96 Nic Laidlaw - From Hawaii to Home: How the Ocean Connected Me to My True Self
What if true health, strength, and wisdom didn’t come from hustle culture—but from saltwater, stillness, and honest self-reflection?
In this powerful episode, Nic Laidlaw opens up about the healing power of surfing, parenting three boys, and his transformation from competitive surfer to movement mentor and retreat leader. Whether you're recovering from injury, rethinking your lifestyle, or questioning modern definitions of masculinity, Nic’s insights will shift your perspective on what it really means to be a healthy human.
Learn how Nic recovered from a major knee injury using holistic tools like breathwork, nutrition, and cold therap
Discover why nature—not hustle—should be your foundation for health, strength, and masculinity
Explore the value of surf retreats, mentorship, and spiritual connection in shaping the next generation
Tap play now and discover how to build deeper health, purpose, and stoke—through surfing, self-awareness, and slowing down.
Nic's website: https://www.balancedstudio.com.au
Nic's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/balancedstudio/?hl=en
Nic's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzvueZRjFkiDFuk1Ial0Oqg
Key Points
Influence from studying with Paul Cech and the impact of his holistic and nuanced approach to health and wellness.
Importance of leadership by example, particularly in parenting, as emphasized by Nic and his approach to mentoring young men.
Nic's recent knee injuries, recovery process, and the accelerated healing regimen he followed, including physical therapy and lifestyle adjustments.
Nic's approach to running health retreats, emphasizing holistic wellness, connection with nature, and the importance of nutrition.
The impact of influential figures like Tom Cowell on Nic's life and work, highlighting the value of mentorship and community in personal growth.
Discussion on the crisis of masculinity and the importance of celebrating and teaching traditional masculine values in a balanced and healthy way.
Reflection on big wave surfing as an initiation into manhood, emphasizing the lessons learned from pushing personal limits and confronting fears.
Nic's journey from competitive surfing to establishing his own studio, driven by the desire to surf every day and work with people.
Outline
Surfing and Personal Growth
Nic shared their transformative experience of going to Hawaii at 17, which significantly impacted their perspective and relationship with nature.
Nic emphasized the powerful influence of the ocean and nature on personal growth and self-awareness.
Surf Mastery Coaching Program
Michael introduced a six-week online coaching course focused on the fundamentals of surfing, aimed at self-taught intermediate surfers and applicable to all levels.
The course is a summary of lessons learned through years of experience as a surf coach and personal surfing journey.
Surfboards and Surfing Locations
Nic and Michael discussed various surfboards, including Gary McNeil boards and their personal experiences with different models.
They shared experiences surfing in locations like San Diego, Encinitas, and the east coast of Australia, highlighting the unique characteristics of each location.
Paul Cech's Influence and Teachings
Nic discussed the impact of studying with Paul Cech, emphasizing the importance of foundational principles in health, movement, and lifestyle.
Nic highlighted the concept of being a 'wounded healer' and the need for a nuanced, non-linear approach to health and wellness.
Parenting and Leadership
Nic and Michael discussed the importance of leading by example in parenting, emphasizing that children emulate parental behavior more than verbal instructions.
They shared their experiences and philosophies on raising children, including the value of exposing them to nature and fostering a love for the ocean.
Injury Recovery and Health Practices
Nic detailed their recovery process from a knee injury, including a full MCL tear and partial ACL and PCL tears, and the importance of consistent movement and health practices.
They discussed the use of ice baths, saunas, breathwork, and nutrition in their recovery regimen.
Retreats and Health Optimization
Nic explained their approach to running health and wellness retreats, focusing on embodiment of principles, connection with nature, and community.
They discussed the integration of movement, nutrition, and breathwork in their retreats, aiming to help participants optimize their health and well-being.
Influences and Mentorship
Nic mentioned influential figures in their life, including Paul Cech, Ido Portal, and Tom Cowell, highlighting their impact on Nic's personal and professional growth.
They emphasized the importance of seeking out mentors and the value of community and support in personal development.
Masculinity and Cultural Balance
Nic and Michael discussed the crisis of masculinity and the importance of celebrating and balancing masculine and feminine strengths within society.
They highlighted the role of nature and physical challenges, such as big wave surfing, in the initiation and growth of young men.
Personal Aspirations and Lifestyle
Nic shared their aspiration to surf every day and the importance of carving out a lifestyle that allows for personal passions and family well-being.
They discussed the concept of true wealth as health, exercise, and organic food, rather than material possessions.
Transcription
Nic Laidlaw
My biggest one was going to Hawaii when I was 17. I felt like I just came back a different person. Because it was in that six weeks, there's just so many times where I pushed myself beyond where I thought I'd go. The relationship that I formed with the ocean, it never failed to make me feel so small in the scheme of things that it feels like it really puts you in your place. So that's like, I'll speak of that with my relationship to the ocean and to nature in general. It's like, it's so powerful that it's hard to actually measure how powerful it is. But you don't know until you're in an ocean that's big enough to squish you if it wanted to.
Michael Frampton
Welcome back to the Surf Mastery Podcast. That is a couple of quotes from Nic Laidlaw, today's guest. Nic is a health coach, a movement coach, a ridiculously good surfer, a father, and a man full of wisdom. We discuss health and wellness, Paul Cech, leadership, parenting, connecting with nature, injury recovery—knees in particular—health retreats, mentors, masculinity, big wave surfing as an initiation to manhood, plus much more. You can follow and find out more about Nic at Balanced Studio on Instagram and balancedstudio.com.au. And of course, links to all that in the show notes. But before I fade in that interview, I want to let you guys know about my coaching program which starts next week. It's a six-week online coaching course teaching the fundamentals of surfing, mainly targeted to the self-taught intermediate but applicable for all levels. And it's a summary of all of the lessons that I've learned through doing this podcast and working on my own surfing and as a surf coach over the last 10 years. Spaces are limited. It is already half full, so if you are interested, to find out more just go to surfmastery.com, and of course links in the show notes. But without further ado... I will give you my conversation with Nic Laidlaw. Take care, man. Good, how are you?
Nic Laidlaw
Good thanks, I recognise that surfboard.
Michael Frampton
Far, yeah.
Nic Laidlaw
Gary McNeil? Is that right?
Michael Frampton
It sure is. A surfer's eye is always drawn to that.
Nic Laidlaw
Shape. Yeah, 100%. And then that right-hand rip bowl in the background. Ha.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, that board... It's been a while, bro. It's been ages. I was living in Avalon when I bought that board. It was... yeah. It is a gem, you know, it was just the stock board. It was just on the shelf at Ripco Narrabeen.
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah, I'll get one day again, McNeil, for sure. I love all the sacred geometry and all the principles he speaks about. It's so.
