052: CRIS MILLS - Surf Strength Coach
SHOW NOTES
Still stretching your hamstrings and doing crunches to improve your surfing? That’s cute—but also outdated.
In this no-holds-barred conversation, surf strength coach Cris Mills (of Surf Strength Coach and the Surf Athlete App) joins host Michael Frampton to talk DNS, chronic pain, back injuries, morning routines, surfing culture, homelessness, and the surprising connection between gut health and mental resilience.
Hear Cris’s raw story of injury, burnout, and the unconventional path to building a global surf training brand
Learn how DNS and breath training helped him (and thousands of surfers) escape chronic pain
Get straight talk on what actually improves performance and longevity for surfers beyond their 30s
Press play and learn how to bulletproof your body, train smarter—not harder—and live a surf-optimized life without breaking yourself.
Cris and i talk surfing, health and fitness, and loads of other non-surf topics. This episode is basically a casual unedited yarn.
Cris’ website: https://surfstrengthcoach.com/
Cris’ app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/surfathlete/id1473672898
DNS:
https://www.rehabps.com/REHABILITATION/Home.html
https://travelersurfclub.com/products/shortboard
Key Points
Michael announced a surfing shortboard workshop in Malibu on January 25th and 26th, focusing on surfboard design, wave reading, and surfing techniques.
Chris discussed his health issues, attributing them to childhood nutrition, lifestyle, and surf trips, leading to heavy treatments and ongoing health management.
Chris shared his journey from initially planning to study law to transitioning into fitness training, particularly focusing on surf fitness.
Michael and Chris discussed the benefits of DNS (Dynamic Neuromuscular Stabilization) for pain relief and improving physical self-awareness, with Michael sharing his personal experience with DNS.
The conversation touched on the challenges of chronic pain, the importance of financial capacity for health treatments, and the role of nutrition and lifestyle in managing pain.
Chris mentioned his experience with gut health protocols and their impact on his brain chemistry, emphasizing the importance of a holistic approach to health.
The discussion highlighted the severe homelessness problem in America, particularly in cities like Los Angeles, and the need for systemic changes to address it.
Chris described his relationship with the ocean and surfing as integral to his life, despite not being part of the traditional surf industry.
Michael and Chris discussed the importance of gaze stabilization and vestibular training for brain health, especially after traumatic brain injuries.
Chris introduced his app, Surf Athlete, aimed at helping individuals improve their surfing through strength and conditioning programs.
Outline
Chris Mills' Background and Career
Chris Mills is the creator of surfstrengthcoach.com and recently released an app called Surf Athlete.
He has a background in criminal justice but transitioned to personal training and surf-specific fitness after college.
Mills initially got certified as a personal trainer through NASM, then dove deeper into anatomy, physiology, and various training methodologies.
He studied Paul Chek's work extensively, which forms the foundation of how he views the body, health, and training.
Mills also got certified through NSCA as a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist.
He studied Functional Movement Systems (FMS) and obtained massage therapy licensure.
Recently, he took a Functional Range Release certification course.
Mills prefers working one-on-one with clients but has expanded into online coaching and leading international surf training trips.
Health Issues and Recovery
Mills experienced significant health problems starting in their late 20s, which culminated in heavy treatments about three years ago for Lyme disease, co-infections, metal toxicity, and gut issues.
They attribute the root causes to poor childhood nutrition, frequent illnesses, undiagnosed food intolerances, heavy partying in their 20s, and infections picked up during surf trips.
Mills emphasizes how increasing self-awareness around diet and lifestyle choices has been key to their recovery and maintaining health.
They note the importance of understanding one's individual needs and sensitivities.
Surfing Background and Philosophy
Mills grew up with intermittent exposure to surfing, starting more seriously after college.
Their surf experience was characterized by long periods of intense surfing followed by long breaks.
This pattern inspired their interest in training to maintain surf fitness during off periods.
Mills views their relationship with surfing and the ocean as integral to their life, both energetically and professionally.
They aim to help others improve their interaction with the ocean through their work.
While passionate about surfing, Mills tries to maintain a balanced approach, recognizing how an obsession with surfing can negatively impact other areas of life.
Training Methodologies and Injury Prevention
Mills discusses various training approaches they have studied and incorporated, including Dynamic Neuromuscular Stabilization (DNS), Foundation Training, and vision/vestibular training.
They emphasize the importance of proper movement patterns, core activation, and addressing fundamental issues like gaze stabilization, especially for those who have experienced head injuries.
Mills recommends practices like brushing teeth while standing on one foot with eyes closed to improve balance and proprioception.
They stress the value of becoming more physically self-aware to prevent and recover from injuries.
Surf Trips and Coaching
Mills now runs international surf coaching trips, including upcoming sessions at Macaronis, Nicaragua, and potentially El Salvador and Telos.
These trips often fill up 12 months in advance.
They enjoy the opportunity to work with surfers in person and help them progress, regardless of age.
Mills has observed that with proper technique refinement and understanding of one's physical needs, surfers can continue improving well into their later years.
App Development and Online Presence
Mills recently launched the Surf Athlete app, which offers free workouts and paid programs for surf-specific training.
Their typical clients are 35-55 year old professionals looking to maintain their surfing abilities or recover from injuries.
Mills maintains an online presence through their website surfstrengthcoach.com and corresponding social media accounts.
Thoughts on Big Wave Surfing
While not a big wave surfer themselves, Mills expresses fascination with the mindset of big wave chargers.
They speculate on the drivers behind this pursuit, such as the adrenaline rush, entering deep flow states, and pushing personal limits.
Mills acknowledges the addictive nature of the experience but also the inherent dangers involved.
Bali and Surfing Locations
Mills currently resides in Bali, which serves as a base for their work and surfing.
They discuss the world-class waves available there, particularly mentioning Uluwatu.
However, they also express concern about the rapid development occurring on the island, especially along the Bukit Peninsula, and its potential impact on water resources and the overall environment.
Meditation and Mental Health
The conversation touches on the importance of meditation and mental health practices for overall wellbeing and performance.
Mills mentions using guided meditations by Dr. Joe Dispenza.
Michael recommends the Waking Up app by Sam Harris and discusses their own use of Kirtan Kriya meditation.
They agree on the value of even short meditation sessions for improving focus and mental state.
Transcription
Michael Frampton
Welcome back surfers 2020 Just recently returned from a trip to Australia and New Zealand Good to be back in California where winter pretty much doesn't exist it is 20 degrees Celsius no clouds no wind pretty much every day. I've been back The weather is nicer Here in the middle of California winter than it was in the New Zealand summer It's a little warmer over there, but It's always seems to be windy in New Zealand Anyway while I was in Australia. I did a bunch of interviews Did another interview with Tom Carroll? Previous guest and legend G Cormac another previous guest Samber man and Matt Granger a few others in there as well so plenty of episodes to come in the near future Not this weekend, but the following weekend I am hosting a surfing shortboard workshop here in Malibu at the traveler surf club Which is just opposite first point So that's Saturday and Sunday January the 25th and 26th from 9 till 11 a .m. We'll be talking about surfboard design wave reading surfing technique training for surfing lots more Most of this presentation is based off of Clayton Neanarba presentation so big thanks to Clayton for letting me use his material Whilst it is geared towards the short boarder Completely relevant for all fishes and mid -length type boards and surfers If you're a long boarder you're still going to get a lot out of this as well, so that's January the 25th and 26th Space is limited so please advance tickets and more details and tickets are available at Travelersurfclub .com and there is a direct link to that in the bio of my Instagram in the show notes of the app that you're listening to this on as well and on to today's episode My guest for this episode is Chris Mills a returning guest he first featured on the show back in 2016 episode 11 in the back catalog Chris is the creator of surfstrengthcoach .com And has just recently released an app called the surf his app is surf athlete go and check that out and Today, we're just riffing about health and wellness surfing Netflix homelessness loads of stuff pretty informal interview just basically just us chatting and Your parents this one's probably not fit for the groms And if you want to find out more about Chris surfstrengthcoach .com Instagram is the same Links to all that in the show notes and on the Instagram post for this the song that is Easing us into this interview is I am California by John Craig. What do you have for breakfast?
Cris Mills
Bacon with sauteed pears spinach eggs coffee with gelatin powder That was it What do you have for breakfast?
Michael Frampton
I? What did I have for breakfast? Black coffee and waves I'd like to start the day just a little bit of black coffee and Surfing do Yeah, I try and fast I Try not to eat anything before sort of 9 10 o 'clock And I have my I'll have an early dinner at around 6 30 So there's a decent fast in there and I don't always drink coffee if I get a good sleep.
Cris Mills
That's a pretty good breakfast, man Yeah, you do the whole fasting gig?
Michael Frampton
I won't drink coffee So yeah, but I do love coffee.
