053: SAMBA MANN - Surf Coach
SHOW NOTES
Do you keep getting frustrated in the surf, even after years of paddling out?
In this episode, Michael Frampton sits down with renowned coach Samba Mann to unpack why so many adult intermediate surfers hit a plateau—covering everything from wave reading and board choice to mental expectations and surf etiquette.
Learn the exact mindset shift that transforms your sessions from stressful to smooth
Discover the most overlooked technical errors in duck diving, paddling, and positioning
Get a glimpse into the future of surf coaching with real-time, in-water guidance and jet ski support
Press play now to learn how to dramatically improve your surfing—even if you're only hitting the water once a month.
Samba Mann is one of Australia's most experienced surf coaches, he works with all levels of surfers, including the worlds best at the HPC.
https://www.instagram.com/samba_mann/?hl=en
Key Points
Julie Cox is hosting a longboard and creativity retreat in Nicaragua from May 12th to 17th at Malibu Popoyo Resort.
Taylor Knox and Matt Griggs Surf Coaching Week is scheduled for September 12th to 19th.
Samba Man has conducted various surf camps, including those for military personnel with PTSD and surfers with disabilities.
Common mistakes among surfers include managing session expectations, wave reading, paddling techniques, and surf etiquette.
Surfers should be aware of their surfing pathway and the type of board that suits their goals.
Duck diving is a crucial skill for surfers, especially those who surf at beach breaks.
Paddling technique and fitness are essential for improving surfing performance.
Managing expectations and goal setting are important for surfers aiming to improve.
Surfers should focus on getting speed and maintaining a high line rather than immediately dropping to the bottom of the wave.
Surf etiquette is deteriorating, and surfers need to be more respectful and aware of local customs and crowded lineups.
Outline
Surf Coaching Experience
Samba has extensive experience coaching surfers of all levels over the past 10 years.
They have worked with microgroms, recreational kids, elite youth surfers, recreational adults, QS professionals, and military personnel.
Samba also coaches surfers with disabilities, including a program for soldiers with PTSD.
Their passion for surfing drives them to help others improve, finding satisfaction in seeing surfers progress and experience the joy of riding waves.
Common Surfing Challenges
Managing expectations for surf sessions is a common challenge, especially for competitive athletes who often set unrealistic goals.
Proper pop-up technique is another area where many surfers struggle.
Wave reading and timing when paddling for waves are crucial skills that need improvement.
Duck diving skills are essential but can be difficult to master.
Paddling technique is fundamental yet frequently neglected by surfers.
Understanding surf etiquette is important for maintaining harmony in the water.
Selecting appropriate boards for individual surfing styles and goals is vital for performance and enjoyment.
Importance of Surfing Direction and Goals
Identifying desired surfing paths and styles is significant for long-term progression.
Surfers should envision where they want to be in five years and choose equipment accordingly.
Surfing goals and styles can evolve with age and physical changes, necessitating periodic reassessment.
Coaching methods have changed over time, allowing for individual creativity while providing some structure.
Wave Reading and Positioning
Elite surfers like Kelly Slater can read waves before they break, highlighting the importance of wave reading skills.
Being in the water with surfers is essential for teaching effective wave reading.
Using landmarks, understanding takeoff lines, and looking across the high part of a wave helps identify pitching lips.
Many surfers tend to stick to their front side, avoiding their backhand even when better waves are available in that direction.
Duck Diving Technique
Duck diving is a critical skill that many surfers struggle with, especially those using larger boards.
Practicing in a pool or calm conditions can help develop proper duck diving technique.
Temporarily using a smaller board may be necessary to learn proper duck diving before transitioning back to a regular board.
Arm strength and proper technique are crucial for effective duck diving.
Paddling Technique and Efficiency
Paddling is a fundamental aspect of surfing that is often neglected in practice and improvement efforts.
Focusing on lengthening paddle strokes and being more graceful rather than rushing is recommended.
Proper paddling technique is important for shoulder health and longevity in the sport.
Working with specialists like Rob Case for video analysis and technique improvement can benefit surfers struggling with paddling.
Surf Etiquette and Crowded Lineups
Maintaining good surf etiquette is challenging in increasingly crowded lineups.
Respecting local surfers and being aware of one's surroundings is essential.
Educating surfers on proper etiquette can improve the overall experience in the water.
Managing expectations when surfing crowded spots and being willing to catch fewer waves or look for less crowded areas is advisable.
Board Selection and Customization
Selecting the right board for an individual's style, stance, and goals is crucial for performance and enjoyment.
Factors such as stance width, foot angle, and weight distribution affect board choice.
Video analysis can help determine the best board design for each surfer.
Changing to the right board can lead to immediate improvements in performance and enjoyment.
Fin Systems and Design
Testing new fin designs with FCS has provided insights into upcoming innovations in fin technology.
Different fin setups, including quads and twin fins, impact surfing performance significantly.
Experimenting with various fin configurations is important to find the best setup for individual surfing styles and wave conditions.
Evolving Surfing Styles and Equipment
Professional surfers like Rob Machado have evolved their surfing styles over time, transitioning from high-performance shortboarding to riding a variety of board shapes and styles.
Being open to trying different equipment and adapting surfing approaches to suit various board designs is important for growth and versatility.
Coaching Approach and Future Plans
The coaching approach focuses on helping surfers of all levels improve and enjoy their surfing more.
Accessibility through Instagram allows interested individuals to reach out for coaching.
Developing resources for wave reading and other surfing skills is planned for the future, aiming to share knowledge and experience with a broader audience.
Transcription
Michael Frampton
Welcome to the Surf Mastery Podcast. Today's guest is Samba Mann. Before that, though, just a couple of items. Former longboard pro and surf coach Julie Cox is hosting a longboard and creativity retreat in Nicaragua at the Malibu Popoyo Resort from May 12th to the 17th. Check out malibupopoyo.com for more information on that. A little reminder that the Taylor Knox and Matt Griggs Surf Coaching Week is coming up fast. It's in September, but you're going to have to book early if you want to get in on this. So just a reminder to those shortboarders who are wanting to jump on that—remember, that's happening September 12th to the 19th this year. Go to Malibu Popoyo again for more details and bookings. You can check out more at mattgriggs.com, and of course, Matt Griggs and Taylor Knox's Instagram have more info on that as well. Today's guest, Samba Mann—surfing legend and surf coach extraordinaire. Check out Samba Mann's Instagram—loads of free tips on not just surfing and surf coaching, but the stuff he's doing at the High Performance Centre on the Gold Coast of Australia for more inspiration on training, not just surfing. So that's S-A-M-B-A underscore M-A-N-N on Instagram. Samba is a classic Aussie character, and a classic Aussie song is playing in the background in the intro and outro to lead us in.
Michael Frampton
Aussie core. So you're saying you've done a lot of the camps?
