elicit different responses in your body. So there's one that in particular I'll tell you about, it's called Ride the Tiger. It's this 25-minute program where they take you through a HALO jump. Like you've never jumped, you've never parachuted, but they take you through the breath work that a HALO jumper—that's high-altitude skydivers that do it in the military and so forth—but they're diving for miles out of a plane, miles up in the air. And they're going through this atmosphere where they got no oxygen. So they hyper-oxygenate you with this oxygen program or this breathing program before they put you into this. They have you do the HALO jump into this jungle where there's this tiger that you have to befriend. So you have to calm yourself, yet keep yourself intense. And so they take you through a breathing program that does that. And I mention that program because Jhony Corzo, who just was in the Olympics from Mexico, and then he was at the U.S. Open—just won the U.S. Open. We turned him on to that the first day of the U.S. Open. He was riding the tiger every day, twice a day, and ended up winning the comp. And so it just kind of tells that story of here's a guy who's come into the competition, probably pretty fatigued from coming back from, you know, the Olympics and having that whole experience—that emotional experience along with the physical one. And now he's found this little button that he can push to get his vibrations back up, his energy up, his focus up. Because different vibrations will either mellow you out by putting you into the parasympathetic mode or heighten everything and put you in the ready state. So that's kind of what this machine does. It plays between those two variances and gets you ready for whatever thing you're getting into—whether you've got to go give a speech or you're going to go for a surf or you want to go take a nap.
Dr. Tim Brown
There are some cool products that are coming out with frequency in mind. One is NuX. It's called NuX Technologies, and that is a stem machine that vibrates and uses different frequencies to create different changes in the body. Like they'll set a frequency to lengthen muscle. I've never seen a muscle stim that does that before. So as I'm doing a yoga class or Gymnastica Natural—whatever I'm into—and I'm trying to gain mobility, these things will accentuate whatever I'm doing physically in there. They'll make it happen that much faster because as you're doing the actual mechanical stretch or movement, it's sending in the vibration that's specifically tuned for those fibers. And when the body gets that information, it just yields to it way quicker. And so that's a really cool thing. There's another really cool machine I used at the U.S. Open of Surfing last week. We had like 35 doctors out there and I met this one group that said, "Hey, I want to introduce you to this machine." And they told me about the concept of it. I said, "Gosh, if you could bring one out, man, let's have it in the tent." And so they have this thing called ShiftWave, and it's a chair that you sit in. And it's probably, I don't know, it's $12,000 to $15,000. So it's not cheap, but the experience that you have in it is just unbelievable. You sit in this chair and then you put on headphones and you put on a mask so you can't see, so light's blocked out. And it just starts guiding you through this meditation of breath—different types of breathwork though, not just singular breathwork—to elicit different responses in your body. So there's one that in particular I'll tell you about. It's called Ride the Tiger. It's this 25-minute program where they take you through a HALO jump. Like you've never jumped, you've never parachuted, but they take you through the breathwork that a HALO jumper—that's high-altitude skydivers that do it in the military and so forth—but they're diving for miles out of a plane, miles up in the air, and they're going through this atmosphere where they got no oxygen. So they hyper-oxygenate you with this oxygen program or this breathing program before they put you into this. They have you do the HALO jump into this jungle where there's this tiger that you have to befriend. So you have to calm yourself, yet keep yourself intense. And so they take you through a breathing program that does that. And I mention that program because Jhony Corzo, who just was in the Olympics from Mexico and then he was at the U.S. Open, just won the U.S. Open. We turned him on to that the first day of the U.S. Open. He was riding the tiger every day, twice a day, and ended up winning the comp. And so it just kind of tells that story of here's a guy who's come into the competition, probably pretty fatigued from coming back from, you know, the Olympics and having that whole experience—that emotional experience along with the physical one. And now he's found this little button that he can push to get his vibrations back up, his energy up, his focus up. Because different vibrations will either mellow you out by putting you into the parasympathetic mode or heighten everything and put you in the ready state. So that's kind of what this machine does. It plays between those two variances and gets you ready for whatever thing you're getting into—whether you've got to go give a speech or you're going to go for a surf or you want to go take a nap.
Michael Frampton
Wow, really interesting. That's cool. One thing I can think of I've talked about really quickly is called tapping, which is a really old and ancient way of healing where they tap on certain parts of the body to get a response. And of course that's vibrational. So it's around us. You know, the negative vibrations are car engines, plane engines, train engines. Whenever we sit in a car, we're degenerating. Same with an airplane. Besides being up in a microwave, you're vibrating. So unfortunately, those vibrations are not good for us. So there are some vibrations that are good, some that aren't. Those that are in the transportation system industry retire early, often because of the damage that vibration has done to... yeah.
Dr. Tim Brown
Cool. Yeah. And the thing, the most basic thing I can think of I've talked about really quickly is called tapping, which is a really old and ancient way of healing where they tap on certain parts of the body to get a response. And of course that's vibrational. So it's around us. You know, the negative vibrations are car engines, plane engines, train engines. Whenever we sit in a car, we're degenerating. Same with an airplane. Besides being up in a microwave, you're vibrating. So unfortunately, those vibrations are not good for us. So there are some vibrations that are good, some that aren't. Those that are in the transportation system industry retire early, often because of the damage that vibration has done.