Cris Mills
Like I just said when I poured that cup I love the uppers man No coffee is epic like Yeah coffee. It's good. There was a point in time where I couldn't drink it I was going through some health stuff and I'd find like crazy blood sugar regulation dysregulation from it and had to back it off but I Thoroughly enjoy it the whole process behind it right like you grind it Like there's a whole ritual behind the coffee thing that I enjoy I think more so than maybe even the coffee Like smoking joints, right?
So when I was younger used to smoke a lot of joints blunts in college and everything but There's I think still a ritualistic process of like I could see why I think a lot of people cigarettes It's the ritual behind it the process rolling the cigarette Contemplation it's a pause in life generally. So like even still man like so I've been in California and I was like I hit my sister up. I'm like Nicole See if you can get some pot and she's like Chris we can just go to the shop and I was like, yeah It's that whole thing so even then like just the process of like rolling a spliff it's Similar to coffee. I think the whole Contemplative ritualistic aspect behind it and you know, Yeah, so there's still like I'm actually a bit foggy today Brain foggy ish so long story and I actually really haven't spoken much about it publicly before but it culminated in a lot of heavy treatments some of which were lime and lime co -infections a bunch of metal chelation therapies a Bunch of gut stuff and that probably I started feeling weird when I was about 26 or 27 I'm 37 now and the heavy treatments were probably about three years ago now and they're still lingering stuff But it's way better than it was.
Michael Frampton
So you said you were going through some health issues.
So what brought it on? Do you know?
Cris Mills
When I look back at life now, it was kind of a stereotypical Childhood development nutrition lifestyle thing that would lead to Throw in some a bunch of surf trips and got infections and it was partying through 20s Into upper 20s. It was kind of a good culmination to wreak havoc on a system So, you know like growing up Lots of flus when I was young lots of Stripe when I was young Standard American diet when I was young Gluten intolerance and dairy intolerance, but not being aware of it till I was like early 20s Lots of booze and partying from like 20 to 26 27 Gut infections starting when I was young like my grandfather lived in Guatemala So I remember getting really sick down there when I was young and then you know I mean like you've done Central America Asia you pick up stuff that our immune systems and guts just aren't used to yeah slowly Break down the system.
Michael Frampton
Do you think part of it is just as your self -awareness increases? And you start cutting out some of the processed foods and having a better lifestyle Then you just start becoming more aware of when you fall off the wagon how bad it is hundred.
Cris Mills
Percent Hundred percent man. So a like you said the physical awareness Generally, I don't know if When dealing with clients you probably see this as well Some people just aren't necessarily as physically self -reflective like I'm foggy today. Let me just pound coffee until I'm not foggy And not necessarily correlating it with what they ate at dinner or what they did before or did the day before so I think You know for those of us in the health realm That have probably had issues. Maybe we're a bit more Sensitive to those fluctuations and aware of them. That's the probably part of it.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, I tend to agree with that strongly because sometimes I fall off the wagon for a little while usually over Christmas and you kind of adapt to it, yeah, you're like this isn't so bad Yeah I can eat bread for breakfast and you know drink three glasses of wine every night with family and friends and I can function and then Christmas is over and stuff and you start getting back on your clean diet and you go. Wow after a week or two back on it. You're like shit. It's like I can be way better.
Cris Mills
Yeah, so My sister Not detrimentally she'll have a drink like last night she had a dirty martini while we were watching Watchmen actually if we were just discussing that and and So well while I've been here I've only had maybe two drinks since I've been in California and Felt like utter shit the next day and it's just you know a Because of health stuff.
Michael Frampton
I.
Cris Mills
Maybe I've got a detox system. That's not necessarily ramped up to 100 % full effect, but Me not drinking most of the time When you do drink you feel it.
Like you said the body acclimatizes to it Maybe it ramps up certain enzyme production within the liver fit.
Michael Frampton
For sure. You can get drink fit drink Yeah I do can I get you to lift this up a little just so it's a little bit higher right into like it just kind of like you want to like just caressing.
Cris Mills
That's right So yeah, then drink curls. For the holidays Get.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Yeah, just yeah Like a big mouth, let's get nice and close Maury Get nice and close to.
Cris Mills
Her I wish I could remember quotes from that show because they're so grotesquely brilliant like You must have a couple off the top of your it?
Michael Frampton
Head. I don't watch it with enough awareness to Who is.
Cris Mills
The shame wizard when the shame wizard? Showing up like It's such a filthy show if you guys out there if we're recording people need to watch big mouth.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, it is great Brilliant. Yeah, it is brilliant. It's so it's like Maury and the shame wizard everyone has those personas in them those little people on their shoulder Yeah.
Cris Mills
That shows so good because everything You can relate to everything in that show. Maybe not to the extreme that they take it to but Most of it hits on something maybe not everything but like there's little aspects that everybody through their like Adolescence can at least and it's like I said earlier man what those guys are getting away with on that Netflix cartoon It's brilliant.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, it is like It's well worth watching yeah.
Cris Mills
Little adolescent. I'm not gonna say it. Never mind go on Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Did you grow up with surfing?
Cris Mills
Off and on born in Cocoa Beach Lots of ocean time like growing up always in and out of the water varying aspects and then through high school Started surfing a bit here and there was always really drawn to it did lots and lots of skating lots of skateboarding And then would surf every opportunity but high school college. I was more like the st Petersburg kind of Tampa area and Then after college just started ramping up all the surfing is free even through college like Central America trips and so forth and then after college just it's funny. I was talking Fiona my partner She we were discussing like how often we were surfing or whatnot and like so I've been here in California now a month roughly and Haven't surfed at all And I'm not too phased by it But like most of my surf life except for the last couple years has always been these big kind of droughts So like after college I'd go surf for six months and live in a tent in Central America or something and then not surf for Like five months while I was bartending back in Florida just making cash and kind of back and forth So these big injections of surf? And then it wasn't till the last couple years roughly now living in like Indonesia and Australia where it's surfing as much as possible.
Michael Frampton
So that this the surfing and then not surfing is that what kind of inspired? What do I do in between when I'm not surfing to keep strong and fit kind of thing pretty.
Cris Mills
Much yeah, because there would like you said these big droughts and You're know what I'm talking about like the physical demands of surfing Physiologically energetically. It's very different from anything you come across. And so yeah just starting to consider What I and others could do Just to kind of ramp up that physical capacity.
Michael Frampton
It is that what Initiated your dive into Anatomy and physiology was your intro was it or what? So what you study after high school?
Cris Mills
I went to college to Go to law school was the intention and so I have a criminal justice Degree with like a focus like pre -law kind of thing and was getting ready to go to law school I was gonna move to California for law school and scratch that after some like world travel and realizing I want nothing of that so in an amongst surf trips and bartending I Started like I was like, well, I can't I don't want to keep doing this bartending gig. I would have been about 24 25 and Did a personal training certification because I'd always been Training playing soccer like always sport oriented in the gym like all through college hanging out with these like tattooed meathead dudes and we just go lift and try to be as big as possible and so always training Started that first personal training cert through nasm and then Once you know how it is man, like once you dive down the rabbit hole, it's this never -ending fucked up realm of intricacy and more of this and I don't get this and so then it just started evolving and then as The training progressed and started seeing clients and you know I just didn't want to be doing general weight loss and started just pushing more towards athletic development and then water sports oriented stuff And then that started steamrolling more and more towards the predominance of what is now this whole surf fitness thing. So yeah, that's kind of a long story kind of short kind of fell into it and just mashed a I like fitness I much prefer working with surfers versus a Couple of people that just want to lose 10 pounds, you know the kind of generic entrance point into fitness So here we are a decade later and we're podcasting about Yeah me why?
Michael Frampton
Yeah, so why did you say criminal justice?
Cris Mills
There was a part of me that at one point liked the idea of some type of Federal law enforcement or something so, you know, like I don't know if they do it in New Zealand But like through high school in the States you start taking these tests that will Character development tests in a sense like what type of job roles you might be suited for yeah, I kept coming up with kind of this whole criminal justice oriented thing and You know my dad pushing for professional aspects of life just started kind of you know, maybe law isn't a bad way to go so into college and just Fortunately my sister and I do really well academically so went to school for free and I'm now kind of an adult bummed out that I kind of wasted a free education on a Degree that I will never ever utilize it anyway whatsoever But look, you know, it's still worked out. Yeah No, I really maybe just think only doing well academically and through college like You get an idea of how to Study well and so much of the health realm You know, it's self -applied education going to assert Learning how like self study throwing yourself in the books on the weekend for a couple hours like being able to apply myself Academically, I think that carried over As an adult, I really wish I had kind of gone more of a medical route in school Just as an adult now to help open doors if I was a dr.
Michael Frampton
You must use it in some form you sure like some of the principles that you learned no like being able to body justice, I.
Cris Mills
Mills of some sort, you know and my ego would like that but Yeah, man college criminal justice Yeah Right with.
