067: The Physics & Neuroscience of Surfing w Clayton Nienaber
Are you surfing harder but still missing the magic of true speed, flow, and control on a wave?
In this mind-expanding episode, surf coach Clayton Nienaber breaks down how wave energy, body movement, and even neuroscience play a far bigger role in your surfing than any surfboard ever could. Whether you’re stuck on the shoulder, flailing mid-face, or blaming your board, Clayton’s insights will shift the way you think about progression forever.
Learn how to move with the wave using principles from martial arts, music, and physics.
Discover the “freeze-flight-flow” model that reveals your current surfing level — and how to evolve.
Get actionable insight into body mechanics and repetition training that transforms surfers without more time in the water.
Press play now to unlock a wave energy breakthrough and finally move from effort to effortless surfing.
https://train.ombe.co/?via=surfmastery
Key Points
Discussion on the importance of tapping into wave energy and the difference between potential and kinetic energy in surfing.
Explanation of the three responses to surfing situations: freeze, flight, and fight, and how they relate to different levels of surfers.
The importance of repetition and simulation in improving surfing skills, similar to how athletes train in their respective sports.
The concept of maintaining a neutral stance in surfing, similar to an athletic stance in martial arts, to enhance control and reaction time.
The principle of 'slow is smooth and smooth is fast' in surfing, emphasizing the importance of controlled, deliberate movements for better performance.
The comparison between learning to surf and learning to play music, highlighting the need for foundational skills and repetitive practice to achieve mastery.
Introduction of the OMBI program, a 12-week challenge designed to help surfers understand the mechanics of surfing and improve their technique.
Emphasis on the importance of learning how to move the body effectively in surfing, rather than focusing solely on equipment upgrades.
Outline
Wave Energy and Surfing
Clayton discusses tapping into wave energy and how it makes surfing effortless.
Clayton emphasizes the importance of being aware of where the energy is and how to mine it.
Clayton compares surfing to moving and feeling energy rather than just learning how to surf.
Podcast Promotion and Support
Michael requests listeners to support the show by rating, sharing, or donating.
Michael acknowledges the support from listeners who donated last week.
Michael clarifies that the podcast is an audio educational resource, not a current affairs podcast.
Physics and Neuroscience of Surfing
Clayton and Michael discuss the Newtonian physics and neuroscience of surfing.
They talk about the science of wave energy and how to harness it.
They explore how getting close to wave energy affects the nervous system and psychology.
Body Mechanics and Positioning
Clayton and Michael discuss the importance of body mechanics and positioning in surfing.
They explain how good surfers maintain a stable head position and use subtle movements.
They compare the movements of beginners, intermediates, and advanced surfers.
Potential and Kinetic Energy in Surfing
Clayton explains the concepts of potential and kinetic energy in the context of surfing.
He describes how potential energy (energy of positioning) changes to kinetic energy (energy of movement) when catching a wave.
Clayton emphasizes the importance of being well-positioned to use the wave's energy effectively.
Surfing Styles and Techniques
Clayton discusses different surfing styles, comparing beginners, intermediates, and advanced surfers.
He explains how beginners freeze, intermediates run, and advanced surfers stay in the pocket.
Clayton highlights the importance of mastering body movement before mastering equipment.
Training and Repetition
Clayton emphasizes the need for repetition and training to improve surfing skills.
He suggests using surfskates and other simulations to practice outside of the water.
Clayton warns against picking up bad habits and stresses the importance of correct training.
Neutral Stance and Relaxation
Clayton discusses the importance of maintaining a neutral stance and relaxation while surfing.
He uses the example of Kelly Slater's technique and the concept of being like water.
Clayton explains how tension in the body can lead to breaks and injuries, both in fighting and surfing.
Slow and Smooth Movements
Clayton advocates for slow and smooth movements in surfing, drawing parallels to martial arts.
He explains how slowing down turns can generate more speed and better control.
Clayton compares the repetitive practice in martial arts to the need for similar practice in surfing.
Learning and Mastery in Surfing
Clayton compares learning to surf to learning music, emphasizing the importance of scales and practice.
He discusses how the brain learns quickly but the body learns slowly, necessitating consistent practice.
Clayton introduces the OMBI program, which focuses on understanding boards, the ocean, the body, and the mind.
OMBI Program and Surf Mastery
Clayton and Michael promote the OMBI program, a 12-week challenge designed to improve surfing skills.
They emphasize the importance of understanding how to move the body before focusing on equipment.