Michael Frampton
The system. Yeah. I mean, and sound healing comes to mind, of course. I'm not—I don't have anything to do with these products—but I use them with my athletes. N.O.W. Sound Therapy. And there's these two little speakers you put right next to your ears as you lay back. And it takes you through three minutes of sounds. And these sounds are all different frequencies that take your brain through all the different waves. Oftentimes when we're stressed out or we're overcooked, our brain sticks into one pattern and it's got like six different waves that it needs to go through for all its processes. And so this sound therapy takes your brain through—it's involuntary—it just goes on. And at the end of the three minutes, you've had physiologically a 30-minute deep meditation. I don't know about you, Michael. Meditation is tough for me to sit down and give it 45 on a daily basis, if we're being honest, right? But if you can't give up three minutes to get your mind right, then you probably don't really want your mind right. So I do the three-minute thing, you know, oftentimes multiple times during the day, and it's just wonderful. And you can't believe it when you experience it the first time because it's so simple. And the chemistry that you feel change in your body after doing this is—you know, it's drug-like. Because that's what's happening. Brain chemistry is being released into your body and you actually feel it.
Dr. Tim Brown
There's a product I want to just mention real quick called N.O.W. I'm not—I don't have anything to do with these products—but I use them with my athletes. N.O.W. Sound Therapy. And there's these two little speakers you put right next to your ears as you lay back. And it takes you through three minutes of sounds. And these sounds are all different frequencies that take your brain through all the different waves. Oftentimes, when we're stressed out or we're overcooked, our brain sticks into one pattern and it's got like six different waves that it needs to go through for all its processes. And so this sound therapy takes your brain through—it's involuntary—it just goes on. And at the end of the three minutes, you've had physiologically a 30-minute deep meditation. I don't know about you, Michael. Meditation is tough for me to sit down and give it 45 on a daily basis, if we're being honest, right? But if you can't give up three minutes to get your mind right, then you probably don't really want your mind right. So I do the three-minute thing, you know, oftentimes multiple times during the day, and it's just wonderful. And you can't believe it when you experience it the first time because it's so simple. And the chemistry that you feel change in your body after doing this is—you know, it's drug-like. Because that's what's happening. Brain chemistry is being released into your body and you actually feel it.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, I struggle to do long meditation. I do the Kelee five-minute meditation. That's my go-to. Yeah. And I use sound as well. You feel certain frequencies, you feel your bones vibrate differently and different parts of the body vibrate, which of course, even from a pure neurological perspective, that just increases your basic body awareness. A keen ear and they listen to the whispers before it becomes a conversation. Before it becomes a scream. When it's a scream, you're injured. But your body's always talking to us. And like when you walk by, like in your house and you're walking by a bottle of vitamin C—some days, the last three days you walk by it and you see that you're cognizant of it. There's a reason for that. You might want to maybe suss out and take some of that. Because your body's always giving you messages and it becomes, you know, that ability to become wise and to have wisdom through experience, to start recognizing these things. And so, you know, I've already been through a bunch of trips around the world. You know, the sun's gone around a few times in my life. And so anything I can do to share some of that stuff, which is what you're doing to my people—such a good job of it. Really appreciate your perspective as well, because, you know, there's so much that we can either choose to get out of life or leave behind. And I just, I've had the opportunity to be around a lot of people that have gotten the most out of life. And I want to share those experiences.
Dr. Tim Brown
And that's everything, right? We want to bring that awareness out. It's talking to us all the time. And what we have to do is learn how to adjust the volume. You know, the people that are really on with their body—the Jerry Lopezes, the Kellys, the John Johns, the Micks—those guys really have a keen ear and they listen to the whispers before it becomes a conversation. Before it becomes a scream. When it's a scream, you're injured. But your body's always talking to us. And like when you walk by, like in your house and you're walking by a bottle of vitamin C—some days, the last three days you walk by it and you see that you're cognizant of it. There's a reason for that. You might want to maybe suss out and take some of that. Because your body's always giving you messages and it becomes, you know, that ability to become wise and to have wisdom through experience, to start recognizing these things. And so, you know, I've already been through a bunch of trips around the world. You know, the sun's gone around a few times in my life. And so anything I can do to share some of that stuff, which is what you're doing to my people—such a good job of it. Really appreciate your perspective as well, because, you know, there's so much that we can either choose to get out of life or leave behind. And I just, I've had the opportunity to be around a lot of people that have gotten the most out of life. And I want to share those experiences.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, no, thank you. That sounds awesome. I mean, surfing is a long-term relationship—sort of a thought that I've been thinking about recently. And like any long-term relationship, the more committed you are to it, the more you're going to get out of it. Of course, you're going to have challenges. And whilst, you know, if you want to improve a personal or romantic relationship, you might go to a marriage counselor and you might, you know, do some self-help reading or something like that. But when it comes to surfing, you've got to keep your body and your mind and your diet in check in order just to keep getting off the floor—because that's what a pop-up is, right? Essentially. That's... system and the body can really help to repair itself. Yep. So I think that was really cool stuff that I saw.