Michael Frampton
Because I mean and this is my thinking like in the health and fitness world. There's a lot of crooks a lot of criminals So and you've gone out and I'm guessing that you've studied a lot You've done a lot of weekend courses and done a lot of underground study in the health and fitness movement culture world So there's a certain element of criminal justice and there.
Cris Mills
Yeah, I guess I Mean the other day being in college for four years has its carryover and benefits to life I don't know. I've never really considered if it has directly applied Yeah But yeah hindsight, I mean all reality the educational system again.
Michael Frampton
In the terms of like studying discipline sort of true, yeah.
Cris Mills
I don't know how it is in all as in New Zealand Declaring your major in college at the age of 18 who the fuck knows most people don't know what it is They want to do at the age of 18. So when I was 20, so getting ready to start junior year of college It's pretty adamant. I want to take a break and even with all like Scholarships and stuff. It was feasible and my mom not holding this against her in the least She's like just stick it out or maybe it was after junior year Anyways, I was gonna take a break and I think that probably would have been beneficial for me because I would have realized let Me switch majors, but then you know Go back to school for years and years But it wasn't it was after college not immediately going to law school and just taking time off to travel traveled Australia for like Ten months went to Europe for a while just doing like the 22 year old backpacker gig that Changed my projection in life Travel and just realizing you're just figuring your shit out figuring yourself out a bit more Yeah, and realizing I didn't want to go spend 200 grand on a law degree Who knows Robbie sitting there Graduated in four I did in four and a half four in the summer.
Michael Frampton
So you how many years did you do at college then I.
Cris Mills
So yeah stand like that's You know your general four -year degree kind of thing, yeah.
Michael Frampton
And Then so what so you did your basic personal training course? And then what was your next? Dive into health and fitness.
Cris Mills
CPT which actually told you about that buddy of mine that I was just chatting with Reconnected after a decade. He's studying to take his an asm CPT cert this coming weekend funny how life cycles back like that, but after that I Started diving into all the Czech stuff and then that was I still dive into the Czech stuff. And so I was hard Into all the Paul Czech work for a long time That's probably the foundation of the way I look at the body and health and training for sure and then after the Czech stuff Did the NSCA CSCS that's kind of the standard strength and conditioning Curriculum in the States or at least it was I think it still is And then you know some of the FMS stuff got my massage Certifications licensure started doing a lot of soft tissue work More recently just took one of the functional range release certs So it's the soft tissue realm of Andre Ospina and his whole FRC thing their soft tissue curriculum is good Just impressed with that Is think of I haven't taken a RT?
Michael Frampton
It similar to a RT you.
Cris Mills
I've been treated by our T practitioners, so I can't speak wholly to their methods. I Think it is a more insightful approach to soft tissue than perhaps a RT ART makes you know your anatomy right like you need to know what you're working on, but with through some of the FR stuff they It's more research based in terms of what is structurally happening on the cellular level within tissue and how we can affect that rather than just scraping through tissue like let's What are the times under tensions? What is actually happening in the extracellular matrix the fibrosis? What are we doing? How can we change that so it's just maybe a little more methodical in its approach You know, I were chatting about DNS the DNS stuff is cool And there are definitely capitalizing on the whole surf fitness thing like I'll give them that with their marketing some of the guys in the medical director Realms within the WSL do a lot of the DNS stuff You have more experience with it than I So I'm sure you could speak to that.
Michael Frampton
And what else you'd look into studying? What else is there?
Cris Mills
It's cool. I like it. It feels good I need to do more of it to see how I can apply more of it Foundation training I think is anybody that surfs and Is they need to be doing foundation training or aspects of it? I find it to be really powerful Shout out to Eric and Jesse and the rest of the foundation training crew Those guys are all legends like really nice people. We were talking about crooks in the fitness industry. They are the polar opposite of crooks Foundation training is legit. What else has been really cool lately? That's immediately what comes to mind Development thing, right?
Michael Frampton
Yeah, DNS is it was something a lot of the poor chick stuff comes from DNS Yeah, I mean Yeah, and Feldenkrais as well is similar a lot of poor chick stuff comes from Feldenkrais and DNS Yeah, but the thing is with the DNS like yeah, they are marketing to surfers, but The thing I like about DNS is it's only marketing to surfers. It's not specific to surfing. What it is it's human movement Yes, which is what surfers need so it's going it's winding it right back to how do you organize your body correctly for any sport?
And then hit this by the way, this is how it's how it relates to surfing. So I think DNS is Everything I've done it's the foundation of everything.
Cris Mills
Well, it's foundational movement. Isn't it?
Like it's that basic Movement capacity and then once that's dialed in you can start adding load and stuff if necessary what else is really legit and I told you about this the other day Shout out to speed a sport and it curse on I think his works cool I'll start dialing some of that stuff in not to segue but while that popped in the mind But yeah, the DNS Have done two courses now both with rent Allah Smart guy and like I'd expressed to you the other day like I want if I was to start utilizing it more I either need to work with a practitioner personally have them work on my shit or just go shadow somebody and see How it's applied or could be applied Outside of just the rehabilitative realm, you know Like how to take it into more of a gym setting where people are coming to necessarily load and Yeah, I just need to learn more of it man. You know how it is.
Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, I've done like 30 to 50 probably more like 50 one -on -one Sessions with a good DNS practitioner and that's when you really learn about it And it's so it's applicable to everything because it's so finely tuned. That's the thing. I like about it is like Everything that you learn in DNS is applicable like that For example the crawl position like the fine -tuning adjustments of your spine posture and a crawl position is Completely applicable to the way you would begin a deadlift for example Certainly and then the fascinating thing is that you apply those principles you learn in the crawl position or the six -month position from DNS Into the way you lift a bar off the floor and you're just you instantly stronger instantly Well.
Cris Mills
That's it, right? Like if you get yourself into an ideal position where firing patterns can happen more reflexively or optimally, you know Get a spine into a right position things are just line of poles or more directionally oriented or something like that Do you think? You could do so here's the thing and I was talking with some guys the other day about this in the training realm Could you do a lot of the DNS stuff on your own? Had you only had like two or three sessions with somebody? No, that's my only it's this isn't bashing it at all, but I have I Want it to be I want to find a way to get people to be able to apply it on their own outside of just seeing a practitioner because like you said, it's so nuance based.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, I mean Yeah, let me I'm gonna re -answer that question and say yes and no, I think it if you've only had two or three Sessions with a practitioner you can improve what you're doing your tenfold Yeah, for sure, but to do the pure detailed form of DNS I mean if you're If you had enough mirrors to be self -aware Yeah, because it all is it's about fine -tuning your body your skeleton your skeletal position like fine -tuning like tweaking something quarter of an inch just and stuff changes Everything.
Cris Mills
Yeah, that's it right Surrounded by mirrors checking spine line. Yeah.
Minor articulation and like I don't want any but I don't want to sound like I'm bashing it at all because I'm very limited scope of Understanding of it and so as I've gone through the courses like, okay, how can I apply this? How can I dissect this and like I think it's cool. I think it feels good for me personally It's just figuring out I need to take more of it to figure out how and when and where to really start utilizing with People more effectively.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Yeah No, I think anyone out there who is a coach or a trainer or whatever should definitely look into DNS - and then anyone who's in pain as well. It's so powerful for pain. That's how I discovered it and I was in chronic back pain I'd seen everyone's Let's find it's around.
Cris Mills
To go with your back man. Yeah, it's here.
Michael Frampton
It's okay now Is it yeah, but you'd like rewind the clock back five years ago I was in a cold sweat putting my socks on in the morning pathology they know I'd learn he hated lower back discs basically, you know I had the scans and had chiropractic treatment for it and acupuncture and physical therapy and physiotherapy and Different crazy types of massages and the list goes on of the different methods I tried and they all helped somewhat but then I remember going to my first DNS Session and thinking this is not gonna do anything And I walked out for the first like the first time in years just almost free of back The first session was just breathing Lying on my back with the legs up.
Cris Mills
Kind of thing Like.
Pains.
Pain What you do first session? Prone supine so base like three month kind of thing Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, exactly and just breathing just getting the hold You know that core inflated like a balloon Expanding everywhere getting the whole diaphragm to work properly Yeah and just gave me stabilizations for the midsection just that was what kick -started me getting out of back pain and Getting function back and since then I've been diving into DNS and just applying it to everything and getting You know taking that pain and initially it was pain relief but then taking that same sort of position and breathing into functional stuff like strength training and Surfing and yeah, everything else in life. So cool. That's how I discovered it and that's why I'm sort of Diving deeper into it and getting qualified and yeah and I did have an impact injury.