Michael urges listeners to participate in the program and provides a discount link through surfmastery.com.
Transcription
Clayton Nienaber
What they do is they're tapping into wave energy. And it's when you tap into that energy, everything becomes effortless. But you need awareness of where is that energy and how do I mine it? Where do I tap into it? I don't want to tell you how to surf. I don't want to teach you how to surf. I want to show you how to move. And then I want to show you how to tap energy and feel that energy.
Michael Frampton
That is a couple of quotes from Clayton Nienaber in today's brand new episode with Clayton. And before that, please, could you just support the show a little bit by just giving it a rating on the app you're using or just sharing it with a friend. You can donate at surfmastery.com and donate. Big shout out to all the listeners who donated last week. Thank you so much. The response was overwhelming. And it means the show is going to continue. And it means I have support through this very challenging time. I won't go over that again. Listeners, if you didn't hear the intro to the last episode, go back to the last episode. And if you're new to the show, this is not a current affairs podcast. It is an audio educational resource. So go back to any episode and it will stand alone and stand the test of time. That's how it's been designed. Okay, and on to today's episode. So Clayton and I discussed the Newtonian physics and neuroscience of surfing. Clayton talks about the science of the wave energy itself and how to harness it. And how, when we do surf, get close to that wave energy, how it affects our nervous systems and our psychology. We discussed the importance of body mechanics and positioning. This is a lot of information in this podcast. It is gold. And listeners, if you enjoy this episode... Please engage with us. Let us know. Let Clayton know on Instagram. Go to my Instagram, surfmastery. Make a comment on the post to the show. That'd be great. And of course, ask questions. Without further ado, I give you another conversation with Clayton.
Clayton Nienaber
Some people, COVID has been good and others, COVID has been horrible, and for me it's been fairly good. I've been able to focus inwardly on all the online content and I've just been learning so much more. So yeah, it's been really exciting.
Michael Frampton
We haven't spoken about surfing in quite some time. I imagine that you have been thinking in some strange and unique ways.
Clayton Nienaber
I have.
Michael Frampton
Okay. What's going on in your brain at the moment?
Clayton Nienaber
Well, from your background, if I spoke to you about potential energy and kinetic energy, what does that mean?
Michael Frampton
Potential energy and kinetic energy. This takes me back to my last year of high school in physics class. I'm going to have to let you answer that question.
Clayton Nienaber
Potential is energy of positioning and kinetic is energy of movement.
Michael Frampton
So you're potentially ready for gravity...
Clayton Nienaber
Okay.
Michael Frampton
To take effect?
Clayton Nienaber
Well, think about this. A swell line comes through. It's traveled for thousands of kilometers, and as it gets to you, it picks you up above the water level and then drops you again. Okay, so that's potential energy where it lifts you. Now, when a wave breaks, that water has the potential to lift you up, which is your potential energy, and then if you catch that wave and slide down it, your potential energy, which is your energy of position, changes to kinetic energy, which is energy of movement. Which says in surfing, if you're better positioned, you're easily able to use the wave's energy better. But if you're in a poorly oriented position, then you have to use the energy of your body. Does that make any sense to you?
Michael Frampton
Yes, so you're talking about you want to be falling as much as you can and I've always thought of surfing—good top-to-bottom surfing—as kind of like jumping and landing. I kind of feel like you spring off the bottom and you almost get... you jump, you're weightless, and then you kind of land in a top turn, and then you fall back down with gravity, and then you change direction again and the cycle repeats.
Clayton Nienaber
Okay, so let's talk about that. Let's compare surfers.
Michael Frampton
Is that kind of what you're getting at?
Clayton Nienaber
Well, imagine it this way. When you surf, your head stays in the same place. It doesn't move. If you're surfing frontside, your board would go out onto your toe edge on your bottom turn. And then as you go to the top turn, your head stays there, but you get inverted, and your board goes on rail for a heelside turn. So the more off balance you are...
Michael Frampton
Hold on, I'm going to stop you there, Clayton, because you're describing good surfing. Yes. And for listeners who don't understand what Clayton's talking about, you watch any good surfer in a surfing video and you'll see their head doesn't move much as it goes across the screen and their legs are moving underneath them a lot. So that's what Clayton's alluding to.
Clayton Nienaber
Correct.
Michael Frampton
Sorry, continue.
Clayton Nienaber
This is all going to tie in, so bear with me. Okay, now you'll notice that those good surfers don't move much.
Michael Frampton
Exactly, yes, when you look at what they're doing.