Michael Frampton
Awesome. Yeah. I actually had a different one that I bought from Patagonia in San Diego, a different model, slightly bigger one. And I left it on the sidewalk outside. I was surfing Swamis in San Diego. I was getting changed and it was busy and I had other boards in the car. And I drove off and I said, no, I left that board on the sidewalk. Did a U-turn, came back, it was gone. So someone out there—however long it took me to drive around the block. But you know what it's like, you know what it's like, you can't just do it. There's a...
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah, you got to get back on the highway pretty...
Michael Frampton
Much. Okay, yeah, you got it. So it would have taken me at least seven minutes probably.
Nic Laidlaw
That's awesome. Devastating.
Michael Frampton
So someone out there has a Gary McNeil that they picked up for free. I hope they're enjoying it.
Nic Laidlaw
Guiltily shredding it. Those bastards. That would suit the energy of those waves over there, yeah.
Michael Frampton
Hey. Yeah, for sure. Everyone's into alternative boards over there.
Nic Laidlaw
Well, it seems a bit, especially that part of the coast in like from Carlsbad or even a bit further down there. It feels like it's just a bit softer, maybe. Or maybe that was just the energy that I got when I was there. But it just feels like a little bit slopier, a little bit slower moving waves than what I'm used to.
Michael Frampton
It's different. Perhaps. Yeah, it's definitely a bit more gentle than the east coast of Australia. User-friendly is a bit of a word. Yeah, that's...
Nic Laidlaw
It. Yeah, I reckon. Sick fun. I had so many fun waves down there around Encinitas and even further towards Mexico. Yeah, so much fun.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, it's paradise around that part of the world.
Nic Laidlaw
It is. It is. It's a really good setup.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, not just for surfing, just the vibes and everything.
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah. No, my wife Maddie and I traveled there because I went there to San Diego to study with Paul Cech. And so we spent like six weeks just traveling up the coast and back down again and it was so much fun. We both had heaps of fun waves. I took, so we took...
Michael Frampton
What board were you riding? And you were surfing over there then?
Nic Laidlaw
Because it wasn't just a surfing trip, we did like state parks and went into the cities and just explored around. So we took two boards. I took a like a 6'2", kind of thick single fin. And then we had a five and really wide, really flat twinny that could be converted into a quad. So it was kind of like Maddie and I could both ride either of those boards. Yeah. And I spent most of the time on the twinny that could be converted into a quad. Frank Tachibana shaped both of them, and he's a mate of mine and hand-shaped them both. And they're fun boards. I still ride his Fishes and his Shorties, so they're epic. And I probably have gone a bit—if I was there again, I'd probably ride more of like a long fish, I reckon. For those points around Santa Cruz and stuff. Yeah, good call. Pleasure Point. Yeah, I'd probably have a long fish these days if I was back there again. I did some body surfing too. We had such fun, just a fun time. Yeah. California was really good to...
Michael Frampton
Us. Yeah. So you were there doing the Paul Cech stuff. What's the biggest takeaway from doing the Paul Cech stuff?
Nic Laidlaw
Well, every time I've studied with Paul Cech face-to-face... He kind of reiterates a similar sentiment of like, you hear... because you want to help people and you want to help, you know, with the healing process of people or the optimization of your client's health. But what we're really here for is, you know? And so he pretty much uses the foundation principles that he teaches, whether it's about the scientific movement principles or whether it's the holistic lifestyle principles. The principles of health are very basic. It's like the mental, emotional, and the thought process. It's hydration. It's the rhythms that we sleep in. It's the breathing. It's the movement. It's the nutrition. That's our chemistry. So he'll kind of lay down those foundations and see how it applies to you with a series of, you know, sharmatic work, breath work, infant development, movement patterns, obviously nutrition, gut health and all of those things and just applies protocols to you and asks a lot of questions of you in order to understand your own physiology a lot better. And then... yeah, then the idea is to pretty much open the textbook when you get home and see how you can further delve into those principles and share them with your clients. So that was a long way of answering. I think the biggest takeaway is like full acceptance that we're all wounded healers, you know? So like that's... and he exemplifies that with every word that he speaks, you know? So that we're all on our own journey and that we don't need to be like perfect or we don't need to know everything in order to help other people. Another thing is it's a very nuanced world and we need to stop thinking in a linear way—pathway—just like we need to stop moving in a linear pathway. And how you do anything is how you do everything, so just broadening our ideas and our headspace to a more nuanced existence. And then, you know, that was in 2015–16. Since then we had children, crazy bushfires in Australia, we had all the whole COVID debacle, and it's like that really put me in good stead just to be able to sit back and watch and just be accepting of other people's views and behaviors, whether it's along the same line of my thinking or not. You know, it's just that there's a... everything starts with Paul Cech with the yin and the yang. And that's why I've got that on the logo of my own business as well, because it's such a broadly painted brush, that symbol, that symbology. But it's so deep in its essence that you just cannot have one existing, dancing, coexisting without the other. You know, we need the sun to be setting for us to rest and regenerate so that we can go and get it the next day. We need the winter cooler months so we can go and really send it and get, you know, put ourselves on the line and get pitted and have a really nice rugged winter. Then we can come into summer and just cruise. And, you know, we need the fiery relationships in order to cater to our softer side. Like it's all... it's like a fully embodied concept. And he's spent a lot of his life studying the yin-yang philosophy. And I just think that applies to everything, you know? And so he's imparted that in a really broad way to me just to help me being less dogmatic. I think as humans, we're drawn to like wanting a parameter to work or work with or to work to have us guide us. He just blows that out the window and is like, "No, sorry. It's not that easy." You need to be—it's not need to be—but it might be helpful to be more open. More open than that, you know, less discerning than that. You know, discernment is certainly something he's very good at, because he doesn't suffer fools. But at the same time, it's just like, it's not as... it's not the easiest path to walk and live and talk and, you know, with a truly open mind and an open approach and a curious approach to things. But, from the living example of how I'm trying to do it and how I'm trying to impart that on my children. And to a certain degree, the studio that I run. You know? And it's not as easy for people to grasp and get in the door straight away. Or for kids, you know, especially, you know, kids, they want discernment. They need discernment sometimes. And that's important. But overall, giving them less direct answers and encouraging them to think for themselves, I think it's going to... we'll see. They're only four now, but we'll see. I think it's going to foster, you know, a broad creative mind.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, well, what's inherent in the way Paul Cech is—well, what he imparted to you and his students—was the necessity for leadership by example. Whereas you're there to work on yourself first and foremost.
Nic Laidlaw
100%, dude.