Cris Mills
A good story, man. Yeah, how'd you do herniate? Was it a cute thing or like over time just.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, I grew up on a dairy farm and then when I left school, I keep working on farms I had a four -wheeler accident where I landed pretty hard on my right knee kind of jarred the whole right side of my body Right hip I think that's when it initially Sort of that's sort of tweaked it and then you know, just kept surfing and which is so much over extension and yeah, and then kept Lifting and stuff and then get strong.
Cris Mills
Strong man getting.
Michael Frampton
I did all the wrong things in the gym Yeah on top of a herniated disc and they just made it worse.
Cris Mills
I think all of us in the health room have that type of story Yeah, I've ravaged my low back before and took a long time to figure out.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Yeah, it does Yeah, anyone out there who's got lower back pain. Just forget everything you're doing. Try DNS.
Cris Mills
Yeah, I was talking with Tim Brown and not because the foundation training stuff it's on this different Spectrum was like man. How do you incorporate DNS to FT because I get the outset they seem almost Different in terms of the way they go after core activation and I think Tim put it a Good way like first especially somebody in pain Work on those kind of archetypal infant development positions kind of a DNS thing Then once you're ready to start adding some load to a system perhaps start going Yeah, some FT realms.
Michael Frampton
Actually when I was in real bad back pain I started doing foundation training and I made it made my back worse But I think that was because I didn't go and see someone I just read that read the book and did the online stuff Yeah, and now that I think back it's big. I wasn't detailed enough with my skeletal position for sure So then what I when I learned the DNS stuff I went back to foundation training with the DNS knowledge and yeah, it's awesome Yeah.
Cris Mills
I think that's probably speaks to the biggest thing anybody that's like long -term chronic back pain It's going to take a process of becoming much more physically self -aware.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, that's.
Cris Mills
It. All right like yourself you expose yourself to DNS became way more physically self -aware and acute and being able to Positionally change yourself and then took it back to FT and That's.
Michael Frampton
Part of why you get out of pain to neurologically speaking when you increase your the map of your own body Which is in your brain? You're somato sensory Awareness stuff.
Yeah is actually it helps your body to organize your everything better and move better So totally it's a loop self -awareness and learning and watching yourself and getting stronger in those positions increases your self -awareness and Which gets you out of pain, basically Yeah, that's why that's basically why all these other modalities work because they're stimulating your nervous system in a different way So acupuncture you're stimulating sharp Chiropractor you're stimulating, you know pressure and fast movement deep tissue massage You're you know stimulating the deep pressure part of the nervous system Reiki you're stimulating the oxytocin and the soft touch and the warmth part of your nervous system Physical therapy is soft touch and gentle stuff So all these different modalities are all stimulating the nervous system in different ways just to crease but increase body awareness Yeah, and that's why all these modalities work. I mean they wouldn't exist if they didn't work They just don't work for everyone for everyone's condition.
So your nervous system is always craving a particular Stimulus to get you out of pain and get you back into function So it's a matter of just finding what that stimulus is. So anyone who's in pain don't give up Modulating just keep try everything try acupuncture try chiropractor try massage try gentle massage try physical therapy try Reiki try DNS try it all you'll find what your nervous system needs to get you To get yourself awareness back up and get you out of pain.
Yeah. Yeah, that's why I see it totally.
Cris Mills
Agree and I think When it comes to that there's two aspects I think a lot of people don't necessarily talk about is one is financial capacity because like I see it when I first started doing Going back to at one point I was going back to school for physical therapy and doing some like internships and clinics and you get people that are necessarily in the medical system and financially relocated to less than optimal here so being financially capable to invest in one's own health and treatment is such a Powerful thing but we can there's a lot of access to information now via the internet so people can self -apply The other big aspect and I've gone through this not only physically but with health issues and stuff is the whole depressive aspect to pain You know chronic pain you throw some pain meds and on depression and some shitty nutrition It's gnarly.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, there's a whole that's all psychosomatic side of it too. So you can go to NOI group Have a look at Laura Moseley work.
Yeah, all of it.
Cris Mills
Yeah Yep, I'd recommend that book to so many clients that are pain issues. I'm like just go read the book.
Michael Frampton
I've shared Laura Mo has a TED talk. I've shared that with clients and it's fixed their back pain That's how powerful it is for some people that psychosomatic sort of yeah pain problem And I'll put links to all this stuff and the show notes by the way for listeners.
So yeah explain pain Yeah, that's a game changer that one too for practitioners who are treating people too. So Yeah, we are where do you point people with the people that can't afford all this stuff? We're talking about Where do you point them? It's a good question.
Cris Mills
That's a really good question, right? Cuz like Man, some of the physios I see I saw physio here in California 300 bucks a session brilliant guy worth it I've charged out anywhere from 100 to 165 an hour, you know I'm sure you're similar and a lot of people just can't afford that so generally Somebody in pain explain pain totally good. I often find myself recommending Paul checks, how do you move be healthy just get some foundational principles going depending on their pain Yeah, I guess it depends what the symptom is like what the issue is, you know Like you might go about a back differently than a shoulder issue or something like that I think what you and I are probably good at is that we've seen a lot of the field Training and modalities and we have experience.
So we're You know, there's a lot of YouTube info now. So at least you're able to Hey watch this video and start trying to feel your way through this watch this introduction to DNS supine 9090 breathing and see if you can figure it out It's tough that's it that's a tough and good question, what would you do?
Michael Frampton
I would contradict myself firstly by saying if you're not willing to put your money where true your pain is then You know good luck to you. Anyway, I totally Yeah, they might not have an iPhone and I'm not listening to this Yeah, no, I agree with what you just said that Paul checkbook the NOI group videos Yeah, I'll put links to stuff for people who are maybe in that situation as well But it ultimately come to save you might do some research find a good practitioner.
Cris Mills
Agree But like there's people that it's like, okay Am I gonna feed my kids and pay rent or am I gonna go see a physio this week? It's tough like it's a very difficult situation.
Michael Frampton
Yeah and go and see I would I Think most people living in bigger cities who are listening will have access to a physical therapist or a physio therapist Who has done at least one DNS course? Yes, and I think that would be a good place for anyone to go to yeah.
Cris Mills
Like my mom's had some wild nerve pain And I've been on the other side of the world to tried to help her as best I could but yeah She ended up seeing physio in Florida covered by her insurance who had quite a bunch of DNS background. So they're out there It's still out there.
Yeah, it's It's a tough scenario at times I think another thing with chronic pain or long -term pain is people need to understand that it's gonna take time.
Michael Frampton
Does takes time if it in nutrition and lifestyle is huge as well Like don't forget that like you can go and see the best practitioner in the world But if you're not getting enough sleep and you're eating terrible food, it's not gonna help you too much because you're just so inflamed Anyway, so.
Cris Mills
Speaking to that so I've actually meant to talk about this on Instagram. So this is a cool opportunity so I've coming off all this Health stuff that I have had there's still flare -ups at times and I've been doing some gut stuff with a guy named Jeremy Princey in West Australia. He's holistic lifestyler on Instagram smart guy And so we started doing Did some general gut testing really high and like streptococcus staphylococcus some other nasty things surprisingly no more parasite infections So, all right.
Yeah And so anyways started doing some protocols I've Never battled hardcore depression, but I have very low points I don't think I don't really know if it's low enough to warrant medication. I don't know It is in the family but Starting some gut protocols with him Threw me into The most bizarre brain chemistry I have ever felt. The most depressive Dark brain chemistry I have ever encountered Personally, but I think it I came out it lasted about four days Okay, it was just transition.
Michael Frampton
You're not selling it.
Cris Mills
It was just transition of yeah, Laura and I think it speaks to Again, this other aspect of health Just nutrition what's your gut doing? Yeah, if that influences my brain chemistry that hard think of what that would exacerbate that somebody's already in a heightened system state for pain You know, and so again, it's this whole relevance of I guess, you know the term holistic approach But yeah, the gut stuff was wild man. That was the first time I personally felt it was bizarre to Nutritionally didn't change too much because I already eat largely clean Modulated carbohydrate intake a bit but really just started doing some specific probiotic protocols.
Michael Frampton
See you started like a kind of a gaps diet type strict diet.
Okay.
Cris Mills
And it just Threw everything into a bit of a bacterial war probably within my system interesting. Yeah.
Yeah. It was wild fascinating So what I've gleaned from Jeremy is that get your diet, right and You probably shouldn't necessarily be dosing probiotics unless you've had some testing to see what you need and that made sense to me after discussions with him because Or just use some of the like the more research based strains But even then I think like if you're eating pretty damn well most the time you're introducing a lot of beneficial things to the system I do a a crowd do some beak boss I'll do some boots against the beach I've made I used to make kombucha.
Michael Frampton
There's always a lot of debate about the probiotic stuff.
Do you sauerkraut? Kraut.
Yeah Duke butcher kombucha.
Cris Mills
I Haven't anymore since we've been in Bali haven't been doing the fermented stuff making it. No, we'll still eat it for sure. Keith Never done I've never made it.