Clayton Nienaber
Yeah. Their hands are quiet, their heads are still, the knees may be compressing and extending, but what they're doing is they're tapping into wave energy. And it's when you tap into that energy, everything becomes effortless. But you need awareness of where is that energy and how do I mine it? Where do I tap into it? So that's one part of it. Have a look at a sprinter starting a 100m sprint. The guys are just bundled masses of energy, and as the gun goes off—boom!—the guys are up and sprinting. Okay, so what's their potential like for movement before the gun goes off? They're leaning forward, they're on their toes, and their potential is great, and then they spring into kinetic energy. Okay, but have a look at the lower-intermediate surfing. What is their potential like for movement? They're surfing off the back foot, they're stalling their boards, there's tension in their bodies, they can't move well, there's uncoordination, they're not mining wave energy, they haven't tapped into the wave's potential, and it's just like... it's a dog's breakfast, it's just... there's everything everywhere. It's really messy and uncoordinated. But watch someone with good style when they bottom turn. They're really exciting to watch because when you see their potential for the movement, which is the top turn, you don't know whether Filipe Toledo is doing an aerial, an ollie, you don't know what's happening next. So that potential energy, when witnessed—when it's good energy—it's exciting to watch. But when you watch a guy who surfs really poorly and you can't understand his potential for the move that's going to unfold... okay, it looks shit. So I've been going down this thing about trying to make people aware... is their potential matching their... what's the word?
Michael Frampton
The desired kinetic?
Clayton Nienaber
Correct, yeah, there we go. You can use you want.
Michael Frampton
That if... those two don't often link up with surfers. What they want is... and what their body language is suggesting... two different things.
Michael Frampton
So is it about timing? The use of potential energy.
Clayton Nienaber
When you get to being advanced, yes. Now this is the kicker, this is what I'm getting excited about. Think about this. Now, this is from my instinctual background, born millions of years ago. From caveman days, we've got our three responses to a situation: the freeze, flight, and fight. Okay, so saber-toothed tiger walks down the hill and you see it and you're like, you freeze, you shit yourself. Some of them might run, and maybe a madman grabs a spear and tries to kill the saber-toothed tiger. Okay, so think of your beginner surfer. They're learning how to surf. They're on a big foam board. They're quarter foamy. They stand up and they freeze. And they don't know how to move. And if they do move, they're like ice men, they're just stuck. Take care. Now think about your intermediate, the person who's learned how to move. Okay, they run. They take off in a wave, they don't sit in the pocket and surf, they see how fast they can go onto the shoulder. They even record that on a GPS Rip Curl watch and try to see how fast they run. Which is absolute nonsense. Because if you watch Mick Fanning surf, he surfs slower than the intermediate. He stays in the pocket, his nose faces the beach, and he takes his time to go from the top to the bottom. He fades the bottom turn, doing a figure eight, all the way up to the lip, hits it, gets speed from the wave.
Michael Frampton
His displacement is low, but his distance is high. Whereas the intermediate surfer, it's the same because they're going in a straight line.
Clayton Nienaber
Yeah, so Mick Fanning's actually traveling a further distance.
Michael Frampton
But relative to where he started, he's no better off than anyone else. But he's traveled a much further distance. So his board speed was a lot...
Clayton Nienaber
Faster. Now here's the big difference. His energy output is lower. The intermediate's energy output is higher. But the wave usage on Mick Fanning, in other words, the wave energy that he's absorbed, it's like maxed, it's up here. Whereas the intermediate's wave usage, they just hop the shoulder, they actually bounce back to the foam. They never go top to bottom, they're always like mid-face and floundering.
Michael Frampton
What's the coaching tips around this principle? What can the beginner and intermediate, how can they use this change in perspective in their own surfing?