Michael Frampton
And that's with kids. It doesn't matter what you tell your kids, does not matter what you tell them. They'll do what you do—monkey see, monkey do.
Nic Laidlaw
A hundred percent. They hear you to a degree, but they see you more than anything. They see it, you know, and it's, you know, how you treat, how the house, how the vibration of the household is, you know, how you treat other people in the house, you know, how I, how my wife and I relate and connect, and that's what they're seeing. And then how we connect to them, that's what they see and feel. You know, that's their language of like, of a reality to a certain extent, you know? Your parents are just everything for those first, those formative years until you start getting out in the world more. And you're kind of demonstrating what's, you know, like I hate to say it, but it's like what truth is. Because even if it might not be the most correct in the scheme of things, or it might not match up with other people's value systems, that's all they have as their examples in front of them. And so this, I remember, you know, I just thought everything my parents told me as a kid was gospel. And then you start seeking out mentors, you start seeing what your mates are doing, what their parents are doing. And it's like, okay. And the world begins to broaden naturally, which is great. But at a very young age, you kind of need that just solidarity from your folks, your parent or your parents, just to... yeah, show you the way, as in... not by what you say, but by the way that I live.
Michael Frampton
Yes. Yeah. So, yeah. So three boys?
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah. Three big... big energy boys.
Michael Frampton
Yep. That's something, that's another passion we share.
Nic Laidlaw
Yes. You got... you do have three boys?
Michael Frampton
All boys? Yeah, three boys.
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah. Yeah, right. Wow. It's wild. And how old are yours?
Michael Frampton
So 12, nine, and eight.
Nic Laidlaw
Wow, bro. That's... they're four and a half.
Michael Frampton
Amazing. And how old are yours now?
Nic Laidlaw
They're turning five this year. Yeah. Yeah, so we had them all at once.
Michael Frampton
Yes. Triplets. That's awesome.
Nic Laidlaw
I know, dude. It has been absolutely nuts. You know? These last five or six years since it all went down and we found out that we were having triplets and then we were having three boys. And it's like, wow, I feel like I'm just landing now. To a degree, it's still landing. I still can't believe it. But then there's some moments where you're just like, look how big they are. We went surfing together on the weekend and had so much fun. I got down there and I'm like, I got to go run, grab my board up on the hill. And just getting on, you know, having them on the front of the board and pushing, like getting paddling the waves together and just like watching their little, you know, their bodies trying to stand up and trying to grapple with it, and then watching the other two on the shore, just getting smashed and just coming up. They're just so... I think because I haven't necessarily got them surfing early, but I've got them in the ocean early, and they're just, they've got their little life jackets on, their weddies, and they just, like, they just get so pumped on the shorey and they just love it, you know? It's... I think it's been demonstrated from early on that the ocean's pretty safe for them. Now they're so confident. I'm trying to teach them a bit more respect because they're so little still. But they've always just felt safe with me and Maddie in the ocean. So they don't mind getting a pounding. And I just think that's going to set them up so well if they do decide to surf when they're a bit older. Just to not be too adverse to coming unstuck or getting flogged every now and then.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, and that's the right attitude. As long as they feel comfortable at the beach, I think that's enough. If you're a surfer and you have kids, that's the bar. Just have them enjoy the ocean or the beach itself.
Nic Laidlaw
Exactly. Just enjoying nature. We spend just as much time up at our national, you know, West Head, the national park in Sydney. We spend just as much time up there getting in the bush and getting in the creek there as we do the ocean. But more than that, yeah, for one thing, I'd love them to just feel comfortable and love the ocean, whether they surf or not. But more than even expanding upon that, I just want them to be in awe of nature, just like me and Maddie are, just like me and my wife are, you know, just because it gives us so much, you know. So to form that relationship from an early age, I think, yeah, they're doing pretty well.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, I'm reading a book by Steven Rinella about getting kids more into nature. It's really...
Nic Laidlaw
Good. Cool. And I bet there's a lot of practices or ideas that you've probably already implemented that you'll be like giving yourself a bit of a pat on the back.
Michael Frampton
Definitely. But then a lot of different things, even just like you're saying, like your kids should know the species of every flora and fauna in your backyard, for example.
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah, for sure.
Michael Frampton
Like just something as simple as that just helps them engage with that little part of their nature on a deeper level. Because, you know, you and I, we have access to a decent vehicle in nature, but he's speaking to people that have an apartment in New York, you know, where they live.
Nic Laidlaw
Absolutely, I think that's where you start, you know? For sure, because that's realistic. But I love that concept as well, and it makes me think, you know, I'm sure everyone's got, your three kids have got their own flavors and things that they're drawn to more or less, but one of our boys, River, he's just so into animals, creatures, nature, and he wants to know every bird that's around, and he does know every bird that's around. It's the same with other ground animals. When we go down south, and wallabies, the kangaroos and stuff, he just rocks, you know, like there's something innate in some of us that just are drawn to these creatures, and it really feeds this hunger he's got for knowledge without him knowing that it's a hunger for... I love that.
Michael Frampton
Knowledge? Yeah. I love that.
Nic Laidlaw
Pretty epic.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. So how's... what have you been up to surfing-wise? You're still surfing heaps?