Dr. Tim Brown
Yeah, I saw on your site, you know, you're into the pop-up, and that's something that I'll share with you too. That's what happens when we get older—we lose the pop-up, right? And it was really encouraging for me to see you doing a reverse pop-up, Michael. Because for me, that's what I do with sports. If a kicker's got a kicking injury, I take him through the reverse motion of a kick to help him heal. And it's the same thing with surfing. So that reverse pop-up that you've got going on the other side of the planet here is just bitchin’ to see—that you're doing the same stuff—because I really believe it's true. You just reverse what's happening in the nervous system, and the body can really help to repair itself. Yep. So I think that was really cool stuff that I saw.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. No, it's a good way to progress into it. And reverse pop-up with the opposite leg as well to keep the body a bit more symmetrical. I used to work with Kobe Bryant quite a bit and ended up meeting up with him about three months before he passed, again. And he was working with us with the U.S. Surf Team. Really. And so he brought and wanted to talk story and talked about balance with Kobe. And one of the girls that was trying for the surf team, I remember, asked, "Well, Kobe, I too want to be the best in the world at what I do." She was a water polo player and Olympian, and now she wanted to be a surfing Olympian. And so she goes, "But I'm having a problem with my family sharing—trying to become balanced, you know, between my family and my work and my job and my sport—that I want to be the best in the world at." She goes, "Well, Kobe, I know you want to be the best in the world. How did you balance that out?" And he goes, "Look, you have to do one thing first and foremost, and that's lose the word balance." And I just went, "What?" And he goes, "There is no balance in greatness. If you want to be good, you can be balanced. But if you want to be great, you'll never be balanced. That is the sacrifice you make for greatness." And I just was completely blown away because I'd been training people for balance—you know, those three things that I talked about. And then as I learned more about greatness, there's a great book called Relentless by Tim Grover, and it speaks to those athletes that are relentless. And Kelly Slater is a great example in our sport—of doing whatever it takes to be better, to never be satisfied with the job that you did today because tomorrow is a new day. And so, not the healthiest for all of us to get into that mindset—I promise you that. But it's really great for me, working with parents that have kids that they are aspiring to be great at what they do. And I don't care if that's a musician or an athlete or an artist or an academic—if you want to be great, you're going to be different. The sacrifices that you make to be great will not allow you to go to all the birthday parties and go to prom and be popular with this or that group. You are going to be solely focused on greatness. And greatness has everything—one lane. And so that to me has been a great lesson to be able to talk to the parents with intelligence and say, "This is not just coming from me. This is coming from some of the greatest. And if you want your kid to be great, you're going to sacrifice your kid's normalcy. And if that's cool with you, then... I don't know if it's cool with your kid. But that's what it takes to be great." So I not only have a tremendous amount of respect for those that are great—Neil Young is great. He's a little odd, you know? Sorry, Neil. But that's what greatness requires—that you have to go off. So I don't know why I got onto that tangent.
Dr. Tim Brown
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Because there's nobody that's ever been balanced. And I mean, for my first 35 years, I taught balance—until I had the honor to work with Kobe Bryant quite a bit. And ended up meeting up with him about three months before he passed, again. And he was working with us with the U.S. Surf Team. Really. And so he brought and wanted to talk story and talked about balance with Kobe. And one of the girls that was trying for the surf team, I remember, asked, "Well, Kobe, I too want to be the best in the world at what I do." She was a water polo player and Olympian, and now she wanted to be a surfing Olympian. And so she goes, "But I'm having a problem with my family sharing—trying to become balanced, you know, between my family and my work and my job and my sport—that I want to be the best in the world at." She goes, "Well, Kobe, I know you want to be the best in the world. How did you balance that out?" And he goes, "Look, you have to do one thing first and foremost, and that's lose the word balance." And I just went, "What?" And he goes, "There is no balance in greatness. If you want to be good, you can be balanced. But if you want to be great, you'll never be balanced. That is the sacrifice you make for greatness." And I just was completely blown away because I'd been training people for balance—you know, those three things that I talked about. And then as I learned more about greatness, there's a great book called Relentless by Tim Grover, and it speaks to those athletes that are relentless. And Kelly Slater is a great example in our sport—of doing whatever it takes to be better, to never be satisfied with the job that you did today because tomorrow is a new day. And so, not the healthiest for all of us to get into that mindset—I promise you that. But it's really great for me, working with parents that have kids that they are aspiring to be great at what they do. And I don't care if that's a musician or an athlete or an artist or an academic—if you want to be great, you're going to be different. The sacrifices that you make to be great will not allow you to go to all the birthday parties and go to prom and be popular with this or that group. You are going to be solely focused on greatness. And greatness has everything—one lane. And so that to me has been a great lesson to be able to talk to the parents with intelligence and say, "This is not just coming from me. This is coming from some of the greatest. And if you want your kid to be great, you're going to sacrifice your kid's normalcy. And if that's cool with you, then... I don't know if it's cool with your kid. But that's what it takes to be great." So I not only have a tremendous amount of respect for those that are great—Neil Young is great. He's a little odd, you know? Sorry, Neil. But that's what greatness requires—that you have to go off. So I don't know why I got onto that tangent.