Samba Mann
I've done hundreds. So I can run you through—basically, over the past 10 years, I've probably done every different type of camp, from micrograms to general recreational kids, to top-of-the-range elite kids in the country, to recreational adults, QS adults—you know, having professionals in there, then having, obviously, recreational surfers in there. I worked with the military. I still work in the military—about four or five years now. So I work with the Soldier On program, which is basically guys that have been discharged and now suffer from mental illness, which is PTSD. So I've done a lot of that—worked in the Navy, everyone, basically. And then I work with surfers with disabilities as well. So over 10 years, that's probably what I've done in that amount of time. So I feel like I've done everything. It's every little—yeah. But for me, it's not about the title of the job.
Michael Frampton
Pocket niche.
Samba Mann
I love it. You know, surfing's like—for probably both me and you—it's like we love it. It's like your passion. And you genuinely want to see others get better. And that's why you do it—it’s the satisfaction. So, Andre, who I had yesterday—I got him a wave. He caught one, and I was on it with him, laying on the board. He can't stand up. And the smile on his face was the best thing ever because it was the most pure thing you've ever seen. And he sent me a message, and he's like—this guy had a major injury five years ago. He can hardly walk, so it's very new to him. So it was a really difficult scenario, trying to help him without, you know, stepping over the line with him because he's very independent, still. He's a 23-year-old guy. And so it was a really interesting situation with him the last couple of days, but it went really well. So yeah, it was a cool moment. I was just, like, stuck there when I looked and saw that smile. It's like—yes! Good, you know? Because it's going to give him a path in life that'll be good for him. Because, you know, I work a lot with surfers that have mental illness and disabilities, and that is—it's a strange thing to say, but it's so true. Because one of the soldiers that I work with said to me, "Guys, it's like the water is healing. There's something about it—it just makes them feel good." I was just giving you, like, kind of a brief overview of the last 10 years—what's been happening. And that's kind of been—I'll turn that down there—that's kind of what has happened, I guess, for myself, being exposed to so much. I worked with Nahm Baldwin a range of times. I did a workshop—high-performance coaching, elite course—with him, with a bunch of selected coaches that were invited. So I've been fortunate enough—lucky, really—to be a part of that and to learn so much from a range of different coaches, surfers, athletes—everything. Basically, everything.
Michael Frampton
So, you've worked with so many different types of surfers. Is there anything that's ubiquitous? Like, are they all working on something different, or is there some commonality in mistakes in surfing?
Samba Mann
Definitely. I think, mentally, it's probably the biggest thing—for any surfer—managing the expectation of your sessions. You always kind of go out, and you want to get good waves and surf really well. And I think other surfers tend to really set the bar high all the time. So it's hard to meet that, and they get frustrated early. I've noticed that probably more with athletes, especially those competing. And then with the recreational side, it's always the same—it comes up every time. Pop-up, wave reading, when to time paddling for waves, duck diving—massively. No one really learns it or has been taught the skill of properly paddling on a board, how to duck dive, negotiate waves, and probably even good surf etiquette in the water. And board selection—like, breaking down boards and what they should be on. Even knowing the path of what you want to become as a surfer. The most interesting part lately for me is asking the surfer themselves: "Who do you actually want to be? What surfing pathway are you taking here?" If you could project an image of yourself five years down the track, where are you going to be? What is it? What's your image? And they're like, "Uh..." So it's a very unusual question because you've got fishes, longboards—like, a million different surfcraft. You've got to kind of know what direction you're going. I get guys that are on a fish, and they're like, "I really want to go vertical." I'm like, "Well, you're on the wrong board. You need to find an outline that's going to allow you to do that." That's a good point. I found it very interesting lately.
Michael Frampton
It's a good point. You've got to know where you're going. Yeah, you've got to know where you're headed to find out how to get there.
Samba Mann
Exactly. And I think having a moment where you kind of look at it and go, you know... I think the interesting part of that is, like, if you're young, what you look at in surfing is going to be different from when you're 30 years old or 40 years old, and your body changes. So your own surfing evolves over time and what you want out of surfing. That’s the part I find really interesting because there’s no kind of clear decision like, Okay, I'm going to go this direction or This is what I want to work on. Surfing is just, like, get out there and surf. There’s not a lot of direction or structure a lot of the time. Now, there is, but before, there was nothing. To have adult recreational surfers come in—it’s almost like they didn’t want to be coached because they weren’t sure about, Am I meant to be getting coached? It’s a strange thing. And it’s definitely evolved into being coached now, which is great because then you get a lot of surfers that come in, and you can help them move forward in their own surfing. But yeah, I think surfing with coaching, too—what I understand is that what was coached in the '90s or the '80s is totally different now. Surfing evolves over time. You've got to be careful with technique. There’s structure to it, yes, but if you teach a person just to surf a certain way, then I think everyone kind of has a slightly different way of how they interpret their own surfing. Like your fingerprint—everyone’s individual. So there’s got to be parts to how you look at that.And an interesting discussion to that—Joel Parkinson just rated John John as one of his top five most stylish surfers ever. And I know from a range of coaches back when he was younger that his arms were too close together, and he kind of got a little bit of negative feedback on his skate background of surfing. But he kind of reshaped the wheel because he did the best carves I’ve ever seen this year in Bells and Margaret River. And so Joel named him—this is Joel Parkinson—named him as one of his favorite surfers. He’s evolved surfing in his own way, and I love that because that’s surfing. It’s going to change over time again. So you've got to kind of look at it and let people have their own way of doing things. But then there has to be some structure to it in a way, which is something that I’ve been thinking about a lot.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, you don’t want to take away people’s individual style.
Samba Mann
Exactly. Yeah. And especially young kids, because maybe they could be the one to change it. Yeah, so you've got to let them have their own creativity come through—with a little bit of instruction as well.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, but it's like you said before—it’s like reading waves. Yeah. But that’s why Kelly’s so good, right? He reads the waves so well.
Samba Mann
Yeah, I’ve watched a lot of stuff to do with Kelly. There’s a clip online about a guy—he got a wave at Backdoor, and he knew as soon as the wave came in that it was the wave because there was a boil in the reef and the way the swell hit. He understands it so well. And I think that’s where you've got these really elite surfers—they can just read waves before they break. It’s such a weird thing to say, but it’s so true. I was out surfing with a bunch of surfers that I work with—Jay Thompson, an ex-WCT surfer; Mitch James, a QS surfer; and Ryan Hipwood was out there. We were all surfing this fun little beachy, and the discussion between us about where we were sitting on the bank—like, Yeah, just this little spot here, you can chip shot in, and you can see the angle of the wave. And we knew exactly where we were sitting. I still couldn’t buy a wave, though—I kept getting out of position. But you could see where it was. So, we understand that. But one of the other coaches—another coach who’s really awesome, Pete Dunn—we were talking about how if you looked at a wave and explained it to another surfer, saying, Look, that wave’s going to do this, and if they didn’t have that level of understanding, they’d look at you and go, What? Like, What are they talking about? They don’t see it the same way we do because we’ve got so much—how many years?
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Yeah.
Samba Mann
So...
Michael Frampton
Do you help intermediate adults read waves? And how do you help them?