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah, well, I'm actually in week 10 of a full MCL tear and a partial ACL and PCL tear. So my whole knee—ACL at the front, I know you know—but ACL at the front, MCL is the inside of the knee, and then the back of the knee. So I had a jiu-jitsu accident, I'll call it, when sparring with another member of the gym. And... it's just super unfortunate what happened, but essentially I hyperextended my knee and just heard a myriad of pops. And so I was just completely out for a while. But in saying that, just this weekend gone by, I had my first... I'm not meant to surf till like week 16, so I'm hoping my physio is not going to hear this, but I got to week 10 and I did. On Sunday morning, I woke up and North Ave, like where I live, there's this little left hand that when the bank's good—the sand's really good at the moment—just breaks so far out, just tapering down the beach. And I was just, the last two weeks, I'm like, I'm feeling dangerously good, you know? And I know the ligament's healed because I know how to test it and I can feel it. There's still a bit of muscle imbalance and I'm still getting my range back, but I know that the ligament's healed and I've been training my ass off, you know? To get back in the ocean. Because you know what? As soon as this accident happened, I was on the deck and I've been loving my jiu-jitsu, like doing juey as much as I've been surfing, you know? But as soon as that accident happened, I was just longing for surfing. And I just felt devastated about... not about jiu-jitsu, not about even the work implications—they came later—but like, being a provider and having to run two businesses and kind of keep that going was one thing as well. But like the thing that came to my heart as soon as I did the injury was just like, I love surfing and autumn's around the corner. And I was just devo, you know? So I worked my ass off when it was time to train. And I got to the beach the other day and North Ave looked really fun and really little. And I was like, I'm just going to have a little stretch on the beach and see how I feel. And it felt good. And I was like, I'm going to go for a jog and just see how I get to, you know, like jog from one end of the beach and like start kicking my... like doing, getting my knees high, starts opening my hips. And I'm like, it feels pretty good. I'm like, I'm just going to park this idea and see what happens. And then later that day, my dad calls me. He's like, "Hey, do you want me to take the kids for a few hours? We're free." I was like, that's exactly what I want you to do. So I put my knee brace on and got out there on a longboard. And then I surfed for three days consecutive. It was just so fun. Like, fucking hell, it feels so... when you haven't been... on a wave going fast. I was riding my 10-footer, like my big wave board. And I was just trimming, but it just felt... so, like, made me so giddy. It was just the best. So yeah, so I'm just reentering the ocean and I'm loving it, bro. But yeah, before that I was surfing a bunch, but training, jiu-jitsu, parenting, running the business and... but this has just given me... and yeah, I can be complacent when the waves are small or when the waves are shitty and stuff. Like I felt that over the last few years and just kind of hang out for doing strike missions down the coast. And all those kind of things. But since this injury, I'm like, I just... all I want to do is surf, you know? Whether it's one foot or 12 foot, I just want to be out there, you know? So yeah. I've got an even new kind of surfing that's been there for me, you know, my whole life in any instance. And this 10 weeks out, it's just really, like, galvanized how much I... how good the ocean is to me and just the relationship that I want to continue having with it, you know? Just so nice. So I'm frothing, dude. Just back in the water and I'm frothing.
Michael Frampton
Well, that's good to hear, man. And I love your honesty around how surfing was like your first thought. Like... and you're motivated. Like it's honest and it's true, you know? And it's... I mean, that's what motivated you to do, I'm guessing, an hour and a half at least worth of movement every day to keep the blood flow and the healing juices going to the right area. And that 16 weeks that the physio gave you is based upon people doing 10 minutes a day, not two hours a day. So, you know, of course your healing is going to be quicker. Yeah.
Nic Laidlaw
It really does. Without being arrogant, it does feel like that, you know. And I've had just up to like 90 days in a row in the ice bath. Having like, you know, three saunas a week, icy every day, breathing, meditating, moving, you know, and just eating shmiko. And yeah, it's great. It was just a really good thing to get me on the trajectory, like to just realign your trajectory of just like good, clean living, you know?
Michael Frampton
Yeah. I mean, if you're in the NRL, it would have been six weeks before you were back to playing because you would have been on the compression machines, you would have been ice, hot-cold therapy, multiple massages a day, chef. Yeah. You know, you would have healed even faster. Those guys heal ridiculously fast because of their access to modern technology.
Nic Laidlaw
It's true. Yeah. And I really invested in it because health's number one. Without my vessel, it's like I'm not... you know, it's a lot, it's challenging to do what I do for a living and everything. But yeah, that's it. I was getting treatments every week. You know, I was getting either physio or osteo and massage every week just to keep my pelvis aligned, keep my back feeling good. All of those things. So stoked with how it's all gone, man.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, I feel you on that. I had my ACL surgery back in 2002.
Nic Laidlaw
Yes, I remember you talking about.
Michael Frampton
This. Yeah, been through the knee stuff a lot. And I just recently had to go to the specialist about six months ago because of knee pain come back and it's bone on bone now, which is typical, you know, for if you have a... you know, you get about 20 years out of an ACL surgery before your cartilage wears out just because of those extra little movements that happen. It's back foot.
Nic Laidlaw
So intricate, isn't it? Was it your back foot or front foot? Makes it harder. I'm lucky, unfortunately, it was my front foot. So yeah, you would have just done a lot more torsion to that.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Exactly. But you'd be surprised what your body responds to, you know. Even though the cartilage is not there, scar tissue forms. So it's not literally bone on bone unless you do too much. And that scar tissue, if you do more work than the scar tissue has time to heal over, then that's when inflammation really starts to come back. So I find if I just worked on my balance, I worked on my balance and up and just backed off how much surfing I was doing.
Nic Laidlaw
Just didn't... just stabilize, was cranked equilibrium.
Michael Frampton
And it's sort of... it's found its... yeah, it feels like it did years ago. It's fine.
Nic Laidlaw
That's great. And the body's incredible, how it adapts as well. It's like, I don't think—because I chose not to get surgery on the MCL. ACL is different, I believe. But I chose not to get surgery on my injury, and it's like thinking about it and discussing it with my osteo, it's like it wouldn't... it's not going to look good on an MRI ever again, I don't think, but the tissue has an amazing capability to reorganize itself and restructure itself to the imposed demands, right, that we put on it. And if we can do that in an intelligent way, it's like the body is actually a healing machine. It's made to heal. It's not going to be symmetrical, but we're not symmetrical. So it has that way of adapting and healing pretty...
Michael Frampton
Well. Not only is it made to heal, but even something like if you'd torn your ACL completely, that doesn't heal.
Nic Laidlaw
But that...
Michael Frampton
Doesn't, right? Yeah, no, there's no blood supply. So it doesn't. However, there's arguments to saying yes, you know, if you get ACL reconstruction, it's a false ligament in terms that it's there structurally, but it doesn't give any proprioceptive feedback. Right. So you're sacrificing. If you don't get that surgery, then essentially there's less trauma on the knee because you don't have to go through surgery. Yeah. So there's less scar tissue. So there's more other ways of propriocepting the already damaged knee. So a lot of people just choose not to get their ACL reconstructed nowadays. And they have, as long as they keep it strong, then they have great outcomes.
Nic Laidlaw
Every day is leg day. No, I had this... well, this... but one of the specialists I saw—I had to see a few specialists until I got the right answer that I wanted to hear—but one of the specialists I saw was... he's Alex Nichols. But he's got this knee... kind of this knee institute, I think you'd call it, but you go—I went in there and there's like more space for rehab than there is... it's a surgery, but there's more... the gym area and the rehab and the physio space is much bigger than the couple of offices and the surgery room they have. And I'm like, this is a good sign. And he's doing rehabilitative therapy—ACLs without surgery and MCLs, and even PCL, the back one, is a bit of a gray area. But yeah, he's trying to do as little surgery as possible because of what you mentioned—proprioception, healing, and actual trauma to the joint. So yeah, it's good. It's a good way to... I was actually—because that was a very medical kind of place that I went to—but it was really that. You know, I was stoked to see that, you know?
Michael Frampton
Yeah, and he's probably stoked to have you as a client, because some people probably just go in there, "Just operate, mate. I don't want to..."