Michael Frampton
That. I like that. And it's good for us as the average athlete to realize that and just set our goals to just be good or better. But what I do like about that is because the great ones—the pioneers, let's call them—they go so into it and so far into it that they help people. People like you who work with that level, you can then translate and figure out what works the best because you're working with the great, the obsessed. And you can translate that into what can we take out of that and put into an everyday life. For example, it's like, well, you and I, we love surfing. We do want to be better. We want to age gracefully and keep surfing. What can we learn from those people today? About how—what to eat. Because we eat anyway. We're going to spend time with meal prep and choosing the right foods. So how do we improve what we're already doing? And we probably already do some other exercise other than surfing, whether that's running or going to the gym or whatever it is. So how can we improve and refine that so that we can be better at surfing and improve our long-term relationship with surfing? So I think good is—and better is—great for us. We can let go of the greatness. Because you're right.
Dr. Tim Brown
It's the progress. Not perfection. You know, when you're looking for perfection, you take a lot of the fun out of it. And for me, the fun better be in the process. With regards to surfing... you're going to be a bummed out guy all the time—or gal. So the process has to be enjoyable. You have to really love that process. And so for me, you know, that includes a lot of laughing, a lot of fun. Along with following the examples of Kellys, the Johns, the Micks—all those guys that have come kind of a little bit before the group that's coming up now—and emulate them. Follow the things that you can and just follow their example. And mimic it. Mimic perfection. It's not a bad thing. At all. You know, you've got to practice that. To make yourself better, you've got to go on this journey that's going to put you into some discomfort. If you're not in discomfort from time to time, you're not growing. And so doing some of these things that the best of the best do is going to not only improve your game, but get you going in that direction. And get your lifestyle and your habits going into a routine that the best of the best have. Because that's what another piece of it is. And again, you spoke about the Kelee meditation—one of the best meditation practices I've ever seen in practice. I mean, you can get it. You can become—you can get a meditation the first time that you try it. And that, for me, is just really wonderful. So I'm stoked that both Matt and Taylor are going to take the time to teach that to a lot of people in our upcoming little seminar here. Because meditation, being able to come into focus, to be able to drop off all the noise and just be, is education that everyone needs to graduate from.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Exactly. And that's exactly it. I mean... the Mind and Movement Masterclass. You've got the best of the best all coming together. You've got yourself, you've got Michael Rintala, Taylor Knox, Matt Griggs. I think even Ron himself is coming along as well at some point. Yeah. And just getting together and imparting enough for the average athlete to take away and improve their lives. I think that's a beautiful philosophy and I wish I was still in America. I could come along. But I didn’t, it to you.
Dr. Tim Brown
Hey, we're going to record that for everybody. Happy to send.
Michael Frampton
Okay, cool. Will that be available for those who can't make it as well later on down the line?
Dr. Tim Brown
Yes, it will.
Michael Frampton
Awesome. Well, Tim, thank you so much for taking the time to give us a little bit of a taste of what is up and coming and for sharing your stories. Thank you so much.
Michael Frampton
Okay, awesome. Well, Tim, thank you so much for taking the time to give us a little bit of a taste of what is up and coming and for sharing your stories. Thank you so much.
Dr. Tim Brown
Absolutely a pleasure and an honor. Nice to meet you, Michael. And thank you for all you're doing to elevate those that are in our sport and to make it more enjoyable so that people can surf for life.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, that's what it's about, man. Just keep surfing. Word. This thing coming up—the Mind and Movement Masterclass—is this the second time it's happened or how many times have you run it?
Taylor Knox
Well, yeah, it is the second time. You're right. We did it last year in a pretty small place just to kind of feel it out, see how the turnout was, and the turnout was great. It sold out pretty quickly. Of course, now that I'm an ambassador with Vuori, they built a new headquarters here with a beautiful outdoor amphitheater at their place, at their headquarters. And it has a screen and stuff. So we're going to do it there. And it'll hold like three times as many people. We're thinking maybe 100, or 80—we're not sure what the count will be—but we're pretty excited about partnering up with them because that's what they're all about. And then we'll be bringing in some of their employees as well. Yeah. And it's been a beautiful journey. For me, after three decades of traveling the world and working with the best, I've always watched where guys wanted to go and who they wanted to work with. And Tim Brown was always the guy that everyone was looking for at the contest when he was working. And when I saw the other physicians watching Tim as well, I'm like, okay, well, this guy's onto something here. He obviously is—people are watching him for a reason. So he'll be there, and he's going to be talking about diet, movement, nutrition, sleep, and stuff like that. We're going to have my trainer, Mike Rintala, there. He's one of the best, if not the best, in America for Dynamic Neuromuscular Stabilization—DNS. He's a doctor, a chiropractor, and that's who I've been training with for the last seven years. So I really have enjoyed working with him. He's got a really evenly-keeled demeanor. And now that I'm so deeply into DNS, it's just been a fantastic journey of learning how to move and what my body does—what I didn't think it could do anymore, it's doing again. Which is just kind of turning back the clock a little bit, which is strange. You just don't know if it can ever happen. Sometimes you're like, am I just a fool right now? Am I barking up the wrong tree? And so far, the tree keeps giving. So I'm going to keep going up the tree with him for a while. Of course, Matt and I will be talking about surf technique, Kelee meditation—the journeys we've been on with healing meditation, why and how we found it, and why we stuck with it. Then the founder of the Healy Foundation, Ron Rathbun, is going to show up and he's going to speak and answer questions as well. So it'll be good. We're going to have a lot of cool prizes and giveaways and raffles and good food. So it'll be a good day.