Samba Mann
Well, it has to be something where you're in the water with them—like what we talked about before. Because awareness, right? Being aware in the surf—if you're in a crowded beach break, a lot of surfers come from Bondi. Imagine trying to read a wave out there. You just take any wave that comes your direction that you can get on—without someone on it. So I think it's a tough one because I feel like that's probably the biggest part—positioning on the peak and timing when to paddle in. Personally, it takes a long time to learn that skill—just lots of practice. But I feel like with new technology coming out, there are going to be ways to change that for sure. Generally, when I’m surfing with a crew, I’ll kind of landmark—I'll say, We're sitting here, and I'll draw out sandbanks. There are a range of different ways we look at it. When you sit out in the surf, if there are a few people out there, you'll see a takeoff line. Everyone will sit on a line. So I go, If you sit out there, then when the wave comes, you know to paddle from this point. That way, they’re not in front of the wave and copping it on the back of the head. So there are parts to that I think are really helpful. And trying to tell them to look across the high part of a wave and see if the lip’s pitching. If it is, then it’s going to close out. I had an adult just the other day—he went right on a perfect left, you know? But he didn’t even think to look left. He just wanted to go right because a lot of surfers like to stick to their front side. The backside feels uncomfortable to them—to look over that shoulder. So they’ll shy away from their strengths—and most people shy away from their weaknesses. Most people will generally go the most comfortable direction in surfing.
Michael Frampton
And you mentioned duck diving.
Samba Mann
Yeah, that’s a big one.
Michael Frampton
What’s the—It might be a hard one to verbally talk about, maybe, or...?
Samba Mann
No, I think the trickiest part with duck diving for me—I do stuff in the pool, and I feel like this is an easy skill to learn anywhere, really. But the hardest part is—you've got surfers that don’t have the paddling skill or the ability to lay on a board and balance, and then get into waves. So they need a big board, but then they can’t duck dive it. That’s the problem because you have to look at other ways to get that board under the wash or over it. And that part makes it very difficult. I think that’s where surfers really get frustrated—especially, you know, for a range of different surfers—because they can’t sink the board underwater.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. So that comes into board choice as well. Are you considering duck diving when you choose your boards?
Samba Mann
Well, I think...
Michael Frampton
Especially if you're going to surf good waves.
Samba Mann
Yeah, for sure. You know, if you live at a beach break and you've got to get out through random peaks, then you've got to be able to duck dive. Unless you live on a point break and surf that all the time, you’re going to have to learn that skill at some point. So, I’ve worked with surfers who’ve gotten a smaller board just to practice paddling and duck diving. But, I mean, in a perfect world, you'd really just work on arm strength, look at the board they’re using, work on technique, and then, over time, they'll get it. No one works on it at all. They just go out in the surf, cop a hundred waves on the head, get frustrated, and go, I need to learn my duck dive! But then they don’t do it.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. I mean, even if you're surfing every day and you're feeling like, I'm surfing good at the moment, take two days off—that's all it takes, right? And you just lose that edge. Yeah. You lose that sharpness.
Samba Mann
Exactly.
Michael Frampton
So if you're only surfing once a month, I mean—expectations—don’t set them too high.
Samba Mann
No, that’s right. You’ve got to be realistic. And I think that, like, having kids and working a lot—everyone has to deal with different levels of that, and that’s awesome. But I think you've got to find your balance and know what you want. That’s one thing I find interesting about the crew that surf and want to get better. Some are keen, but they can only get a certain amount of opportunities. So then, how do you manage that? How do you still surf well, even when you can’t get to the water a lot of the time? I mean, there are definitely ways to do that, for sure. And being fit is always going to help. Yeah. Yeah, that’s it. That’s 100%. So, yeah, I think that comes up a lot for me. And I love listening to it. I'm still learning a lot about it over time. So, yeah.
Michael Frampton
Managing expectations. So you mentioned that before—are you doing that on a surf-by-surf session as well as goal setting?
Samba Mann
Well, the interesting part about it, right, is that in any group of surfers, generally, when they get in that room and watch themselves surf, they just tear shreds off themselves. So I don’t know what their expectation is before they get in that room. It’s all very joking, which is fine—it’s classic, we all have a laugh. But then, some have unusual movements. I don’t actually want to say that. I mean, they have their own style, right? I had one guy say, I don’t really like how my arm moves that way. Can I change that? And I’m like, Well, you can polish it up a little, but you are going to be your own surfer—like your own fingerprint. You’re going to be an individual. So you can’t just go, Hey, I want to surf like Joel. I’m going to surf like him. So, when I talk about expectations, you can’t expect to completely change someone's style in surfing. I feel like that part is quite hard. So when someone comes in and sees their style a certain way, they’re like, Well, how can I change that movement? You can work on areas and refine stuff, but you can’t change it completely.
Michael Frampton
Okay, so how does that work then? So, you’ve got—let’s take, I don’t know, the top 100 surfers of all time. Yeah. And they’ve all got their own individual style.
Samba Mann
Yes.
Michael Frampton
All right. But what do they all have in common?
Samba Mann
Are we talking about current surfers now?
Michael Frampton
It’s an open-ended question.
Samba Mann
So, something that I break down—and that I try to tell basically everyone I work with—is that no two people surf exactly the same. You look at the way John John surfs with his arms. You look at Michael February—he's quite a popular surfer now. Then you've got Mick Fanning, who has that classic, really great style. And then you’ve got guys like Kelly, who’s reshaped the world of surfing so many times over the years. Then there’s Joel Parkinson—amazing stylish surfer—and Ethan Ewing. So, I feel like there’s a common area where most surfers want to have a good style—something that people want to watch. But then there are also unique styles. You know, if you look at Italo’s style—what do you think about it?
Michael Frampton
It’s fast.
Samba Mann
Yeah, but it’s erratic in a way.
Michael Frampton
Dynamic—very erratic.
Samba Mann
Exactly! It's like Medina. And we talk about this—other coaches, like Linton, a coach I work with a lot. He's an amazing coach. We were talking about how Medina bounces in between his turns. Like, he taps his foot and does a little bounce. So you’re like, Flow being the criteria… I don’t know about that. I find it a little unusual—it’s his own way of frothing out to hit the section. He kind of bounces. I can show you how he does it. Whereas Joel would just hold and cruise and keep that rail engaged. I love Medina’s approach to surfing—it’s amazing. But if you look at a goofy-footer like him, do you think about his carves? You don’t generally think about that. But you think about Mick, and you think, How good are his carves? Same with John John and Jordy—but they can do everything else too. So there’s so much going on with surfing now, and I find it all very interesting. But then it’s like—what direction are you going to take it? Everyone has a different way of doing things. And I feel like every person definitely does. They get up, go high on a wave, and get speed. And there’s all this talk about taking off and going down—doing a big bottom turn. That is the craziest thing I’ve ever heard. Every surfer I coach talks about guys doing bottom turns—taking off, going down the wave, and then bottom turning. But that’s probably one of the things that comes up the most—like, Take off, go down, big bottom turn. It’s actually the very opposite of that. You take off, look across, get your speed, and go high. Then you can drop down, and that leads into different parts of bottom turns. That’s evolved as well. It’s not about a big, deep, hand-touch bottom turn anymore. You look at Ethan and Griffin—they do a quick sort of rotation, and their back arm swings behind them. They don’t even touch the waves. So, it’s a mid-bottom turn. It’s a different variety of that. This has evolved over time, right? So, this is another thing that’s come into surfing. I mean, I study it because I’m obsessed with it. I watch everything. I watch all the movies. One of my friends said to me when I was younger, You’re obsessed. You watch everything. And I’m like, Yeah, I do. I love it. You know, this is what I love. I find it fascinating to watch all of it—where people stand on boards, how they move. And that’s what I find fascinating about it all. Because it’s not just one way. There are parts that are your structure and foundation—yes. But then, there are a lot of ways to skin a cat.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Interesting.