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah, just do it. He's a frother. He was really good, actually.
Michael Frampton
Nice. So since last time we spoke, I think you've started doing retreats, right?
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah, we've been doing retreats for a while.
Michael Frampton
Tell me about those.
Nic Laidlaw
So they're not surf-specific, but actually I'm going to—we're kind of bringing some more surf-specific retreats. So I've got a little gym where I work, and next door to that, we've got like a little recovery room, a sauna—or we've got two recovery rooms now—sauna, ice baths. And so people come in generally on the hour, you know, so they'll come in. I just had—just before I spoke to you—I had an hour client and we're working with her. She's got a bit of back pain at the moment. And we're working at just bringing up the joint. And in that time, we're speaking about, you know, how's the gut feeling, how's the gut health, what else is happening in the life that might be kind of another stressor on the body. And in that time, we squeezed all that in and then the hour is done and it's like, "All the best for the next week. You got this," you know, which everyone has that power. I love the way that we can serve people in that way. And then the other element is people come in, do some breath work. They have an icy, a sauna, and then they go on. That's another thing. But what I love doing more than anything is like having some time to fully embody all the principles that I live by and that I teach. Not just have them in theory, you know? So instead of having someone for an hour, we've got someone together for three or four nights. And in that time, we're working with the cycles of the day. So from sunrise, we're up and we go have nice early nights. Generally, we go down when the sun's gone down. Depending on what season it is depends on the food that we cook people, depends on the style of movement that I'm going to teach people. And depending on the crew there, there's always this great link of people there that kind of, like, make it a special time as well. So you get to kind of have this element of connection with yourself and with each other. Connection to your food, which is the biggest thing, which I think a lot of people take shortcuts with. And I'm really passionate about good nutrition and just like good eating environment and good produce. You know, like I can't... yeah. Just like getting really good, clean produce into you is just something I couldn't stress enough. And all of these modalities combined together is what I feel we're about—more than just... you know, I'm known for like a movement guy, and I teach movement because it's like in a little studio. That's what we've got time for. And I'll talk about the other principles. But when you've got someone for a couple of days, you can really embody all the principles and say, it's not too much of an ask to go for a three-hour bushwalk and do some Tai Chi out there. Or it's not too much of an ask to say, "Hey guys, I'm going to teach you Tai Chi. Seven out of the 10 people want to go for a surf tomorrow morning, so we're going to go for it. Go down to the beach in the morning, do some breath work, have a stretch and then go surfing. If you're not wanting to go for a surf, you can have a bushwalk or whatever." And now I'm attracting more and more people that like to surf. So they get more and more surf- and salty-orientated, which I love because I love—I wouldn't call myself a surf instructor or anything—but I love taking people surfing, especially from the beginner to intermediate. Like I feel like it's really... a really nice opportunity to give people like the rite of passage of surfing and the culture and like the etiquette and all of those. And just using the ocean in a really like reciprocal way. So that's just the surfing element. But yeah, I love running retreats. So we run two retreats each year and every retreat we do is like, "That was the best one ever," you know? So that's something that my wife and I are working towards building upon and, you know, getting a bit of land down on the South Coast and having like a live-on retreat. Like that's our end goal kind of thing. Wow. So yeah, I feel like it's a really... beautiful way to be able to share what I have to share. Like in face-to-face, in person, you know, a couple of days to get to know each other, get to know their systems and offer what I can do to help, you know. Another thing that you learn with Paul Cech is there's no frigging answers. You're not like healing people. You're actually just asking questions. So I just, my biggest—the biggest thing I could offer—is just be a really good listener and help other people to tune into their own systems because I can lend you my expertise and that's one thing, but like innately, we all know how to... kind of how to look after ourself and how to heal ourself. It's often just about quietening the... all the other stimulus around us, I think.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, you're asking the right questions. Ask everyone if they know what a good diet is and most people... will say they might not have as much knowledge as you or I, but they certainly know how to eat better than they currently are.
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah. And they know what makes them feel... yeah. They know what makes them feel shit-ass. They know what makes them feel tired the next day. You know, we know those behaviors and that's okay to do them. But at least we can't kind of bullshit ourselves. You know, if you ask the right questions and poke into the blind spots sometimes, it can be really...
Michael Frampton
Illuminating. Sometimes I feel people are on the fence. They're like, "Yeah, I really want to train and eat better and have a go at this health lifestyle thing." But then it comes to Friday night and their friends are saying, "Come on, stuff that, let's go out for a drink." And they do that. But if they have the opportunity to get together with other like-minded individuals for four days...
Nic Laidlaw
Exactly, dude.
Michael Frampton
Then they can dive into it and you build... I'm sure there's all sorts of WhatsApp chat groups and friends are made.
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah, exactly. And then it's like it makes it totally permissible to go and have a blowout and really enjoy that blowout. And then get back on the program, you know, because it's like, you just need to make some sub—I wouldn't even call it a suboptimal choice. I just call it, if you do, if it comes from the right place, going out and having it, having a blowout and eating rubbish and drinking too much, whatever it is that you decide to do, I'm all for that if that's for you. But if you love yourself through it, you know, like really enjoy it. Like Maddie, my wife, and I on the weekend—this is pretty like, we're pretty soft in the scheme of things—but it's like Maddie's been like really looking after her health and diet and she's like no sugar lately at all and it's been... she's been feeling great for it. But Easter comes around and she's like, will I, won't I? But it's like, if you're going to do it, fully and love yourself for it. You know, like love every moment of it. And then you'll get the feedback from your body that it's time to get off that train. But what I suggest is not to half in it and feel guilty about it. Just do it and love yourself through it. And then it naturally comes to an end instead of this like, I shouldn't be doing this. And then it just creates a cycle. It can create a cycle. We can tell ourselves some crazy stories.
Michael Frampton
Man, I love chocolate.
Nic Laidlaw
Dude, I love chocolate. That's like... I love coffee, but like, I think if I had—they're the two biggest things, you know—but if it's chocolate or if I had to choose one, I'm going to be chocolate. It's so good.
Michael Frampton
Same. Yeah.
Nic Laidlaw
It's so good. Yeah, I'll have a long black most days.
Michael Frampton
So are you a regular customer? Coffee drinker?