Michael Frampton
I mean, you're a perfect icon of that sort of surf performance and health longevity. So is it sort of an accumulation of that and teaching what you've learned over the years to a wider audience?
Taylor Knox
Essentially? Yeah. I mean, for sure, it's always been a passion. Because when I went to France or South Africa, I'd always be looking for the best guys—trainers, masseuses. I would ask the local guys that lived there, "Where do you train and who do you get to work on your body?" And so I was constantly looking. I don't know, it's just something I've been naturally interested in. I want to learn all I can. Fix the body yourself, or at least find people that can help guide you in that direction. And I just believe that decades of surfing around the world and traveling really give you insight. Like, 100 million people may say this one thing over here is the best thing you've ever done in your life. And then you might find some guy that trains differently in Africa that no one's ever heard of and go, "I don't know, this guy over here that no one's given attention to actually is onto something. He's like a mad scientist in his own little world over here." And just because he doesn't have the followers, I really believe in what he's doing. So, you know, that's what it is for me. There's a golden thread of truth in everything I've come across, and I've come across a lot. And for me, this is assembling the dream team. And hopefully, we'd like to add some more people to it as well—add more modalities down the road. It's kind of just the beginning. This is just the beginning of the vision that Tim and Mike and Matt and I have. We want to create a community where the bright minds that really help people around the world get together. Because if you ever meet anyone and they're like, "Yeah, I have all the answers," then that would be a big warning sign to me—because no one does. And I want to get all these guys together in the same room and talk and hear their opinions and what they think. You know, how would you go about a torn hamstring? Well, Tim might go about it one way and Mike might go about it another way. I love how each one attacks it. So that's been my thought with putting this little team together—something we can do moving forward.
Michael Frampton
Have you had any injuries recently?
Michael Rintala
Yep. Hamstring?
Dr. Tim Brown
Hamstring?
Taylor Knox
Since I saw you, I tore my adductor off. In one leg, I tore a hamstring in the other leg. And now I'm kind of dealing with a real sore hip. But my knee has come back amazing, you know, which has been a beauty. That thing really tortured me for like a decade—three surgeries. The last one and the training I did worked out well. Of course, with my style of surfing, my back leg has gotten a lot of use. There's a lot of wheel, you know, and I don't think I need surgery at the moment, but it's something I need to take care of for sure.
Michael Frampton
Having that turnaround of your knee, what do you put that down to?
Taylor Knox
Well, first of all, this new technology that came out for surgery—where they can do a partial knee replacement. And like, Dr. Warren Kramer did my surgery. He does a lot of guys that go through injuries in surfing. Most of the top dudes go to him. But he goes, "Hold on. You might be a perfect candidate. There's this robot. I'm getting this robot." And I...
Michael Frampton
Sounds like a robot. That sounds kind of sketchy.
Taylor Knox
You know, like... And he's like, "No, it's great. Human hands can shake a little bit. They can, you know—the human eye—there’s just room for error. With a machine, there's no error." So anyway, I went in and I did it. And I was like the ninth person—I think first person for sure. And the rehab is—you know, you gotta be really dedicated to rehab. And I was. And it's turned out to be a great way. I've gotten way more out of my knee than I ever dreamed about. And I'm living pain-free.
Michael Frampton
Partial knee replacement? So what—they just replaced the cartilage? What do they replace?
Taylor Knox
Well, imagine—so my lateral meniscus wore out, which is the outside of your knee. I got to be bone on bone, and then that was really painful. And, you know, basically, I couldn't surf. So what they do is—it's kind of like they go in and it's like a router, right? They'll take a CT scan of your knee, your tibia plateau, so that the robot knows what it's working with. It kind of locks into the CT scan and your bone. And then it's like a router. It goes in there and just routers out the bone and puts in a titanium plate. And then a titanium plate above. So it's just two titanium plates that are rubbed together. So, you know, there's no pain. They never wear out.
Michael Frampton
Wow. So you don't need another surgery for the rest of your life? That's cool.
Taylor Knox
Yeah. It is cool. It's really cool. Because without that, my career would have been over a couple of years ago. Total knee replacement used to be the only option, but it turns out it's not.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, well, I'm bone on bone now with my knee because I had ACL surgery, you know, 20 years ago, and the cartilage finally wore out. So it's bone on bone. And, you know, the surgeon said, "Look, total knee replacement is the only option," but it turns out it's not.