Samba Mann
Yeah.
Michael Frampton
I guess it depends on the waves and the way you want to surf too, doesn’t it?
Samba Mann
Yes.
Michael Frampton
Like, yeah.
Samba Mann
That's what I mean about identifying that. Because, like, how many boards are there now? And how many ways are there to surf? Because you've got, you know, Chipper Wilson—an amazing surfer. I've got a clip of him on a single fin board, and he tucks his knee and does a very classic old-school move. Then he does a shove-it down the line—it's like everything. Craig Anderson is the perfect example of that. Watch his last edit—the guy does huge airs, and he's riding a single fin, like Jerry Lopez. These guys can do everything. So, what direction are you going in?
Michael Frampton
Yeah. But what is it that's ubiquitous to all of that? Yeah. It's reading the waves, isn't it?
Samba Mann
For sure. I think the most important thing as a surfer, if you want to get enjoyment out of it, is definitely being able to go to a beach and understand it. You've got to know where to paddle out, which waves to catch, and have good surf etiquette so you're not frustrating people in the lineup. Then, you need to understand how to paddle into a wave, get your speed, and approach any turns with the right foot placement.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Okay. So, paddling into the wave and getting speed—that's huge. So, you're saying a lot of people think they need to just drop to the bottom straight away?
Samba Mann
Everyone—almost every other person I've coached. Like I said, I've done a lot of camps at the High Performance Center over the years, and it's always the same. They always look down, go to the bottom of the wave, and then try to set up for their bottom turn. But by then, the wave is generally gone.
Even with the guy I coached a couple of days ago, I just said, Look, when you're paddling, look across the wave. I've got a clip of Kolohe doing exactly that. When he's paddling in, his chin is down on the board, and he's leaning forward to accelerate. Then he looks across the wave and assesses it—he already knows what it's going to do. He knows where he needs to get to on that wave and how he's going to approach it.
But for the general surfer, I just say, Look across the wave. Get your speed first, because if you don’t have speed, then what?
Michael Frampton
Having that approach is going to change the way you look at a wave as well. Because if you're paddling into the wave with the intention of just doing a bottom turn straight away, you're more likely to paddle in on the shoulder. Whereas, if you're looking to get that quick high line, you're more likely to take off deeper and get that speed. Then you're approaching the shoulder of the wave with speed anyway, rather than just popping up there.
Samba Mann
Yeah, it's been a very effective tool. I'd say looking is the first step—just identifying where you're trying to get to. And I know it works straight away—it's an instant thing. So, that is just a big step in itself.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Yep. So, high line speed?
Samba Mann
For sure.
Michael Frampton
First thing you do on a wave?
Samba Mann
I feel like, for that level of surfer, if they're dropping down, looking straight to the bottom of the wave, and popping up at the bottom, then yeah—they really need to work on angling into the wave. I think angle is something we talk about a lot—don’t just point your nose straight down the wave. Just a little bit of angle helps you draw your line.
And if your pop-up is slow and you're going straight down the wave, it's actually harder to do because of all that gravity pulling you down. So, angling across your line gives you more time to pop up, and you’re going to make the wave. That is always the better way to go.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. And you kind of get on your rail a bit more straight away as well.
Samba Mann
Yeah. And pop-ups—so, you know, everyone does them differently. There’s a great clip on YouTube that breaks down pop-ups in the wave pool. It’s in slow motion, showing every different top-level surfer, and they all pop up differently. We watch that a lot—it's a good one to look at.
Michael Frampton
Well, they probably pop up differently on different waves too.
Samba Mann
Yeah. And body types, flexibility—all of that is going to change the way you pop up on a wave.
Michael Frampton
A lot of surfers put their back foot first, right? Or even at the same time as the front foot?
Samba Mann
For sure. Yeah. And how they twist their hips, their hip flexibility, where they put their hands—it all plays a role. The adjustment of actual hand position is an interesting one too.
Michael Frampton
Your hand position is big.
Samba Mann
Well, if you look at guys taking off at Pipe, look at where their hands are on the board. We were watching this the other day, and I was blown away. At Jaws, with their massive boards, they take off with both feet on one side of the stringer to get the rail engaged—because the boards are so big.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. So they don’t stand on the stringer?
Samba Mann
Yeah. It's amazing. I don’t even know how they do it. But I’m like, Much respect—because that is so scary.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Yeah. And you can’t have your hands on the rail of the board.
Samba Mann
Yeah.
Samba Mann
You don't hold the rails.
Michael Frampton
No. That's for sure. It slows you down. And—
Samba Mann
I don't mean to, and I'm not saying anything negative about it, but I have seen some surf schools teaching that. Like in the past—I don't know about now—but I've got clips proving and showing how I've got my hand on the board and that my hands angle when I'm going right and left. They actually change position a little bit, you know. And if I'm going to drop in and grab rail into a barrel on my backhand, how I put my hands in that is, you know, it does tend to adapt to what's happening in that situation.
Michael Frampton
A lot of people just don't have the wrist flexibility to do that.
Samba Mann
Yeah, that's a good way of looking at it.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Like they just—no, that hurts. Yeah. I have to put my hands on the side. Yeah. It's like, all right, well, it's going to slow you down. Yeah. You either work on that outside of the water or... Exactly. Deal with it. That's an expectation they have to manage. Yeah. And—
Samba Mann
I think the thing too is like, if you really want to accelerate a process up and you can't get in the water, then how are you going to do it? You have to do it on land. You know, so there's got to be—there's a million different ways. And I've noticed that you can help with the process, but you've got to be willing to put the time in if you want to get that reward out of it. So, yeah.
Michael Frampton
You do a lot of skateboarding stuff?
Samba Mann
I mean, I've done a fair bit of skating stuff over time. I think it all helps, you know, balancing. We do stuff with indoor boards—really good. Hand-eye coordination, balancing. I work a lot on position on the land and how to tuck your knee. I feel like that's really important. Your—yeah, for sure.
Michael Frampton
Posture. Your awareness. Posture.
Samba Mann
And then being able to do it on land. And even if you've got to look at yourself in a mirror and kind of do that stuff, it's all going to help. It is all going to help.
Michael Frampton
So what's new in your coaching realm?