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah. I'm pretty—I am pretty sensitive to coffee. And since we had the boys, you know, then you go—now we're sleeping great, but like, it did... it's taken us a while, you know, to get them all on the program to freaking sleeping all night. And I think the more tired I am, the more I need to be wary of coffee, if that makes sense. And the more you want it. But I'm quite a sensitive person, so it can make me freaking pretty antsy if I have it and I don't have the reserves to be able to metabolize it. Yeah. So I do drink coffee. Like there's often—like often I'll have a day or two off a week, just depending on how I'm feeling. If I'm feeling tired and wired... and often it's funny, hey, it's often on a Monday, because I just—Thursday I pretty much switch off. I just get my training done on Thursday, clients, but then I don't really think about work too much until the Monday. And it seems to be like you get to—because we're so busy with the kids—then you get to Monday and you're like, holy shit, like it's compounded. I've got a lot to do this week. And often that'll be the day that I'm like, I don't need a coffee. Because that's going to frazzle me. You know, it's about just, you know... So Monday is often a day I'll have off from coffee. Because it just makes me a bit antsy.
Michael Frampton
Obviously, Paul Cech's been a big influence. Who else has been influencing you a lot recently? Are you doing any more study?
Nic Laidlaw
Not actively studying at the moment. I did my stint—big stint—with Paul Cech, you know. That's the foundation of my... you know, of a lot of the things that I share. And then we studied with Ido Portal—he's a movement guy—Fighting Monkey. They're like athletic development. They do performing arts. They're freaking amazing. And they teach you a lot about improvisation and learning the elastic structure of your body. And they have a really deep philosophy behind it, which I love. So that in the movement world, that's kind of like the base. And then—and it's like—it's funny, the first person that came to mind when you said that was... when you asked me who's inspiring right now, it's like Tom Carroll. I'm lucky enough to call him a good mate of mine. We live in the same community. He's lived through amazing highs. He's lived through incredible adversity. And he's never too busy to say g'day to a crossing friend but actually ask them how they are. He's never too busy to talk to a lady who's just gotten into surfing—and I've witnessed all of these things—who's just gotten into surfing and is just starstruck by him. And he's like... he's a brother that like, when I did my knees, I had so many injuries, like he called me and we just had a chat and I was just friggin had a big old cry to him. I was just like, "Dude, like, you know, look, I got to work and I can't surf and I can't even use my body to provide for my family," and he just like is such a sensitive soul that he was just so there for me. He doesn't owe me anything. There's nothing to gain from me. He's like such a champion, not only in his surfing, but in his... like, I love the way that he embodies life. And he just... he froths that hard, dude. I know you've met him as well, but he froths harder than most. And he's like—I think he might be 60—but he's getting towards that age. He surfs so much and foils surfing stuff like crazy. Training hard, like... and he's just got such a big open heart, you know, and that actually supersedes everything else—like all of everything else. You know, he's got such a big open heart. And such a froth for life. And so, yeah, he really inspires me. And I didn't even think of that before you asked me, but as soon as you asked me, he's the first face that popped into my mind, yeah. He's a legend.
Michael Frampton
That's awesome. I mean, I look up to Tom a lot as well, and he's—Tom's amazing. It's so important in life to have these people who we look up to. Whether it's an elder who you consider a friend or a specific mentor or...
Nic Laidlaw
Whatever. It's so important, isn't it? We shouldn't do it alone either.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, we can't do it alone. And...
Nic Laidlaw
I think I've been fortunate that I've always seeked out elder males, you know. I've got a really good dad—like a great dad—and he's never been too big to point me in the right direction or even just to accept all these characters that I fall into flow with in my life. You know, because Dad had a... Dad, Mum and Dad grew up out west, away from the ocean, in a very different upbringing than me. And they've given this privilege to us to live like on, you know, like, you know, a stone's throw away from the ocean. And we all fell in love with the ocean together. And there's all these eccentric characters that come with the surf culture. And Mum and Dad are just like, yeah, right. Like, you know, they see people's good hearts and good intentions. They're like, cool. Like some of my mates, like—and over the years—and some people that I've brought home as a kid, and you know, like I've had like lots of mentors. Really lucky. From the surf community and from NASA, like our local boardriders. And some of these people that Mum and Dad have come across, they're just like really trusting and accepting. But I've had some really colorful, like... outside-the-box kind of thinkers from a really early age. So I'm so frothed on that. It's so lucky.
Michael Frampton
Man, you live in a special part of the world for...
Nic Laidlaw
Sure. Yeah, it really is, dude. Yeah, there's a lot of special people in a... it's wherever you seek it, I reckon. And there is that thing that brings you into flow with other people that are... and maybe if they're not even like-minded, they've got something to offer you.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, we don't have to name the place, but those who know how special the surf is there—but just the... just it's just such an idyllic place to live and it attracts—it is—so many special people.
Nic Laidlaw
No, yeah. I think like, yeah, I live on the Northern Beaches in Sydney, and it's just like, yeah, it's a beautiful place. And I've got, you know, I live at Avalon, and I'm super proud of like our community. And it's evolving like—and it's changing—like everywhere changes, you know, but that's just part of life. But yeah, at its core, it's still a very special place that breeds a lot of characters. Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Yeah.
Nic Laidlaw
Man. You got to experience that.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, no, I miss it like crazy, man. I've lived in Pointe du Malibu, I've lived in London, I've lived in New York. And if I had to... if I had to go back to any one of the spots I've lived around the world, it would be there.
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah, you reckon?
Michael Frampton
Yeah, that's cool. For sure. Without even second-guessing myself.
Nic Laidlaw
And are you back in NZ now?
Michael Frampton
Yeah, back in NZ, back in Hawke's Bay.
Nic Laidlaw
Nice. Cool.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, we've got family here and family and friends are here. So good place to raise the...
Nic Laidlaw
Sure, dude.
Michael Frampton
Kids. That's where you want to be for... there's no higher task.
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah, no, that's the most important thing is raising the boys.
Michael Frampton
There's no greater honor, really.
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah. For sure. You've got mentors above you and then mentees below us.
Michael Frampton
Totally. That's just the purpose. I used to have different lofty goals of what I want to achieve and all that stuff. You become a parent. That's your living legacy. Nothing more important.
Nic Laidlaw
But you can't lose sight of your own... stuff either.
Michael Frampton
Fuck no. No, like I'm even more inspired to get barreled. I'm even more inspired to kick ass—like in relative terms to what it means for me—because it's like, I want to be their hero, you know? I think we've all seen it, you know, the parents that live through their kids, that sacrifice. And there's no doubt about this—certainly sacrifices being a parent. But like, that's what comes with the choice of doing it. Like, yeah, it's lit like a fire in my belly even more so, like to—just like—to be... I want to use like "authentically myself," but like it's that thing of just being your unbridled self. Because I would love them to feel comfortable in their skin, just to express themselves and be themselves, you know? And that's something I didn't grow up having—that innate confidence—but it's developed as I've gotten... as I've grown up. And I just think if I can do one thing—like you said, like we said at the very start—it's so important to live your dream because that's what they see. If they see someone that, you know, sees work as a slog and sees life as something to get through, then that's a pretty... that's a bit of a bummer of a picture for your parents to—for your kids to see, you know? If they see you coming home from work, you know, maybe tired some days, but overall, if they see you frothing more than not, like, I think that's good, you know. And how do we get those happy chemicals in our body? By doing the things we love. And for me, it's like moving my body, being in nature, and surfing my butt off, you know? And, you know, having like really good relationships in my life as well, like from everything.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, it comes back to how we started, which is lead by example.