Michael Frampton
It keep her a little bit of kefir.
Cris Mills
Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Yeah more the water kefir stuff. I'm not so much into dairy Yeah, I thought I used to do the goats milk kefir a long time ago Yeah, but I know you get water kefir coconut water often kefir you can buy that at Whole Foods nowadays You can buy all this fancy Stuff from the shelf now that I don't even have to make it.
Cris Mills
Being back in the state. So this is the first time back in the States in a few years Walking into a trader because I'm out of Bali for the most part now and in WA where we were living there wasn't really access To like a trader Joe I walk into a trader Joe's and just spin out It's incredible Yeah, California man, Southern California a lot of stuff going on over here with access to.
Michael Frampton
There is yeah. Yeah, it's a big part of the culture You can't almost need it just to survive here though Everything else is so gnarly.
Cris Mills
Gnarly, so LA was a wake -up call. Like I hadn't spent as much time in LA ever until now and just in your face Dichotomy of life the spectrum Like I think I told you when we were chatting on the phone like down the street from my sister's house as a car mechanic Where they're just working on McLaren's and Lamborghinis and Ferraris and then right there some people living out of tents Man heavy.
Michael Frampton
That's one thing about America when you come and live here and you realize the homeless people problem is so intense it's I don't know how the government just kind of turns a blind eye to it.
Cris Mills
Yeah, something come up on the Facebook feed today that they had I didn't look at it So I can't speak to its validity or anything, but the headline was something along like More than half of those homeless have had some type of TBI traumatic brain injury.
Michael Frampton
It's beyond me I saw.
Cris Mills
Yeah.
Michael Frampton
For sure. It's a mental. It's a mental health issue. It's not a homeless issue Yeah, I'm percent like in New Zealand people don't live on the streets. You could say legal like yeah We put the mental health system in a New Zealand would look after them. Do you know what I mean?
Like Yeah, it's like what the fuck is in America doing that to the half of them are veterans Aren't they that served must a lot of them at least a I think that literally served to this country and then the country goes all the what's their excuse?
Cris Mills
Large proportion?
Michael Frampton
They want to live on that. They choose to live on the street.
Well, I Don't think mental health is it's not an answer for the homeless. No person situation. It's bizarre.
Cris Mills
America's a strange place and I can I think I can speak to it somewhat Just because I've now lived overseas for you know, five six seven years or something America's The best of like you're seeing the best and worst And it's this I see it almost is like going through this weird Transitionary period where it's become this thing that Wasn't necessarily intended It's weird man, it's bizarro world and again, you see this full spectrum of what has culminated in terms of Capitalism and investment in technology and development and in flourishing capitalism, but you see the full effect of like the downstream of that the wastes and disregards and So yeah next 50 years in the US is gonna be wild gnarly it's exactly it.
Michael Frampton
It's gnarly it's so bizarre. Well, like why doesn't the government look after these? People it's really strange. It's I think it's really sad. It's Incredibly, I don't know. I don't have the answer but no, whatever No one's even trying it seems at the moment people just turn a blind eye to it.
Cris Mills
Yeah, I certainly don't have the answers and I'm not Politically involved. I just kind of look at it as an outside viewpoint and see that it's Something a fundamental Value system in America needs to shift The political system is not going to shift like we all know how bullshit and corrupt and all that stuff is it there needs to be an entire Our value system has become corrupt in a sense.
Michael Frampton
Guess you got you like you used to it here in America almost Yeah, it's part of it as an outsider coming in It seems so strange to me that how massive the homelessness problem is and.
Cris Mills
There's a lot of great things about America incredible. Like I'm astounded you as well That's being fortunate enough to be born in North America, Australia, New Zealand parts of Europe like we're a small percentage of lucky people to have been born where we are born, but Yeah in the States, there's a you know, like anywhere there's heavy downsides.
Yeah And so definitely a transitionary period Again, but you got to deal with politics, right?
Michael Frampton
Yeah, it seems like such a Simple fix though the door That's what Paul it's kind of politicians a job, isn't it?
Cris Mills
It's just all comes down to only they do their fucking.
Michael Frampton
If job. Yeah, exactly Yeah, I mean obviously there needs a lot of money put into the mental health system to look after these people I don't know but if anyone any listeners have any insights on this because it's.
Cris Mills
Yeah, I have no idea But something I'm sure there's a lot of social workers and stuff But people have brilliant ideas and yeah again, it just comes down to investment of money and educational systems shifting Things will change. It's just you know You again you see these positive things being done that come up in my Facebook feed or something and people diverting parking garages into betting situations for homeless and I don't have much awareness until LA like I said, I've been overseas last couple years and In suburbia of Florida, you don't see it But then New York LA I hear San Francisco is pretty gnarly.
Michael Frampton
Do you know I went there for the first time Well a couple of months ago and it's like It's gnarly because not only you've got these lots of homeless people around it. They're aggressive the yelling and screaming like It's next -level intensity on the homeless people you got these businessmen suits walking past some homeless dude who's yelling at a policeman Literally was my like driving through in a taxi in the scent in downtown, San Francisco. That's the scene.
Cris Mills
It's intense. It's Did you read about the guy they just arrested in Canada? He had been the serial poop thrower He had been throwing buckets of like Human excrement on people he had done it to like four or five or six people before he finally got arrested buckets Not like just a single like turd This is where you expected this podcast to go Buckets what would you do what if I could even would it certainly would it's would certainly ruin your day.
It would take you a moment I was telling my sister. I'm like, okay first off I don't know how quickly my brain would shift from shock and awe to like immediate rage and attacking this person or would you just be like so like What just happened like so taken aback by it that you just freeze and stand there and like so like a bucket like Yeah America god bless America So we're gonna take this back to surfing.
Michael Frampton
Someone was like walking up to? People in bucket bro, like with a bucket or take That's bizarre, sorry, I don't mean America, right god bless.
There's a lot of there's a lot of semi homeless surfers around to Yeah living in vans just surfing.
Cris Mills
Living in vans and stuff or what?
Michael Frampton
Is there You see them parked up along the PCH a lot around that sort of around the Topanga area.
Cris Mills
Any more up and down here? You can still camp on beaches.
Michael Frampton
There's a lot of Old school Winnebago's that seem to just be there all the time. So I'm guessing that's where they're allowed to be.
Yeah, we call them freedom campers in New Zealand. It's awesome and have out there's they have alligated spots next to public toilet That's cool for them.
Like we kind of make Space for them. I'm guessing that's what's done here as well because they seem to be always mingle around the same areas Yeah, there's the odd portal to around so No bucket throwing Yeah, and it's hard enough to find a public toilet in any city in America.
Cris Mills
Time to get tested for TV after that happens.
Michael Frampton
Let alone being a homeless person who's What else you gonna do.
Cris Mills
And a clean public toilet, you know, like living in Oz I was always impressed by the cleanliness of public toilets for the most part when you're outside of the major cities Even Sydney does pretty clean But like in WA you'd sudden you'd forever be walking into a public toilet. That's just you're happy to sit upon It's not like the ones in Venice I was just out the other day.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. No Yeah, you got people most living in there.
Yeah, and then know tell me your relationship to surfing at the moment, ooh.
Cris Mills
I love where this conversation Yeah How you gonna bring this back to surfing I don't.
I've always kind of this is interesting because I've had conversations with people on our trips have asked me about this because I've always kind of Viewed myself as outside of the surf industry in this whole surf realm And I think I probably need to explain that more articulately and I'm probably gonna struggle doing so but I've never like Been in the who's who of the surf industry? I'm not like the in crowd with the boys and so I've always kind of seen his kind of fringe like I'm not hanging out with the who's who the surf world and I'm often just like the I'm not doing this any justice at all Can you learn why don't you ask that question again and let's restart that you're gonna delete that bit from this.
Michael Frampton
Let's say What is? Describe your relationship to the ocean.
Cris Mills
Yeah, I have to be with it man. It's an integral part of my life energetically Financially even now like my life is intertwined with surfing and with the ocean and involvement with it I have to like I haven't surfed since I've been in California and if that continued there hit a tipping point where I'm like I need to go surf I need to get in the ocean. I think there's something deeply energetic that speaks to that and So It's an intimate part of who I am and my life has now kind of become structured around the ocean and interaction with it and Helping to influence others interaction with it and so I guess I am probably part of this whole surf industry machine I've just never like a growing up right like walking into a surf shop. They're always too cool and skate shops Like I was never one of the cool like Surf dudes They're the fucking worst both like bunch of egotistical It's a spin -out man, and so in that consideration, I've always kind of seen myself outside it like I don't have People in the surf industry phone numbers and contacts and stuff And so I've always just been you know Kind of one of those people is just really keen to surf and then it's just so happened now Professionally the last couple years that I think we're probably Like yourself included were the term influencers stupid and doesn't but you're spreading information and influencing people's The way they interact with the ocean the way surfing is instrumental in their life That's pretty cool.