Samba Mann
So I guess—I think I talked about last time—I was going to dig deep on a website. And the unfortunate reality of having three kids is that you don't get much time to do stuff. Well, that shouldn't be an excuse, but I've really focused more on Instagram just to try and get it out there because I like to do it, and I'm trying to just put stuff on there that is helping surfers. I'm definitely going that direction with my social media. And then I'm working on—I've been working with Matty Formsen for a while. He's become a very good friend of mine. And we went to Bali, and we filmed a lot around there. We pushed the boundaries with his surfing. And so, using a fusion camera and filming, and we're moving towards putting a documentary out on that pretty soon. So that's going to be really cool. To talk about our story, when we met for the first time about five years ago, and then going on to win the world title for being visually impaired. And then he's won it a couple of times now in a row. And he's won every event, and he's an amazing guy. And just how I've cued him through his waves. I'm basically like—I read the waves for him and surf his heats. And it's been a crazy adventure, but it's been awesome. So we're going to push it further. And the finishing shot in the documentary is going to be pretty nuts. It's going to be quite dangerous, but we're going to—we've talked about how we're going to get it. But I've been working with him on a jet ski, which is something that I really want to move towards—is in-water coaching, being on the waves with a surfer.
Michael Frampton
And being on the wave with a surfer.
Samba Mann
Yeah, so I did a couple of—we went to a remote beach where we worked. And I can show you the footage where I'm cuing him through the wave as he's surfing along, and he can hear me perfectly. And so he gets to hear how I describe the wave. And it's interesting. And we've got to come up with better verbal cues, because like—and having just a quick, you know, one-word way to look at things. And we talked about that. I generally just scream and yell and, you know, typical surf, you know, slack, I guess. But it's been great. He loved it. It was one of the best sessions ever on that day of being on a ski and just taking the paddling out of it and just straight into waves. So you're just surfing all the time. So it's actually quite exhausting because you're not paddling; you're surfing waves. So it accelerates the process massively by just getting a lot more waves and just—you're on the wave surfing more. Yeah.
Michael Frampton
That sounds rad. I want to do it.
Samba Mann
Yeah, I'd love to take you. The option's there, you know. When I get this ski, I'll definitely take you out there for a session. I think you'll really enjoy it because it takes the peak positioning out of it, and you're on the spot every time.
Michael Frampton
Even just having someone like a way better surfer reading the wave, giving commentary, must slow things down a lot for people too.
Samba Mann
Well, the awareness is instant because I'm right there. And I know, like—you know, it's not a perfect way to do things, but I can guarantee it is accelerating the process massively because you can get... When I was doing Step Oster Kursi, when he lived here, we did it all the time, you know. The guy is like 20 years old, and I was always embarrassed because I couldn't do as many—like maybe not even make one. But it was really cool because you get—you do like a 15-minute block, and he was that quick on a ski, you would have 10 waves in like 10 minutes. You're like, okay, just give me two seconds here. Like, I need to get my breath back. But that was, you know, that was like a long time ago now, eight years ago. And it's a really great way to improve, 100%.
Michael Frampton
Things. And then the wave pools change the game too.
Samba Mann
Yeah, no doubt. And that's probably what Kursi just put out. An editor, Sierra Kerr, his daughter, and she's doing full rotations. Like, she's basically changing women's surfing just like that. And it's gonna... This is... That wave pool is gonna accelerate the process like you've never seen before.
Michael Frampton
So the Jitski step offs.
Samba Mann
Because, you know, when you're sitting there surfing, like, damn it, I wish you could have got to that peak over there. Well, you're on that peak every time. And it's obviously something you've got to be away from everyone to do it because I don't like doing that around other surfers, obviously. But it is a great tool and a lot of fun when there's a beach with no one around and you're getting so many waves. It really is a great way to improve.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. And so you mentioned another thing before is etiquette.
Samba Mann
Yes. Yeah, this is a very great one, this one.
Michael Frampton
Let's dive in. Etiquette. Like, what's the worst part of surf etiquette at the moment? Well...
Samba Mann
The other day when I described that session where I was with a bunch of the coaches that I work with, you know, and they've got ex-pro surfers. And there's one guy and he's just, like, paddling for every wave and pretty aggressively too and in front of people. And I sort of looked at one of the guys who's a local. I'm like, do you know who, like, this guy is here? And he goes, no. And so you pick it out straight away. And it's like, I get it, people want to catch waves. But there's got to be a certain point where you kind of look around and go, it's not just me catching waves. There's a lot of other people that want to catch a wave. Yeah. So you can't be greedy like that, you know. So living on the Gold Coast for 20 years, I got caught up with that. And then I realized, I'm like, wait a minute, this is not even who I am. This is not surfing at all. So, you know, you start calling people into waves. It's actually quite nice because, you know, it's good to see other people enjoy that because that's what everyone's out there to do. But it's definitely lost it over the years. It's getting worse and worse.
Michael Frampton
Yeah.
Michael Frampton
It's so busy, right?
Samba Mann
I think it should be educated more, you know, because it's going to make everything better for everyone in the surf. And what I relate it to is like when Snap is good and the waves are perfect, and it's, you know, it looks very like, I'm out there, it's easy to get out. But when the wave's barreling and hollow like that, it's like being a snowboarder for the first time and going down the Black Diamond Run, you know, you don't just jump on it. You got to build up to that. And I think that's where they need to start to look when you have surfers that are a little bit lower level. They don't need a sucky wave like that. They're not going to get chewed. And I'm not saying that they shouldn't be out there, but maybe they need to work towards it.
Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Okay. So when it is like that, and there are 200 people out there, most of them aren't even surfing. They're just getting over the falls.
Samba Mann
Yeah. It's dangerous. Yeah. It's really dangerous. Yeah. And you see it a lot, you know, and it's hard, I think, to manage that. Because the airport's right there and everyone just gets straight out there. But I know local guys that have been there forever, and they're not a pro, but everyone knows who everyone is. And those guys have got an hour after work to have their surf, and that's their option. So, I mean, what are they supposed to do? So it's a very difficult thing to manage. But I think internationals coming there should be a bit aware of, like, wait a minute, this is a different country. You know, if I went somewhere to another surf spot, I wouldn't paddle around like that. You know, I would just be like, hey, and try to be respectful. But that's what I got taught at a young age. So I think that needs... It's a discussion that needs to be talked about. People need to respect those local areas and then kind of think, well, you know, it's a better way to be respectful and nice to others. And then that way you're going to get respect more. Yeah.
Michael Frampton
And get better waves. Yes. Yeah.
Samba Mann
But I think more wave pools hopefully helps with that. And then we've got artificial reefs that they're building those too.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, spread everyone out a little bit. Yeah. Just, yeah, go for a drive.
Samba Mann
Well, a question to you, how fast do you think surfing's growing? It's the most rapid rate ever right now. It is. I mean, the human population, everything else, sharks in the mix. What do you do?
Michael Frampton
There's not much you can do. Yeah. I mean, if you're willing to just go around the corner though, you can get waves yourself. Yeah. That's what I always do. Yeah. I would sacrifice a lesser wave for less people.