Nic Laidlaw
Do. Don't talk about doing. Just do it. Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Exactly.
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah, 100%.
Michael Frampton
And it spreads out. Not just your kids—obviously, they live with you, they see more of you than anyone else—but obviously, it spreads out. Everywhere. Your community, obviously.
Nic Laidlaw
100%. And like I said, having that opportunity where there was just always... I've just been lucky where I've always come across really great mentors. That's something I don't take lightly in my role in the community as well. I really love—and it just so happens—I've got, you know, so many ladies and young ladies that come, and every age of females and males that come through the studio. But like, young men seem to really be drawn to the studio. And that's something that I love. You know, I love like, you know, getting the groms in here. You know, give them a lot of love and a lot of confidence, but give them the boundaries that they need because they're cheeky little bastards. And, you know, just working, just watching them become young men and staying... if you can just, again, by living it, impart solid values for them. Because I think the world needs... and I can only speak from a man, but the world needs good people in general. But like, you know, our masculinity is in crisis in a lot of ways in the world. And I think there's one thing, you know, that I could offer—I feel like I'm a fairly well-balanced male. So yeah, you know, I love having young fellas come in here and, you know, just sharing with them what I can. It's important.
Michael Frampton
It's super important. I'm glad you mentioned it because there is a crisis of masculinity, for want of a better word. I mean, have you come across Richard Reeves’ work, for example, maybe?
Nic Laidlaw
Okay, no, I...
Michael Frampton
Haven’t. I forget what his book's called now, but I’ll share it with you. It's really interesting work. People mislabel the term masculinity.
Nic Laidlaw
Yes, so it has a negative connotation, when really...
Michael Frampton
Really, it’s not. Yeah.
Nic Laidlaw
Being proud of one's masculinity and sitting strong in one's masculinity is so important for the balance of culture and society, just like I think women need to be so much more celebrated for their power—not their yang strength, strapping a pair of balls on—but like, women have strength, like, and power that is so innately theirs that it’s like, men shouldn’t even try to emulate that. And it's such a powerful force. Just like, on the other hand, man, we have like an innate strength and power that is really good for our society and really good for our young men to be able to grow from. And I think it's to celebrate, you know, the inner warrior, to celebrate our strength. And by physically challenging ourself—whether that's going surfing big waves, and I know that was my initiation into manhood; it’s one of them anyway, you know—having kids, another one. But you know, going and testing your limits. And that's all part of being a young man. And everyone's welcome. It's not exclusive. But I think there is a level of like—I feel like there's so many guys that are turning into, like, by the age of a man, that haven't really been taught how to like, strap a pair on, and taught how to lead, or to hold it down for their family, or to fucking just show up and be a man of your word. Like, I don't think that's as valued in our society as it could be. And I think it's quite confusing for young men.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, it sure is. How was big wave surfing an initiation?
Nic Laidlaw
I don't subscribe to any religion or ideology personally. But I think nature is one of those things that's pretty god-like, in a way that, like, the relationship that I formed with the ocean—it’s never failed to make me feel comfortable. So small in the scheme of things that it feels like it really puts you in your place. So that's like, I'll speak of that with my relationship to the ocean and to nature in general. It's like, it's so powerful that it's hard to actually measure how powerful it is. But you don't know until you're in an ocean that's big enough to squish you if it wanted to. And so I think from a pretty early age—I think I was like 13, 14, maybe just starting high school—where I started kind of getting that... when the waves are big in relative terms—and I'll only speak in relative terms—but when the waves are big and you have to kind of like really muster up some courage to get out there, or you have to really think about how you're going to get out there... like there's so much problem solving involved to remain fairly unscathed. Like whether it's a rock off, or whether it's a strategic paddle out, whether you go around the next headland and paddle out that way. And then there's the action of like—so that's the first thing—is like getting off the beach with a lot of uncertainty in your heart. And it's pretty awesome. It's equally awesome doing it with a couple of buddies, because like, yes, we're in this together—or even doing it by yourself, it's even like another lesson, embodied lesson there as well. But, you know, taking a few drops, getting some floggings, and then being out so far that you're looking at the horizon, looking at the shore—which is quite a way away—and then you come back to sand and come back to land and you're just like, "My God, I'm so grateful to be alive and to be in good health." I still feel like that when I have a big surf out at the Bombie or whatever. It's just like, you touch the sand and you're like, "Thanks, God." You know, like, that is just amazing. So how is that initiation? I think for anything to be an initiation, you need to like stretch yourself beyond what you think you're capable of, right? You need to go and step into the unknown. There's the idea of having like a dark—the dark night of the soul—which is like, unknown, terrified. You have opportunity for all of the negative self-talk to come in. Ideally, you prove to yourself that you're able and that you're capable to slip in—not to overcome a fear or not to beat fear or conquer anything—but actually to work with an energy that's much bigger than yourself, I think teaches you a lot. That's taught me a lot anyway. And then to return to land—whether it's you got a few scratches and bruises, you got a snapped board, you've had to do a huge swim across through a rip—or you come in one piece. And I think that's like such a... it's like a... yeah, it's the tale of like the hero’s journey encapsulated in a couple of hours perhaps. So I think there's a lot to be said about it. And we don't have—it’s coming back more and more with formalized, you know, men's work that people are doing out there, which I love—but when you're doing it with nature, it's such a great thing. And I think that's very much... you can feel. My biggest one was going to Hawaii when I was 17. I felt like I just came back a different person. Because it was in that six weeks, there were just so many times where I pushed myself beyond where I thought I'd go. I accepted help from these amazing people that were in my corner. I had to figure shit out by myself a lot, whether it's, you know, in so many different ways. So, yeah, I do think it’s like, that does offer a really good, solid, honest initiation for a young person.
Michael Frampton
100% agree. I love that. You nailed it.
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah, you go through it enough times and you can start to put some words to the experience.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, a big wave surf is almost—it’s a good metaphor for any challenge that you face in life.
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah. Beyond surfing for sure.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. And for surfers, it's... you know, big wave surfing might be the thing. You have this desire, right? It all starts with that. And then you self, "Man, am I ready? It's triple overhead. Am I ready for this?" And if you've done your training and you've got the right board, it's not going to get rid of self-doubt. But it's going to give you a reason and some evidence to be confident. And then you can go out and test your training and your... and all those other hours.