Michael Frampton
Surfers are the worst.
Yeah No, I'm the same. I used to be so I guess it's like if you have a I think if you have a good No, I'm good how would you describe it like I think if you have a Balanced relationship with surfing then you tend not to dive too deep into it because yeah I think sometimes if you let surfing rule you Then you can just get a little bit too involved Which I mean if you're making money out of it and your career isn't surfing that makes sense but if you're not then it can take away from other aspects of your life that can Certainly can ruin your relationships with other things or people and.
Cris Mills
I've derailed Aspects of my life just to surf or to do it more frequently and change projection of things And then when we were in Colorado for Thanksgiving, I was like I could happily Stay in Colorado for a few months But I would need to snowboard. So there would still be that kind of Physical need for that kind of there's something in intrinsically awesome about the feelings you get when surfing and I would still chase that Just some other way.
Michael Frampton
Yeah adrenaline part of it adrenaline. Yeah and nursing in nature.
Cris Mills
I think the physics that you feel in surfing are super fun the at Holic, you know, like roller coasters It's that drop right that type of stuff again. It's tapping into all this Neurotransmitter and brain chemistry and stuff, but it's just fun And so there would be aspects of that I would have to translate to my life if I wasn't around the ocean So that would be inherent and so yeah, I'd have to snowboard I'd happily go snowboard for a few months in Colorado and then probably have to refix my surf stance after that Common super common.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, that's common Yeah, Twiggy just spoke about that on the previous the Yeah Yeah.
Cris Mills
Yeah, you can point it you can see him in the lineup. Whole back foot back leg knee position thing.
Yeah. Shout out to Twiggy.
Yeah, it's I think the whole he and I chat about the back foot thing a lot It's a on progression that back leg back knee thing it will Stagnate any further progression in your surfing.
Michael Frampton
For sure. I don't screw your knee.
So yeah. Yeah longevity that's the cool thing actually one of the positions in DNS 12 month position Basically just mimics good surfing stance good surfing posture And what Clayton would say isn't like kind of in between that squat and lunge position the squange Yeah, okay.
Cris Mills
That's correct, that's physiologically correct term. The squange Yeah We can bring it back to surfing. It's Getting into more of that athletic sprinter out of the blocks squanjie position Orthopedically it puts you like you get this we can nerd out on it Orthopedically it puts you in a position where you have better access to all your joint range of motion Like the hips your foot points backwards you ain't gonna be able to rotate the pelvis.
Yeah on a fixed externally rotated femur So get into that Boxer athletic sprinter stance position be soft.
Michael Frampton
Yeah simple. Simple stuff. So, where are you living now, Bali?
Cris Mills
Yeah, Bali so the last two years we were in WA a year and a half or two Yeah, and so we're predominantly based out of Bali for the next at least year I do mostly online stuff Okay, and we're running trips now internationally coaching Me and clay are at macaroni's all January February end of January February, so we're doing about like five week long ones there and then we've got a Men trip about trip in March.
Michael Frampton
Or so Yeah, and you work one -on -one with clients in Bali. Trips. When's the next trip?
Cris Mills
We're at Nicaragua with Jade in June camps to 10 -day camps?
Michael Frampton
What dates do you know the dates to red so that's at Malibu Papaya when you're a guava.
Cris Mills
I think the first one starts the third the second one starts the 14th shout out to Jade Malibu full except We're gonna run a telos boat trip in November It's incredible like I never Thought I'd be running surf trips ever It wasn't even an inkling until I got kicked out of Australia more or less with some visa stuff and met Twiggy And then I happen to already know clay and things have coalesced into running trips now So yeah, they fill up like 12 months in advance Wow us if you're an intermediate surfer and want to go Surf tell us November 5th through 16th We're gonna do a trip on star co -op to with Bruno surfer or meant to I surf charters will be I haven't even released those details yet But yeah first exclusive to the surf Mastery listeners Yeah, I think that we've got ten.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, Papaya. Yeah I'll put links to that in the show notes. All trips are full. Really all trips are All trips are full already.
Okay, well as it spaces on any trips or if listeners are inspired to tell.
Epic and that's like on what details are on your website.
Cris Mills
We'll have we'll take ten surfers on that trip Yeah, and if people go to the website surf strength coach calm There's a surf trip sign up form if they look at surf trips There's a sign up that people on that list are first to get notified.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, I'm sure you'll throw a flyer up on Instagram when that's released. Yeah.
Cris Mills
Yeah, so how was Nicaragua?
Michael Frampton
Amazing? Yeah, it's good, there.
Cris Mills
It's been about 12 13 years since I've been.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, okay Yeah, no, Nicaragua was amazing. The trip was amazing the Malibu Papua Is an amazing resort? Great waves all sorts of types of waves to just within five minutes drive. It's like it's paradise and it's such a cool vibe down there too. I think it's very It's kind of similar to Bali. I think maybe like it's very earthy and volcanic II. It's like you feel very grounded there Very well kind of yeah.
Yeah, there's nowhere near as busy as Bali. It's so it's super chill.
Yeah, but yeah, man Yeah, it's cool I want to go back soon did you Yeah, I've had that good Yeah wave great wave.
Cris Mills
Get papaya main break good?
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Yeah This wave was just some random beach break that would there was no one at just had these beautiful Awesome a frames just rolling through just if you want to drive a little bit and go to a random beach break You just get it to yourself. It's like it's paradise man. That's super cool.
Yeah.
Cris Mills
And then yeah, so Nicaragua haven't been there in ages. So looking forward to that and then I want to go hit up El Salvador afterwards.
Michael Frampton
Yep
Cris Mills
Surf some points. I haven't done El Salvador.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, I was there last year Surf Punta Roca.
Cris Mills
We down there with a.
Michael Frampton
Camp. Yeah, I was down there. I stayed at a camp Which name eludes me at the moment?
Cris Mills
You need some more mushrooms get that brain doing its thing the Performance camp.
Michael Frampton
Maybe why can't I think of the name? Per I was at Peru surf stayed there. That's.
Cris Mills
Yes. Yeah, what's Marcelo is his name? I think that's the one.
Yeah. Yeah, I've been in touch with those It looks like they're doing cool stuff.
Yeah, I've been in touch about potentially doing a camp there. Yeah, Yeah, cool.
Michael Frampton
It's great spot Yeah, the wave just out front is called Elizondo I think is a fun little right hand sort of reefy point break You can just surf out there every day if you want You can go drive around the corner to Punta Roca, which is an intent was a proper shallow barreling fast Riffable reef to the right point break like yeah, it's a right hander. Yeah, cool I wouldn't recommend that Beginner surfers go there though.
Yeah and the bit intermediate to advanced surfers for sure. It's a good spot to go to cool.
Yeah.
Cris Mills
Yeah. Yeah looking forward to that one and then Yeah, central, you know what I'm stoked about is the queso frito it's so It's like fried cheese. They do in Central America. It's similar to halloumi One thing about living in Australia. There's no good Latin food Okay, man the queso frito and the plantains Platanos, let's plot in those probably butchering that you know, be fluent man I was fluent in Spanish queso frito In college I did I even did a study abroad Costa Rica lived with a family for a couple months Yo quiero queso frito.
Michael Frampton
Don't worry about the surfing just the cheese you were definitely butchering. I used to not the Inflations and the yo -yo.
Say that again Costa Rica. No, they're the Look here. Okay. It's a free to yo Give it some.
Cris Mills
Care. You know, it's why I Don't even know if I can do it. Yo quiero queso frito. It's better. It's Terrible I've finally started learning bahasa indonesia bahasa and even my sister's boyfriend, he's Where is he? Venezuela's Honduras Honduran, I think I'll drop a little Spanish to him every now and then and my brain just throws bahasa into it like with numbers Like saw two instead of uno Saw two taco por favor man Terribly started properly doing some apps when I get back to Bali.
Michael Frampton
So Can you speak a little bit of.
Cris Mills
I'll start working with the tutor. - I think learning a foreign language or musical instrument two crucial things just for long -term like not having a brain that sucks and I think sure with my history of occasional narcotic use and head injuries You've some head like knocked unconscious handful of times and and so speaking with doctors and stuff through health stuff and Yeah, you to do is probably all I can for some brain health.
Michael Frampton
Had some head injuries heavy.
Cris Mills
- So yeah musical instrument You got some guitars laying around. --- Can you shred on?
Michael Frampton
Gonna know about shred, but I like to play. Yeah Have you done? If you looked into like vision and vestibular Training for your health if you've been knocked out yeah, I'm not the least of your problem.
Cris Mills
I've seen See, so I've never had like I would assume I've had concussions, but I've never had any long -term so I've never had Typical TBI symptoms, you know what? I mean like.