Samba Mann
Exactly where I'm at right now too. Because surfing is where I try to get peace.
You know, you sit out there and just be with your thoughts. I surf by myself a lot. I love surfing by myself. And so I kind of lost that being up there. But yeah, I'll generally... I'll put a lot of time into looking. I'll get up early and look and find sandbanks. I'll still get waves a lot. Actually, yesterday I got waves and it was only three guys out, you know. And so it's still there. You just got to be keen to look for it and put the time in.
Michael Frampton
Well, etiquette comes down to managing expectations a lot as well, I think. Like, if there's 200 people at Snapper and you can't expect to go out there and catch 20 waves in an hour. Yeah. Go out and get two. Yeah.
Samba Mann
That's-
Michael Frampton
Right. Paddle around, just get a, spend the first 10 minutes just feeling it out. Who's catching these ones? Well, or even just sit there for 10 minutes and you might see, no one's sitting there catching those ones. I'm going to go and sit there and get a couple.
Yeah. I do that in Malibu all the time. Like, just take a different board out at Malibu and just catch the ones that no one else is catching. Or if there's the odd rogue set every now and then, I'm going to sit wider on a bigger board. Or you just, you can always, that's part of etiquette too.
For sure. Reading the lineup and reading people, isn't it? Yes.
Samba Mann
Yeah. I think you get some pretty smooth operations. So if I've seen them, you know, and I remember when we were on the boat trip in the Ments, Sea Bass was like, he, a lot of the time he'd just catch a thousand waves. Like, he would never sit out the back. He'd just be on another one and another one. He'd be on all those inside ones. He, like, you just see fins and boards flying everywhere, you know, it's like, okay. And he's just like, you know, because you're catching so many waves, you're surfing all the time. And if you're waiting for a set for half an hour and then you fall off, there's 30 minutes gone. So, I mean, everyone can't do that, obviously, but that's an interesting way of looking at it, right?
Michael Frampton
Well, it's just looking for those opportunities. Because yeah, it's so easy to go out there and just try and catch every wave that everyone else is catching. Yeah.
Samba Mann
Yeah.
Michael Frampton
But there's little ones on the inside that no one's catching, or weird sets that are breaking wide that no one's looking at. Or you can do that as well. Have your plan. But yeah, if you want to go, I mean, if you go out there and expect to catch 20 waves in a crowded lineup and that's your expectation, then you're going to be a dick. Yeah. You're going to be an asshole in the water. Well, if you go out there, I'm just going to get two. I've got an hour, I'm going to get, just try and get two. Then you're going to be choosy, you're going to be nice, you're not going to drop in. You're going to just wait for your opportunities.
Samba Mann
I think that's awesome to be able to look at it like that. But others don't even understand that. They just go out and I'm going to just take everything I can and that's every session. And I'm not going to say anyone, but you see it and you're like, that's pretty greedy. Like, I mean, if everyone was like that, you know, where are we heading to here? This is not good. A lot I know.
Michael Frampton
People are like that.
Samba Mann
I don't want to be like that.
Michael Frampton
You have to deal with that in the water. That's part of it too, is like dealing with that surfer. Yeah. Because that surfer is always going to be there.
Samba Mann
Yeah. Yeah, that's true.
Michael Frampton
And if you're the one that's, you've finally, you've been out there for half an hour and you're finally on a set wave and then some intermediates drop and then on you on a soft top, what do you do? Well...
Samba Mann
I heard in the Maldives, it's getting pretty full over there. I've heard reports and I mean, even when we're in the Ments again, we had crew that were pretty very up the inside and level wasn't very high. So it's a hard one, you know, I guess trying to manage that. There's no real structure to it. And I feel like it's just exploding over time. There's more and more surfers, like how do you manage it in a wave pool? I mean, there's 30 in a session at that Urban Surf, I'm pretty sure. I'd love to know. I mean, imagine if you had one guy just before you, and he fell off every time, then would it be like, would he be in your way every time? Like, how does that work? Or is it good etiquette? Because I know that wave pool looks amazing and I'm sure they've got it all sorted. But I'd love them to just talk about etiquette and go, this is, you know, where are you going to be? If you're bad at etiquette, you're out of here.
Michael Frampton
That's a good point. Like, that's probably because they can control it. Exactly. It's manageable.
Samba Mann
Here we go. We're onto something here.
Michael Frampton
It's manageable. Because yeah, and a lineup is so random and chaotic.
Samba Mann
There's no policing that lineup.
Michael Frampton
You can't, you just can't.
Samba Mann
And the Ments are even worse. There's just nothing. And I've heard very bad stories of people having pretty aggressive fights and, you know, all sorts of stuff going on over there. And that, like, it's dangerous.
So I think that, yeah, they've really got to look at that and start to think, well, how can we better manage this? I'm surprised I haven't, to be honest.
Michael Frampton
Because, you know, that's serious. If it's double overhead and it's a shallow reef and someone drops in, it's like...
Samba Mann
It's dangerous.
Michael Frampton
Now I've got to deal with that. Yeah. You just get a little nick on your knee and it turns into a welt. And it's like, just because some dude dropped in on you. Yeah. Because they didn't look. Yeah. You know, like...
Samba Mann
Yeah. I mean, do you walk across the road without looking? No. No, exactly.
Michael Frampton
But surfers are so passive aggressive. Yeah, that's...
Samba Mann
Right. It's one of those things, isn't it?
Yeah. It's like you can have a nice guy and then they get out in the water and they just put this whole different... You—yeah, I've got a mate, he's been living up here for a while and at the Goldie, and it's like it's getting to him.
Michael Frampton
I know. Surfing brings out the worst in people sometimes.
Samba Mann
It's like there's actually a state of surfers now because they're so frustrated over a long period of time that they become more aggressive. So it probably affects their day-to-day life.
Yeah, probably like, you know.
Michael Frampton
It does. It's... That affects—that's going to affect the way you surf too, right?
Samba Mann
Exactly. Exactly.
Well, you're not surfing in a good state of mind, you'd think.
Michael Frampton
And that comes down to mindset, what you were saying before. Exactly.
Samba Mann
Mindset is so powerful.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. How are you managing that with those—with these adult intermediates?
Samba Mann
Well, it's like a lot is actually working out what you're trying to get out of your own surfing, what's realistic. And then trying to look at the mental side of things as well.
So other surfers will go out, like you said, we're talking about two-way. Some guys get one wave in a session or two waves and that's their surf. Other guys get 40.
So if that 40-wave surfer paddles out and gets 10, he's going to come in frustrated, guaranteed. Where the two-wave surfer, well, he might get zero waves, which does happen too, and he comes in frustrated.
So being in crowded lineups, like we talked about, having a strategy, then that's when you've got to manage expectations right there and then go, hey, look, there's a lot of people out today. You know, it is a local crowd. You're going to have to get ones off the side. You're probably not going to get as many waves.
So we try to find other spots. So that, I think that part from the get-go is going to help. You're...