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah. And you have to face all of that self-doubt. Because I think all the fear comes from like a seed that's within ourself, you know. A fear of—we see a huge wave and that reflects—that's fucking scary—but that reflects something in us back to us, that gives you the mirror of like, can I? Should I? You know? And you have to go through so many mental challenges, work with so many mental obstacles, challenges to even get yourself in the arena. It's a very rich experience.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, it's the same as signing a lease to a building to run a business from.
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah, totally. I did that when I was 21. That was pretty scary.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, but would you have done that if you hadn't been to Hawaii?
Nic Laidlaw
I wonder, bro. I wonder. I think that was a big game changer—going to Hawaii—because I kind of came back to school knowing something that a lot of people didn’t know. Like knowing something about myself that very few people knew about me. And it kind of didn’t matter. I didn’t really—it wasn’t one of those days where social media—like you need to get shots to prove what you’ve just done. It’s like I came back with this idea, confidence of being like, I’ve seen some shit over the last, you know, over the last while. And it actually gave me a lot more—you know, how I was speaking about how I wasn’t really born or I didn’t really grow up with this innate confidence just to be myself—like I’ve never felt so, you know, so free. Adulthood is so much easier than adolescence for me. Like, because I just give myself permission just to be me. And I just—you know, it’s not that I don’t care—but like in the sense of, it’s not really any of my business what other people think of me. Like, so I’m good, you know. And that was the beginning of it—coming back from Hawaii and being like, cool. I know that I feel really—like there was a confidence in me. And that just helped me pursue—like that nailed one thing. I was still doing the Pro Juniors as a competitive surfer then, but I was 17 at that age where it’s like, I don’t know if I’m that—if I’m good enough to be like on tour. And that was like an honest reflection, you know. That wasn’t—it wasn’t any hard luck story with me. It was just that thing of like I’ve competed for a long time and I don’t know if I’m going to crack it, you know. But what I did know for sure is that I wanted to surf every day. And my parents have both run their own business together—they’re hairdressers—and they’ve had a salon for 30-odd years, even maybe longer than 30 years. They’re doing just such a humble, great business and service to the community, but they’ve always done it themselves and they haven’t worked for anyone. And so I think when I was like, I still—I need to be able to surf every day. Like, that’s non-negotiable. And I was like, I like working with people, and I’m really into my health and yoga and stuff. So yeah. So then I decided to do the yoga and personal training. And then straight away it’s like, what are you going to do? You’re going to work at like Fitness First, or are you going to train people in a park? And I was just like—both of those are fine. But for me, I was like, nah, I want to have my own. I don’t like any gym. I’d never even been to a gym until I was a personal trainer. Because I just didn’t—I was a skinny kid—I wasn’t interested. I wasn’t interested in it unless it was going to help me surf better. I wasn’t interested. And then found all the Cech philosophy, and I’m like, this could help me surf better. And it could help a lot of other people surf better too. But yeah, I got a little studio and I didn’t think twice about it. Anything that I got with payment—any cash that I got that was a $20 note or above—I banked it. I took out a $40,000 loan, got a car, got a studio space and did it up, decked it out. And then I just paid—worked my absolute ass off to pay that loan back within the five years, which was the agreement. And I did. And I didn’t think much about it. Like, I was just like, it has to work, you know? I was 21 when I did it. So you don’t have that much responsibility at 21, you know. But I didn’t really think—I was just like, let’s just do it.
Michael Frampton
I love that. And the non-negotiable—that’s such a good term.
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah. You gotta surf every day. Fuck. What else are we—like, we’ve got to be able to surf every day, you know. If that’s what you want. You should be—we should be able to do—and you live, I’ve noticed from day one I met you when you were in Avalon—I got, that’s just like, yeah, of course. Of course, that’s what you should be able to do every day. There’s no "I have to." Speaking of being a man, there’s no "I have to." You do everything. You find that—you let’s find that. And it might sound rich coming from me, but it’s like, I’m not materially super wealthy or anything. I just like, carved out a good lifestyle so I can do what we want and our family can eat good food.
Michael Frampton
Well, that’s the true meaning of wealth, isn’t it?
Nic Laidlaw
Like that’s what I mean, you know. Yeah, 100%. It’s like, yeah, that’s our private health care—you know, exercise and organic food.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Beautiful. I love that. That’s very educational and inspirational. Dude, thank you so much. We have to get you back on another time, but thanks for your time today. It’s awesome.
Nic Laidlaw
Absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me on, bro. Love your work, man. So yeah, really appreciate it.
Michael Frampton
Sweet. And where can people find you online?
Nic Laidlaw
Instagram is just Balanced Studio. So B-A-L-A-N-C-E-D-S-T-U-D-I-O, one word. Yeah. I put up stuff semi-regularly there. Or just like, yeah, I’ve got a YouTube channel, Nic Laidlaw. So N-I-C Laidlaw. And putting—I’ve actually just re-launched, like, kind of reignited it to get more online, you know. So I’ve just been chipping away at that more recently. So I’ve got some new content coming out there and some surf-specific stuff as well, you know—good movement, mobility, strength for surfing and all those kind of things. So yeah, that’d be a good start—YouTube or Insta. And that leads to the website, my services and all that kind of stuff.
Michael Frampton
Perfect. I’ll have links to all that stuff in the show notes. And until next time, thanks. Thank you so much for tuning in.
Nic Laidlaw
Yeah, 100%. Thanks, Mike.
Michael Frampton
I noticed that most people that listen to this podcast haven’t yet subscribed, so if you could do that, it would be a huge help—it’ll help grow the show. And a review and a rating is a massive help to help the show along. And of course, if you enjoyed this episode or any other episode of the Surf Mastery Podcast, share it with a friend. You can follow Nic at Balanced Studio on Instagram, and of course, links to everything Nic in the show notes. My six-week coaching program starts next week. More information atsurfmastery.com. Upcoming episodes include... Guy Kawasaki, Matt Parker. And until next time, get out there and go surfing.
96 How Surfing Connects Us To Our True Selves - With Nic Laidlaw
For the passionate surfer—whether you're a weekend warrior, a surf dad, or an older surfer—this podcast is all about better surfing and deeper stoke. With expert surf coaching, surf training, and surfing tips, we’ll help you catch more waves, refine your paddling technique, and perfect your pop up on a surfboard. From surf workouts to handling wipeouts, chasing bigger waves, and mastering surf technique, we’re here to make sure you not only improve but truly enjoy surfing more—so you can get more out of every session and become a wiser surfer. Go from Beginner or intermediate Surfer to advanced.