Taylor Knox
Yeah, the machine is called Mako—like Mako Shark—M-A-K-O. And they're using them a lot over here. I think they're actually starting to use them for hips as well. Yeah, a little scary, you know, like what if the robot skips out or something?
Michael Frampton
Well, the future is bright.
Taylor Knox
But no, it was a really good experience.
Michael Frampton
And the rehab? Was that Mike?
Taylor Knox
That was Mike and another friend of mine named Gina Stinko, and he does ART—which is active release technique. Yeah, and he's one of the top—yeah, I mean, he's definitely in the top three of the country. He's on the board and stuff. He's an instructor, traveling around with a golfer.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. So it's obvious—if there's no more friction from bone on bone, there's going to be less swelling, I assume?
Taylor Knox
There's no swelling. There's no swelling at all.
Michael Frampton
Wow. So does it feel better than your other knee?
Taylor Knox
It does. My knee hasn't felt this good in like 15 years.
Michael Frampton
Wow.
Taylor Knox
Yeah, my other knee is still good. It's fine. It's funny because all the issues are going on the right side of my body, which—you know—that's my power leg. On my left side, my body's great. I have no problems over there at all.
Michael Rintala
Funny. Okay. There are probably a lot of listeners that won't be able to make it to this seminar. What can we leave—what's one piece of advice we can leave them with—for surfing longevity?
Michael Frampton
Wow. Okay. There are probably a lot of listeners that won't be able to make it to this seminar. What can we leave—what's one piece of advice we can leave them with—for surfing longevity?
Taylor Knox
Surfing longevity. I mean, I just did a little film with Vuori called The Body Follows the Mind. And it's true. You know? How you heal is going to be how you feel. So you should feel good about your process and your rehabbing. I really feel like—and people know this—that stress can affect the body. And just think about stress—it can be little or extreme. But your feelings and how you feel about what you're doing and how your life is going is a big factor. It has a big determination on your healing. So I always tell people, don't be hard on yourself. Don’t beat yourself up. Beating yourself up isn't going to help. It's definitely not the way to get better at anything. I used to do that a lot—beat myself up. So I learned that instead of beating yourself up, try to just focus on where you want to go in life. You're going to have challenges—we all do. Nobody's immune to that, that’s for sure. But always know that when you find your center, it never has to do with anyone else. It’s something very personal to you. Try to look within for all your answers is what I’m trying to say. And I think when you can get your own blocks out of your own way, you’ll find all the answers you’re looking for.
Michael Frampton
I like that. I like that. And I think it was episode 34 where you and I first did this podcast, and we went into that in a lot more detail. So I'll put a link to that episode in the show notes for those listening. Yeah. Awesome, Taylor. Well, thank you so much for coming back on to chat about this.
Taylor Knox
Thanks a lot too for having me on, Michael. Appreciate it. And the Mindful Masterclass.
Michael Frampton
For being involved with the up-and-coming movement and Mindful Masterclass. Tim and I did—Tim Brown?
Michael Rintala
So it was kind of... Did you go to the one that Tim and I did? Tim Brown?
Michael Frampton
It was—we did—yeah. At Huntington Beach. I forget what we called it. Mind and Mood? Something similar, something Masterclass. So we took that idea. And then just working with Taylor, it was like, we should do something DNS surfing-based. Which we did. We did some stuff. I've done some stuff with Tim Brown. And then last year we did another DNS surf with Taylor, and then Tim talked as well. But then we just had that inspiration or idea—it’s like, hey, why don’t we combine the movement with the mind, the meditation, the Kelee meditation. So we started—had that idea of putting something together. And then we wanted to make it a little more surf specific. So we brought Tim on—Tim Brown. Have you had a session with him yet?
Michael Rintala
Yes. So, yeah.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, I had a good chat with him. Yep. Yeah, we were just like, okay, let’s put it all together. And we did it last year around the same time, and we really enjoyed it. The people that were there enjoyed it. So we’re like, okay, let’s do it again. But this time, the setting will be different. It'll be at Vuori—at their headquarters, which has a nice outdoor setup, like little steps, like a stadium. They have a big screen we can use. So, yeah, we’re going to make it happen for the second time.
Michael Rintala
Yeah, he's a good chatter. And so, yeah, we just liked—okay, let’s put it all together. And we did it last year around the same time, and we really enjoyed it. The people that were there enjoyed it. So we’re like, okay, let’s do it again. But this time the setting will be different. It'll be at Vuori—their headquarters. Which has a nice outdoor space, like little stadium steps. They have a big screen we can use. So, yeah, we're going to make it happen for the second time.
Michael Frampton
Cool. Thanks. Movement to blend mind and—
Michael Rintala
You know how to blend mind and body. The more you learn about the human body and the human condition, I think the more you understand there isn't really much separation between the two.
Michael Frampton
Yep. The more you learn about the human body and the human condition, the more you understand there isn't really much separation between the two. So, yeah, it’s already part of the central nervous system, part of the mind. And then the big thing with Kelee—being able to quiet or focus the mind—balances the autonomic nervous system. So you have sympathetic and parasympathetic. The better that’s balanced, the better you can express the inborn motor patterns that we’re all born with. That’s where DNS—Dynamic Neuromuscular Stabilization—and movement efficiency comes into it. So if you balance the mind, you balance the body. Then you produce durability, longevity, and movement quality. So yes, having both is going to be best for long term.