Michael Frampton
Coaching them to manage expectations before they even paddle out. Yeah.
Like you might even see them over-frothing. Like, well, hold on...
Samba Mann
Tell them, I go, look, this is a local crowd and you've got to respect it. You know, don't go out and just rape and pillage, you know, because that's what surfers... I've seen guys out there doing that, mate.
Like, I read it in an article, and you can't—you're not going to build any kind of friendships in any location like that. But then, you know, local surfers have to be aware too that they're going to go to other beaches.
So they've got to... It's... There's got to be a balance somewhere along the lines.
Michael Frampton
Share and share alike. Well...
Samba Mann
It's not going to hurt, right? If everyone shares more, we're going to be living in a better world, that's for sure.
Yeah. But yeah, like expectation is a lot of different parts of like what's realistic with changing in their own surfing and, you know, where they can actually get to. And it's all been, you know, really positive and that's great. And I think board is a massive, you know, game changer for surfers is the way they stand. There's lots of narrower stances and wider stances and different foot angles. There's heaps of that.
So then you've got to find the right board to surf. Like Luke Egan he was a narrow stance surfer. He was.
And then you've got other surfers that stand like Adrian Asuza, where his foot angles out, you know. So you've got to look at how you weigh on a board. Other surfers stand on their back foot more and center on the back. Others lean over the front.
So then you've got to get the right board that fits their surfing. You know, the perfect shoe because it's true. It's actually there now, and you can get it. And the thing is that other surfers don't understand what they need. And I feel like that's where I've learned. I've learned a lot about equipment over time, and I've obsessed about that too, obviously. But I feel like I can steer them in a really good direction.
Michael Frampton
So, okay. So in terms of like, let's say, let's take your stance width, for example. Yes. Is that going to determine where your wide point is?
Samba Mann
For sure. Like, the thing I think we talked about last time is like foot position on a board, where surfers tend to stand on the center line and balance with both feet and they're like flying down the wave. And it's a very low intermediate thing and they can't maneuver. And they're like, I keep catching my front rail. I'm like, it's because you're halfway up the board. You've got to shuffle back.
So I mean that—that's a really interesting thing. And so I've got guys that are like, got quite a wide stance. It's a good stance, but they've got no nose out in front of them. And they're trying to do all these turns. I had a guy just the other week, and I'm like, look, and I compare a clip with one of the pros. I'm like, look how much nose he's got compared to you. You've got a good stance. You're standing in the grip. This is good. We're going to change it. You're getting a bit more rail in front of that front foot.
And then they start making every maneuver and they don't even understand it. Like, wow, I just... I can actually do all that. That's just purely because they need a longer board, where other guys that are very narrow, which is another stance, and they stand on the tail of the board and they can't get speed.
So then they're going to go to those actual really, like, shorter boards. Like the, you know, you've got those Cymatics and the Firewires and you've got those really like Black Box 3s, the JSs. They're going to go to those.
So it's really interesting. That part I love because I feel like you put them on the right board. They're like, wow, this... I didn't know I could do this. It's... Exactly.
Michael Frampton
Easier to change someone's board than it is their stance.
Samba Mann
And a lot of... I hear a lot about it. Like, you're going to have to change.
Well, changing your stance is not easy if you've been doing it for 20 years. It's like, hey, do you want to just work on your walk?
You know, because you're walking with—when you're just in your day to day—we're just going to change this a little bit. You're like, that's going to be tough. Think about that every day. Okay, keep your foot, you know, whatever you got to do. It's very difficult. Change your shoes. Exactly. That's right.
So that part's been awesome. I really enjoy that.
So gone are the days like, hey, your board's the same height as you, that's the board you're going to ride. No way.
Michael Frampton
It's a good point. Yeah.
So can we break that down more? Like, is it the... Would the wide point, would you want—ideally—would you want the wide point like where their front foot is? Yes.
Samba Mann
100%. Yeah. Now with a narrow stance, you want to get that grip to match with their back foot.
So if they've got a narrow stance, you've got to get them to go to a board that is shorter where their feet are going to fit right there. Boom, they're on it, you know, and that's something that works. And so then, yep, and then that's where weight comes in, which gets even more interesting.
Michael Frampton
Instantly. Or even a board that has the wide point behind center.
Yeah.
Samba Mann
Surfers, and I say this a lot, tend to lean back onto their back hip or their, you know, if they're a natural, onto their right hip, and they stand heavy on their back foot, right? So if you get a really tail-rockered board with a thinner tail, it's not going to work for them.
So they need a wider—not a wide like a fish outline—but something where they've got a flatter tail rocker and a different sort of tail width. So there's that to it, you know. And guys that surf off their front foot and they're really forward like that, then you've got to look at that design there for themselves as well.
So that's what's interesting about that, you know. And then if you go to like foot angle on a board, like Joel surfs with his toes just basically across the stringer, whereas Mick's a little bit further across, and then others are even further across again.
So then foot position is like, it's an interesting one. So body types, flexibility, and then how you learn to surf all comes into play.
So you've got to figure out where you're going to fit in that. And then what you're trying to get to as a surfer.
And then when you move, you put yourself on the board that's going to take you there with your narrow or wider stance, and then you start to move in the right direction you should be.
Michael Frampton
So yeah, some video analysis would help with board choice.
Samba Mann
Straight away. That part I feel is just instant. You can see it. And I think board's the easiest one to change, and most satisfaction comes from that, because when you get put on a board and you love it, you're like, this is just the best thing ever. And if other surfers, they're on a board and they're like, yeah, I've been riding for a... I'm like, well, why are you stuck on this board if you don't really like it? That's just another day wasted where you could be on the board—the best board—you've ever ridden. But they'll just kind of grind it out. And it's like, well, let's try and work on that and get you on something you love, because that's what every surfer wants to do.
Yeah. It's very easy to do that, actually. It is nowadays. But I just think that with surf shops, it's hard for... I don't know, there's some really good guys out there at the moment that are helping people with boards, but I feel like it's another gray area.
You know, there's some great social media platforms where there's a guy—what's the... he does that, the board breakdowns in America. He's just amazing.
Michael Frampton
Not Benny's Boardroom?
No.
Samba Mann
No, what's it... It's a... I've been watching and it's called... he does like a full breakdown. He's like a... he's sitting natural foot. He looks like Kelly Slater almost on a board. Okay, it's Surfing...
Michael Frampton
No, I'm not sure who that is.
Samba Mann
Anyway, I'll have to find that. He's amazing at his breakdowns. He knows everything about boards, and he does reports on every board, and everyone watches it and it's really good. And that one I feel is... I love that because he talks about the boards honestly.
Yeah. Who's... I'm going to find him for you right now.
Michael Frampton
This guy?
Samba Mann
Yeah, he's my... yeah, I'm surprised you haven't heard him.
Michael Frampton
Do it. I probably have. I haven't been watching him, obviously. Otherwise I would. Is it Michael?