Michael Frampton
Well, they can manifest yeah, they can manifest as gut health issues because if you but if you damage that part of your brain Then that's the symptoms it depends on what part of your brain you damage Yeah, it really is to what symptoms you get. It's very specific can be anything from mental health to You know something your hearing is weird or your vision is weird or you don't think you lost for words You have gut issues one side of your body doesn't work, right Liz the list goes on so depending on what part of your brain got damaged is Kind of determine what symptoms you have.
Yeah, but the thing is that the usually the protocols for Rehabilitation are always the first point of call is which is the first thing It's actually the first thing you learn to do as an infant is what is to stabilize your gaze?
So the to be able to keep you your eyes still on one point, right? The better you can do that the better everything else is didn't I Studied one -on -one under someone else who he's done all the Z health stuff and all the carrot stuff.
Cris Mills
You do a bunch of neurology kind of training? Yeah, and I've heard good things about those guys. I believe.
Michael Frampton
Yeah So he was a sort of my filter cool But you the gaze stabilization is there's a big one that you need to look at especially after brain traumatic brain injury.
Cris Mills
We had a guy miss out on our last North Sumatra trip boat trip Got hit by some mal surfboard out in the water heavy concussion like full spectrum of heavy TBI symptoms still wild.
Michael Frampton
Yeah fix that gaze Stabilization. Yeah You can look up the troxler effect, okay, which is a It's kind of like a it's an optical illusion Which gives you feedback as to whether you are stabilizing your gaze.
Cris Mills
So how would somebody start doing that?
Michael Frampton
So in order to make this optical illusion Work, you need to be able to stabilize your gaze to a certain level. Otherwise, it just won't happen It's called the troxler effect. I can put a link to that in the show notes Basically you put a practice Staring at them keep trying to keep your vision still and Keeping your and beyond move your head slowly from left to right.
So cool. Can your eyes move independently of your head? It's important. Your vision is the main sense. We live we basically live through our eyes Yeah, and if that's not working properly the brain knows that on a subconscious level and just holds everything back So the more your brain constant Yeah.
Cris Mills
Threat stress perceived stress exactly.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, that's exactly what it is So the more your brain trusts your vision the better your brain works simple as that and yeah, if your vision isn't right there then everything else isn't right there pretty much and Most brain injuries are going to affect That because it's a very fine -tuned skill to be able to keep your gaze still and they see it's impossible to be completely still It's what you either that's Miro cicade Yeah, that's it.
Cris Mills
The term. What's the term for the little slight? I You know what I'm talking about.
Michael Frampton
That's it. So the smaller those micro cicades are the better your gaze stabilization is And when I say gaze stabilization, I don't mean anti homo homosexual.
Cris Mills
Some people somebody's gonna hit you up on social media. I'm triggered.
Yeah, I don't I'm so triggered.
Michael Frampton
Yeah gazes isn't staring not.
Cris Mills
I I'm gonna write somebody to cancel this show.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, so you can your eyes are always moving it small amounts but after you can fine -tune those small amounts That's the ability to stabilize your gaze.
Cris Mills
Yeah interesting Against again needed to clarify I Got one of my last big knockouts I was dating a girl and I was living in Sydney and she kicked up into a handstand and I woke up bleeding out of my mouth on the floor Kick me in the jaw knocked me unconscious bit through my tongue chip some teeth Kicked me on the right side and so now You ever do like just I circles like head still yeah, I always have a hard time upper right always noticeably hard there woke up on the floor bleeding in my mouth walked into the bathroom Moved my jaw manually with my hands to see if it had fully dislocated and pass back out on the bathroom That was the last big one so now if you watch me talk I laterally deviate to the right to my left Sorry to my left.
Michael Frampton
G -a -z -e.
Quadrant Yeah, so then you'd go to that quadrant and work on it. Yeah.
Interesting. Yeah some work to be done Yeah, so yeah vision I mean that's your was the thing you're stabilizing your gaze it's the first gaze II yeah Vestibular stuff as well.
Cris Mills
Right.
Michael Frampton
Like can you bet stand on one foot with your eyes closed? For example, that's a Skill you need to be able to have a lot of so surprisingly How many people just can't even do that like stand on one foot with their eyes closed.
Cris Mills
Difficult. I have tell most people start brushing your teeth on one foot and then once you're there close your eyes Yeah, don't worry about standing on a bunch of unstable surfaces yet.
Yeah, it's on.
Michael Frampton
A foot. Yeah balance on your non -dominant foot and use your opposite hands to brush your teeth. I Yeah ambidexterity.
Cris Mills
Try to often eat Switching hands.
Michael Frampton
Yeah most golf pros do some of that to counteract the asymmetry of this sport.
Cris Mills
Yeah, you said when I was younger used to golf swing a golf club left -handed you know on We have a Facebook page that likes for those that are going through my app like this community of just surf strength coach community I think Yeah, shout out to my app surf athlete go down.
Michael Frampton
We have an app.
Cris Mills
I'll show it to you man. I'll show you on the phone Go download the surf athlete. There's a free version and then there's Programs for sale within the app the surf athletes a 12 -week protocol me and Clayton just released some of his content or will be in the app I Remember what I was talking about TB eyes man.
Yeah, I totally lost track of what we were talking about I have no idea literally no idea. We Yeah, and then Vision and then I got on a tangent and the app came up and I have no idea balance training, yeah, I don't know.
Michael Frampton
Were talking about TB eyes. Yeah, kind of been that important that's what you're talking about people like brushing teeth That's it.
Yeah interrupted you.
Cris Mills
I've totally lost. Yeah So yeah an app so that was quite a process of technological development.
Michael Frampton
I can imagine so, how would you describe your so your mostly work online I.
Cris Mills
Prefer to mostly work one -on -one With people With travel at times that's obviously difficult So like I've linked up with some people here in LA done some training some rehab some tissue work some skateboard training and then Do online coaching with some people I've kind of stepped back from some of the more online coaching Processes to just more of the app development the last couple months. - working with a buddy in Bali getting all this app stuff sorted So, yeah the apps there So yeah, I prefer one -on -one like my skill set is like you and me in a gym.
Yeah, let's make you Better.
Michael Frampton
Yeah So app go and check out the app surf athlete.
Cris Mills
Yep, you can download it in the App Store like I said, there's a free version with some free workouts in there and then Just different paid options depending what you want and how much you want. Yep, 35 55 year old professional of some aspect still wanting to surf in either Realizing that their health is a fundamental aspect of their ability to surf It is the foundation of it or coming off some type of surgery injury kind of rehab thing So that more post therapy rehabilitative meshing or moving into strength and conditioning stuff.
Michael Frampton
And who's your typical client?
Cris Mills
- Yeah that 35 to 55 year old realm, yeah, is surf strength coach strength coach.
Michael Frampton
Okay and website calm and Instagram surf.
Cris Mills
All right the world of surf strength The name stuck man. It's too ingrained. I can't change it now. It's all good Yeah, yes, it's been a ride all right, when yeah just before leaving Bali a Place around the corner from Ulus.
Michael Frampton
Is the last time you surfed.
Cris Mills
I don't want to say the name because it's starting to get a little busier It's on the kind of east side of the book it Throwing up I'm throwing up the e right now you guys can't see it listening For life man, so yeah living in Bali.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, he sighed for life.
Cris Mills
I'll surf a lot of great surf. It's incredible.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, I surfed on the east side Place called Like right round on the east side this wild wave In front of a kind of a lagoon thing had to take a boat out.
Cris Mills
I think I know it though.
Michael Frampton
I can't remember what it's called Even if it was crowded it's like such a shifty gnarly lineup.
Cris Mills
Yeah, you say.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, right on Like it would it just wouldn't get crowded like you need to take a boat out through the lagoon dodgy boat Yeah.
Cris Mills
Anyway, but he's getting crazy especially down the book I have nothing bad to say about it and the guys have been going there since the 80s, but what I see Like that whole east coast of the book it Most of those cliffs are being dredged out for just monster infrastructure of hotels And there's always already such a water crisis.
Michael Frampton
Really?
Cris Mills
Like it's startling it's Absolutely astounding like Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Freshwater crisis.
Cris Mills
Yeah that you know, it's I've only been going there a few years like I don't know it of its in its heyday 80s 90s But to see the development that's just largely unchecked, you know, it's sad. Yeah, it's still incredible place.
Yeah, very fortunate to be there You at least once and just as the jumping -off point for the rest of Indo, at least paddle out once.
Michael Frampton
Got to go there at least once if you're a surfer yeah, you know and got everyone has to serve. Loser, right yeah, it is.
Cris Mills
Yeah It's a special place like Incredible Fiona broker knows there about just a few months back my partner She yeah, like, you know, I think more people do.
Michael Frampton
I'm surprised more people don't get hurt there I was when I peddled out there for the first time like I was like wow, this place is gnarly and I could half the people out there I was like, how did you guys even peddle out? Like falling not going over the falls on coral reef coming up unscathed.