Michael Rintala
Right. Yeah. I mean, with DNS—Dynamic Neuromuscular Stabilization—the central nervous system is basically controlling the synergy, coordination, and timing of all the musculature to produce efficient movement. So, yeah, it’s already part of the central nervous system—part of the mind. And the big thing with Kelee—being able to quiet or focus the mind—balances the autonomic nervous system. So you have sympathetic and parasympathetic. The better that’s balanced, the better you can express the inborn motor patterns we’re all born with. And that’s where DNS—the dynamic neuromuscular stabilization—comes in with movement efficiency. So if you balance the mind, you balance the body, then you produce durability and longevity of movement quality. So yes, having both is best for the long term.
Michael Frampton
I see a lot of similarities, because in a lot of ways, meditation is actually about doing less. It's about allowing the present moment to be louder than all the other stuff. It’s about taking away. And then DNS is kind of similar, right? It’s about allowing efficient movement, rather than you getting in the way or trying to force anything. Then, if we see compensatory or high-threshold patterns of movement—which are going to get in the way of efficiency—then we give people things to do and train to quiet those compensatory or high-threshold patterns, and then be able to express those inborn patterns. And when you’re able to express those patterns, it’s not cortical function—you’re not overthinking it—you’re just expressing it. Then you’re moving naturally without thinking about it. So yes, similarities with the goal of meditation.
Michael Rintala
Exactly. It’s allowing the inborn, hardwired motor patterns to express themselves. They’re all in our subcortical region of the central nervous system. And if we can let them express themselves how they’re supposed to be expressed, then the movement efficiency improves. So, the one thing initially with DNS is—usually when we assess—we’ll assess the efficiency of the movement quality, efficiency or inefficiency. And then, if we see compensatory or high-threshold patterns of movement—which will get in the way of efficiency—then we give people things to do and train to quiet those compensatory or high-threshold patterns. And then, be able to express those inborn patterns. And when you’re able to express those patterns, it’s not the cortical function—you’re not overthinking it—you’re just expressing it. And then you're moving naturally without thinking about it. So yes, similarities with the goal of meditation.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, it's a good summary. And the thing I like—before I did your course, I remember there was a group, I think it was DNS for Surfing from memory. I'd already done probably 50 one-on-one DNS sessions, and I'd done, I think, Level 1—the introduction course to DNS—and it was all very technical and quite heady, even for someone sort of coming from that health and fitness world. But what I really liked about the course with you and your wife is you guys just simplified it so much. And made it very practical. So I think there were even some people there who weren’t from a health and fitness background that could get it as well.
Michael Rintala
The goal with the Mind and Movement Masterclass is more of that—like move, simplify it—whereas the coursework, yeah, you know, you dive deeper into the developmental kinesiology and central nervous system. And it can—especially when you're first taking courses, like the introduction—be a little bit overwhelming. But the ultimate goal is the movement, right? Teaching-wise, for me, learning—if I can move, I can feel it—then I integrate it better. And so that's my style of teaching. Okay, let's move and let's feel it. And let’s feel what we talk about with the coursework.
Michael Frampton
I remember the photo you guys had—there were a couple of photos of, I think, Kelly Slater and John John—just in a nice, relaxed, efficient surf stance. And then next to it was one of the DNS pictures of the infant. And the correlations are just so obvious.
Michael Rintala
The athletes that rise to the top and are the top performers—they have that ability to express those inborn motor patterns on the subcortical central nervous system level. But they have really good cortical function, meaning awareness—awareness of their environment. They can input information from the environment, process it, and then express what needs to be done to move within that environment. And so, like Kelly Slater, John John, other athletes—Michael Jordan, Roger Federer—you see the athletes that you watch them and they just move. It’s like they move so effortlessly. And that’s just that quality of the expression of those patterns. And the athletes that have that ability and have that efficiency, they not only move efficiently, but they have that ability to relax and be more efficient people. As to where they need to stabilize in order to conserve energy and again, move with efficiency. Versus athletes that rely more on the high-threshold compensatory pattern, and you see tension. They still do well, but they have to rely more on speed and strength. Whereas the really efficient movers, they just make it look so effortless and they’re so relaxed. And then with that, you see longevity and durability throughout their career. So when we do the Mind and Movement Masterclass, we’re going to be talking about that. We’re going to be giving people tools, movement-wise, to help them achieve that. But then yeah, with the Kelee meditation, we’re going to be addressing the mind as well—just as much, if not more.
Michael Frampton
Important. Yeah. No, they go hand in hand. And then Tim obviously is going to be talking about nutrition and sleep and stuff as well. So it’s very holistic. And if you want to get better at surfing—and if you want to surf until you’re, you know, in your eighties—then it really is that simple: learn how to move better. Really. I mean, surfing is movement. And the best surfers in the world move really efficiently. And you can even see in the background on the DNS poster behind you—for those that are watching—is the first image there of the baby lying down. I mean, that’s a surfer paddling. Simple as that.