Samba Mann
What is it? Surfing Show. This guy, the best ever. Noel, he's just amazing. He breaks down every board, but his technique is amazing though. Surfing Show. It's almost unfair.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, I got him. Surf underscore in underscore show.
Samba Mann
Love it. Absolutely love his breakdown. Probably the best out there, I'm going to say. Cool.
Fins are... I mean, that's the part I've got to watch.
I've got to watch. I've got to watch. I've got to watch. I've got to watch. Why? It's interesting, right? And there's just more and more new fins coming into play. And I did a day with FCS testing fins with Hippo, and they came out... they were doing work on a new design and something you've never, ever seen before. And they haven't released it yet. And I rode it and I remember we were on the beach looking at them with Richie Lovett, you know, and they had 200 different types of flex and different glass and what they went through to get this fin. And I rode it, and I rode a different variation of it, and it was amazing. And they haven't released it so I can't say much about it, but I was like, it looks so unique.
Michael Frampton
What's unique about it? The material?
Samba Mann
How it looks.
Michael Frampton
The shape of it too?
Samba Mann
Yeah, the shape of it. Do you remember the H2s back in the day?
Yeah. The silver ones. I used to love those fins. It's like that, but much different. But I'll let them release that. Very space-aged.
Michael Frampton
One. More space-aged.
Samba Mann
You'd look at it and go, whoa, that's different. But they work.
Michael Frampton
Okay.
Samba Mann
So that was pretty cool. I remember looking at Hippo's face. He's just sort of looking at them going, really?
Like he's sort of shaking his head. But man, he rode them. He came in, he's like, whoa, that one worked quite good.
So anyway, it'd be good to get his feedback. Might be different than mine. It worked.
Michael Frampton
Okay. So FCS, look out for that.
Yeah. Yeah. It was really cool. This is an exclusive here.
Yeah. Yeah.
Samba Mann
This was, yeah, it was probably six months or so ago now. But the guy running the testing was, you know, the amount of fins and different flex and materials he had and what the testing they'd done was unbelievable.
Yeah. And it was like, try this when you change different stiff side fins into a different back fin with more flex.
And then this one combo at the end, I remember, and I was like, wow, it works so good. It was, yeah, kind of blew me away.
Michael Frampton
What about asymmetry? Have you gone down that route?
No.
Samba Mann
I would for sure. Because he does, he loves riding it. A lot of guys ride them. I think it's... there's so much stuff out there, you know?
Yeah, for sure. If it works for you and you're having fun, then you're going to do it, right?
Michael Frampton
Do you ride quads?
Samba Mann
Yeah. I ride quads a lot. I still ride them now. I like the... generally when you pump and get speed, the pickup when you get speed is great, really fast. And I like the release, but that's like, depending on the fins, if you've got bigger or smaller back fins. But drawing lines, they do tend to hold into lines.
You know, if you're trying to bottom turn to go up the face, you might want to track going up a little bit. So that's where it can get a little tricky. But I think when you generate speed, the way it holds onto the face of the waves, it sort of has like that feel of it grabbing into the water.
Michael Frampton
What about fishes? Have you ridden fish like a keel fin fish much?
Samba Mann
No, actually. I rode MR retro, which was like the twin fin with a V in the tail.
Yeah. And that one worked. You had to surf on the front foot and I remember chatting MR about it and how you had to ride. And that was really unique.
You know, if you bottom turn your back end really hard, you slide out if you didn't hold your edge in or your rail.
And then we rode those carbon wrap, the ones that you have like the... that kind of similar rail design, but you could have a trailing back fin. But I rode in a thruster out of the MR camp that we did together, and it went... he looked at me, he goes, I didn't know—they're not meant for having a thruster set in them. And it worked really good.
So even he was kind of shocked about that. So it worked good for me.
Yeah. Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Cause I never used to like quads. I couldn't even ride them.
And then I spent some time on a... like a real retro fish board, keel fin fish. And once I learned how to ride the twin—that twin fin, keel fin fish—I can ride quads now. I love them.
Yeah.
Samba Mann
Well, that's... it's not a bad thing to ride them, you know. Like, they're fun. Like, boards represent different things. Like, put that hat on when you ride it.
You know, if you're going to ride a single fin, then try and surf like how a single fin would be ridden. And a twin fin. And that's the thing with twin fins now is like, guys are pretty high performance on it, but don't be afraid to kind of fit that mold because I think that's a good way to go.
Michael Frampton
We were talking earlier about how surfers have evolved, right? Like Machado—use Machado as an example.
Yeah.
Like, he used... was one of the best shortboards, right?
Yep. And how... What were we saying before?
Like, he's just... nowadays he's surfing all sorts of weird boards.
Yeah.
Samba Mann
He's a shaper. He's very, you know... like, he's like a... how would you say it? He's just like an amazing surfer in every respect. And now he's just like that.
So stylish and his surfing really suits it. You know, he's just so flowy. And even back in the earlier nineties when he was doing stuff, he could do everything and I just couldn't get enough of it. But yeah, he definitely rides big longboards and fishes and, you know, Asher Pacey comes to mind when he was like that—high performance in like, he can do everything on it. He rides those Album surfboards now and it's just amazing at the different lines. But then he'll still bust the fins out and do like a double 360.
Like, he's like a wizard. That's the best way to describe it. They're both wizards on a surfboard. They've got long hair and everything like that. I reckon that's the best way to sum them up.
Michael Frampton
Wizards for sure.
Samba Mann
They definitely look the part, you know. I love...
Michael Frampton
It.
Yeah. This website you were mentioning...
Yeah. How's it looking?
Well...
Samba Mann
I think now I'm focusing mainly on... it'll just be a sort of like a Linktree attachment and Instagram, but anyone can reach me through there. Just like in a direct message, you know, that's probably the best way with my, you know, Samberman on Instagram. And, you know, a guy just reached out from Italy.
Like we talked about, he was a disabled surfer, a really awesome guy, and he had a, you know, pretty new injury, and I got him in the water for the first time in five years. So that was a really cool moment just to get him back in the water.
So I encourage anyone to reach out, you know. I'm a pretty approachable guy just to help. You don't have to be, you know, the best surfer in the world. It doesn't matter, you know, I don't care. It's just as long as you want to get better out of your surf—more out of your surfing—is kind of the main thing. But I'm going to... I really want to move in a direction with that over time with how I can talk about the stuff we were saying about reading waves and using different approaches to that.
So that's definitely going to be something that I'm planning towards. Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Well, thank you for your time, man.
Samba Mann
No worries, mate. Awesome to hang. Take you on the skate next time we get the opportunity.
For the passionate surfer—whether you're a weekend warrior, a surf dad, or an older surfer—this podcast is all about better surfing and deeper stoke. With expert surf coaching, surf training, and surfing tips, we’ll help you catch more waves, refine your paddling technique, and perfect your pop up on a surfboard. From surf workouts to handling wipeouts, chasing bigger waves, and mastering surf technique, we’re here to make sure you not only improve but truly enjoy surfing more—so you can get more out of every session and become a wiser surfer. Go from Beginner or intermediate Surfer to advanced.