Cris Mills
Isn't it insane like I'll get out there some days and I'm like, I'm kind of little on edge And there's people just flailing around.
Michael Frampton
I'm going You shouldn't even be out here. How are you gonna get back in through the cave at high tide? My goodness.
Cris Mills
I think more people probably get hurt Then we're aware of yeah, like I reckon if you sat on those cliffs, you'd see some people walking up barely walking Cuz everybody I know even competent surfers have gotten fucked up.
Michael Frampton
I did see a few like.
Cris Mills
It's sooner or later man. Just one bad spill that hits the reef. They don't just lucky that maybe it hasn't happened quite yet Yeah, incredible way. It stresses me out man. Lulu's like six foot on my back hand starts stressing me out It's.
Michael Frampton
The wave is moving so quickly the swell was just moving so fast You don't even realize it just but once you get on one, it's a.
Cris Mills
Ride our neighbor Him and these other boys. They're kind of the older crew that are proper chargers man, like He's like Chris. Let's go out There's fucking 12 foot plus and your board weighs like 15 pounds This is not my type of surfing but you go watch him. It's like 18 foot faces.
Yeah Different level different calibers.
Michael Frampton
Yeah I mean I've interviewed Matt Granger was talking about his big wave stuff he charges some pretty big waves, but he's not a big wave competitor.
Cris Mills
Have you interviewed any big wave? Chargers.
Yeah, but still it's an impressive It's.
Michael Frampton
A different. I mean, I've been out with Matt a triple overhead out of reef stuff and it's a harrowing experience Perfect word some but it's I can see the it's addictive like it's Like I this is a visit You'd have ones you have a two to three hour session and big waves and get some you get some triple overhead monsters on a gun it's There's nothing compares in terms of adrenaline Nothing and you get nailed by a couple when you wake up the next day and you just feel like you've been hard Yeah, and just the I guess the whole come down from all that neurochemistry like you're depressed for a week okay, I It's gnarly.
Yeah, I get to hold different sport almost.
Cris Mills
Yeah, I'd like to I was linked up with some guys So like Owen Schultz you guys go follow him on Instagram. It's called wavering emotions emotion like ocean like the ocean Underscore nicest dude charger underground charger man and You know surf with some of those boys on days that they're just like playing around with it I'm like man, this is stressful but yeah, it's I'm really intrigued by themselves as characters individual people to see What's the driver? Because I've growing up just always surf myself.
Like I have never really had many surf buddies Usually just been me and it's you know, I want to know if it's like a Group mindset like you grow up with some buddies and all of you collectively are pushing So like that's the North Shore thing, right? Like you grow up and there's this familial expectation and you're surrounded by brothers and or people that are so, you know, I want to know the Bigger wave thing charging thing because I have a block almost like I need some guys with me To tell me I'm being a pussy.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, you do you and you want people there to feel safer and total I think I get the driver I mean, it's the It's just extreme. It's like extreme you get into a very deep flow state Yeah, you put yourself in those situations and you kind of step up you have to yeah time slows down You get a huge adrenaline rush. It's a thrill. It's addictive It's I get the driver for it for sure. Absolutely incredible experience Like I was kind of hooked on it for a while when I was living in Sydney. I was just doing breath training Yeah, I totally get the driver.
Cris Mills
There's a lot of big waves around Sydney.
Michael Frampton
But those guys who do that, you know quadruple overhead shallow waves that's next level like That's life. I mean, I guess that even in even a deeper flow state even more risk even you know more Bigger the risk the bigger the reward per se, right?
Cris Mills
We met Shannon. We're all Shannon we're all when we were in WA he does the shark eyes deter deterrent And he won like two of the year a couple years back and those guys that surf the right in WA it just doesn't make physical sense It's incredible and yeah, it's chasing Something astounding and I reckon if they weren't surfing that chase would show up somewhere else for sure be because most of them were chill really Yeah something finding that chemistry an altered state essentially.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, that'd mellow base jumpers or something. Yeah, there's just those individuals that need to do something like that. It's Indeed Yeah, no, I have actually interviewed Tom Carroll about it too, yeah, not the whole interview wasn't about it but yeah back in episode Two I think maybe I can't even remember.
Cris Mills
Yeah, and altered states can be really fun indeed.
Michael Frampton
I'll put a link to that. How many how This would be About 50th.
Cris Mills
Many podcasts have you done now?
Michael Frampton
Yeah Close to 50. Yeah, I think I just released the last one I did was 49 with Twiggy.
Cris Mills
So what'd you learn from that chat with Twiggy Would you pick up any gleamingly insights because I've learned a lot watching that guy surf. Yeah, I Physically have learned a lot from him and the way he is orchestrated his life He's a good guy good human.
Michael Frampton
Yeah incredibly positive good Yeah, he's just froth like all letters.
Cris Mills
Incredibly like I was telling you earlier before we started like I can easily go low and so for me to be around him is capital life, man It's it.
Michael Frampton
I took he's been through some stuff in his life and he's not embarrassed to share it and he's which is awesome You got to appreciate every day and he certainly does that. I think that's that would be Howard Yep.
Cris Mills
Sunrise, yep. Yep.
Michael Frampton
Just frothing like still ripping at 50 like just He is does I think inspirational the.
Cris Mills
Is he 50 now close 50. If not, he's close. He shreds.
Yeah, he shreds me. He more especially now running trips and the more I've worked with people and there's Unless there's some Unfortunate acute accident trauma. There's no reason you can't keep surfing Well and progressing and should have later decades the refinement of technique. Yeah figuring out what your body needs Yeah, mechanically nutritionally emotionally spiritually kind of thing I.
Michael Frampton
Totally agree and even more so now. I mean some of the We're just learning so much more about the human body and health and fitness It's by the time you and I are 50 with who knows what's gonna be around. I'm.
Cris Mills
Gonna be chucking airs We've got a guy that's joined us on a couple trips named Chris his lot legend of a dude He's Got some more years on him than Twiggy and he shreds full shortboard hacks like so yeah seeing more and more of that and working with clay and figuring out technique and again just Figuring out what my body needs physically. I said this whole health thing man It's just a process of figuring out what works for you Yeah, Yeah, that's what I need to probably work more on headspace type of shit not headspace the app but just the whole So I haven't ever used it.
Michael Frampton
The bio individuality. That's it, man yeah and there's the emotional and spiritual component to which you can't ignore.
Although that does help.
Cris Mills
Is it good?
Michael Frampton
I think it's good. It's good I think the depend that whole mindfulness meditation world. I think that waking up app is better Sam Harris is just.
Cris Mills
Okay Yeah, I know it. I've been listening a lot of dispenser. I do a lot of dispenser meditations His voice is quirky, but I've gotten used to Yeah, we're chatting I think that's the biggest hindrance for a lot of people Is their time frame constraints?
Michael Frampton
It. I know I do Kili meditation now.
Yeah. About that I'm on the Kili buzz But so it's so easy a quick five minute meditation.
Yeah.
Cris Mills
Yeah So even for me like if I click on a dispenser meditation like me this one's an hour I've got time for that.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, so Yeah, it's almost unnecessary too because you can't Focus for an hour at least Yeah, and meditation isn't Really?
Cris Mills
I can't.
Michael Frampton
You shouldn't be focusing on something. Anyway, the whole point is to not focus on anything meditation Yeah, I've hashed the shit out of Kili meditation on this podcast listeners are probably getting sick of it. They're.
Cris Mills
Stoked I'm gonna go check out the app. They're gonna check out my app. They're gonna go watch big mouth.
Michael Frampton
Thank you, man, all right, man, should we let's wrap this up cool.
Cris Mills
It's been good.
Michael Frampton
Thanks for taking the time.
Cris Mills
100 % man. It's good to get on a Just ramble that was a ramble. That was epic.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, people want it. Don't know how you know if they're still listening surely they wanted it.
Cris Mills
They're listening for sure.
Michael Frampton
Are they still?
Cris Mills
Yeah All strength coach on pretty much all social medias surf strength coach the app Surf athlete go check out Twiggy.
Michael Frampton
Right, what was it surf strength at Instagram so.
Cris Mills
Go check out clay.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. All right, man. Thanks, dude. Thank you. Thank you.
52 Cris Mills - Surf Strength Coach
For the passionate surfer—whether you're a weekend warrior, a surf dad, or an older surfer—this podcast is all about better surfing and deeper stoke. With expert surf coaching, surf training, and surfing tips, we’ll help you catch more waves, refine your paddling technique, and perfect your pop up on a surfboard. From surf workouts to handling wipeouts, chasing bigger waves, and mastering surf technique, we’re here to make sure you not only improve but truly enjoy surfing more—so you can get more out of every session and become a wiser surfer. Go from Beginner or intermediate Surfer to advanced.