Michael Rintala
Yeah. Like right there maybe? Yeah. And here—popping up.
Michael Frampton
Exactly. Yep, the first image—that’s the surfer paddling. Popping up.
Michael Rintala
That poster—that represents... So when we're first born, our central nervous system is immature. Functionally and structurally, we’re immature, right? And as the central nervous system matures and our body matures, there are certain periods of time—developmental milestones—where we can achieve different positions because we’re expressing those inborn motor patterns differently. So you see the infant—this is at three months right here—you have the ability to create a stable point through the trunk and pelvis. You can lift the head. You can start to look around or lift your feet out of the base of support. But then, as everything matures, you start to become more dynamic and you can get to higher, more unstable positions. The central nervous system expresses these inborn motor patterns as they are maturing, and eventually, you're standing. That position right there—yeah. So oblique squat—that’s a common one when you pop up and you’re on the board and you’re maneuvering and surfing. And the thing too—it’s like if you look at the whole sequence from prone—that’s kind of like your pop-up, right? Your pop-up, you come to standing, and then you’re down into the position and maneuvering on the wave. When the infant is going through this development, they’re not thinking, “Put my foot here, put my hand here.” They’re just expressing the patterns that are facilitated at certain periods of time during that first 18 months of life. And if we develop in a healthy way, in a healthy environment, those patterns—we still have them up here. So as adults, we can still tap into that. We can still create that quality of synergy, coordination, and timing throughout the chains of movement. And there are ways—again, with specific exercises and the movements and the quality of support—where we can improve that expression. If we improve that expression, we improve movement quality. We create durability and longevity. And it’s something you can practice—it’s like a movement meditation. A lot of the athletes that I work with—surfers, baseball players, and others—the big thing we do is we give them these series or similar positions, but then being able to transition from one position to the next so they’re constantly reinforcing this ideal expression. Then, when they paddle out, they’re popping up—that’s expressing itself. And so you can use it. It’s a great movement preparation for people to utilize in whatever their sport may be. And in this case, the focus will be more on the surf athlete.
Michael Frampton
So, yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks for coming on the show, and I urge people to get along to it. There’ll be links in the show notes to everything. And I would have done a big intro before this to explain it all. Thanks, Michael. Appreciate it. Awesome.
Michael Rintala
Thank you. Thanks for having me on. Great to see you again.
Michael Frampton
I’ve got another question for you while I’ve got you on the phone, actually. What are your thoughts on vestibular and ocular training?
Michael Rintala
I think it's great. Especially as part of the somatosensory input. So input from the environment—the better that quality of input, the better you can process and provide optimal output. We talk about with DNS and the central nervous system—there are inborn motor patterns. But a huge factor is your quality of somatosensory input and awareness—cortical function. So it's a great adjunct to the DNS work. And one thing I really enjoy about DNS is it’s not something where it's like, “Stop doing that, just do this.” You can integrate DNS concepts and principles into whatever you're doing—weightlifting, visual training, vestibular training. So it's great. Everything kind of works together. DNS is like the fascia or the connection between everything that helps it all work together more efficiently.
Michael Frampton
Okay. Yeah. I’ve done the Dr. Cobb from Z-Health—I’ve done his courses on ocular and vestibular. Any other resources in that regard you’ve come across or would recommend?
Michael Rintala
I've done those courses as well. I highly recommend them. There are some PhD students out of Prague School of Rehabilitation that are focusing on exactly what you described. I’m hoping in 2025 to get them over here and integrate the two. So stay tuned on that.
Michael Frampton
Cool. That’s exciting. So adding some DNS thinking to Dr. Cobb’s sort of work—is that what they’re doing? I think Posture Pro is another one. I can’t remember the exact name, but I forget her name. Great integration with that training as well. I think it—they—it’s perfect. They go hand in hand.
Michael Rintala
Exactly. Yeah. I mean, yeah, other than Z-Health, I really like it. I think there are some other resources out there. I think Posture Pro is another one. I can’t remember the exact name, but yeah, I forget her name. Great integration with that training as well. I think they go hand in hand.
Michael Frampton
Posture Pro—they combine it with a lot of footwork as well.
Michael Rintala
Huge thing to integrate. There’s so much—so many things you can integrate and put together to help us move better and feel better.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. I know, there’s a lot out there. You’ve got to find the time, but you’re the body. And I urge everyone listening to head along and join in. The link’s in the show notes. Again, Michael, thank you for your time. Appreciate it. I’ll let you go. Thank you.
105 Dr. Tim Brown + Taylor Knox + Michael Rintala
For the passionate surfer—whether you're a weekend warrior, a surf dad, or an older surfer—this podcast is all about better surfing and deeper stoke. With expert surf coaching, surf training, and surfing tips, we’ll help you catch more waves, refine your paddling technique, and perfect your pop up on a surfboard. From surf workouts to handling wipeouts, chasing bigger waves, and mastering surf technique, we’re here to make sure you not only improve but truly enjoy surfing more—so you can get more out of every session and become a wiser surfer. Go from Beginner or intermediate Surfer to advanced.