Clayton Nienaber
What a beginner needs to do is they're frozen and they're stuck. So, okay, Bruce Lee said that you need to be like water. But intermediates are like frozen, they're like ice. So they don't move well, they're clunky. And if you watch a kid riding a bicycle for the first time, they're clunky. So they actually got to learn how to move less. Okay, and it's the subtlety of movements. Like really good surfers make subtle adjustments to the board because the board's really high performance and they're dialed in. As a beginner starts going towards intermediate, they start learning how to move, and they get excited. So they overmove, and they just surf to the shoulder, bounce their way back, and they're almost doing too much. Okay, then what Mick Fanning's doing is he learns how to slow down because he's reading the wave and he's understanding where the power is on the wave, where the energy is in the wave. His equipment allows him to do tighter turns to kind of harvest that wave energy better. Whereas what a beginner does, they rely on volume because their knowledge and understanding is very low. So they need volume to come up to assist them. Then what an intermediate does, they choose short, wide, flat boards to make them go faster because they're in flight mode. Okay? And then—do you remember Mick Fanning—I mean, sorry, Slater red banana boards? They're slow, but they're amazing in the pocket. And they allow you to harvest energy, but when your big range of intermediate surfers jumped onto that board, they found it doesn't go fast from A to B because the board wants to turn and go up and down. And so what it suggests is that a beginner cannot ride an intermediate's board. An intermediate cannot ride an advanced surfer's board. But an advanced surfer, you can surf anything backwards because you have the skill requisite to do that. Okay, but the problem with surfers is that an intermediate will get a Mick Fanning board or Filipe Toledo's Sharpeye thinking that that's going to make them jump from intermediate to advanced, when in actual fact it just highlights any bad technique as well as good technique. So you have to kind of master your body before you can master your equipment.
Michael Frampton
Yes, and how does one go about that?
Clayton Nienaber
Repetition. Yes, you've got to get your reps in. Now the problem with surfing is that we don't get enough reps in the water. And so what we've got to do is to start simulating those reps outside of the water. The same way a cricket player goes to the cricket nets. The same way a tennis player might have a machine shoot them a tennis ball and they do reps. We need to start doing simulations. And a really good way is to use surfskates. But like anything, you could pick up bad habits if you did it wrong, and good habits if you train it correctly. So you need awareness on how to train these things.
Michael Frampton
The beginner is freezing, the intermediate is...
Clayton Nienaber
Running.
Michael Frampton
...flighting. And the advanced just wants to stay in the pocket. Stay in the...
Clayton Nienaber
Pocket and just hit the lip, pull in the barrel, get deeper. Because that's where most of the feeling comes from. So it's got to do with risk and reward. Okay, sorry, I've lost you on the sound. It's just kind of a bit weird here.
Michael Frampton
No.
Clayton Nienaber
Okay. I gotcha. So the higher the risk, the better the reward. So if an intermediate is running towards the shoulder, where's the reward in that? Other than to all your mates on the beach, "Hey, I just travelled like 5km going 30mph on that last wave." Like, nah, it doesn't count. It's how deep in the barrel, how vertical did you go? How high on the air are you progressing? It's very much got to do with risk and reward. Yes, it's got the most energy.
Michael Frampton
For sure. Well the most powerful part of the wave is closest to where it's breaking. And that's where good surfers love to play. Yeah. So in order to be... comfortable playing there. So tie those two things together, in order to have comfort playing in that zone, in that power zone of the wave, you have to have control of your body movement? Is that part of it?
Clayton Nienaber
Okay, so I did an interview with Kelly Slater, it was a couple years ago now. And he said something profound to me. I had to go back and listen to it a couple times until I found it. So I was asking about his stance because he was playing a lot of golf, and he said when he's played more golf, he started to concentrate on his technique. He concentrated on what he was like in between turns. So I was thinking, okay, what are you doing on the turns? He was focusing on what he's doing in between turns. And he said no matter where he visualized himself on that wave, he needed to be in a neutral stance between turns so no matter what happened on that wave he was ready to react to it.
Michael Frampton
Okay, so by neutral stance you mean like an athletic stance, like ready to move in any direction.
Clayton Nienaber
Okay, so if I said to you, okay Marco, we are going to go and do mixed martial arts. I want you to get into the ring and get into a fight stance. What would that be?
Michael Frampton
So yeah, it'd be knees slightly bent, hips slightly bent. Just sort of protecting yourself, your rib cage, alert, aware, standing tall but not straight up and down.
Clayton Nienaber
So it's relaxed. Because the more relaxed you are, the more alert you are. So let me give you an example. Again with fighting, if you hold tension in your body, in other words, if someone's standing on a leg and the leg's tense, if you kick that leg, it will break. But if you relax while you're standing, if someone kicks your leg, you'll absorb the impact and you won't break or damage anything.
Michael Frampton
Be like...
Clayton Nienaber
Water.
Michael Frampton
Correct.
Clayton Nienaber
So if you identify tension, you hit—it breaks. So likewise when you surf. If you watch Kelly Slater when he's surfing, you don't see any tension when he surfs.
Michael Frampton
Is comfortable in the chaos.
Clayton Nienaber
That's exactly what it is.
Michael Frampton
So didn't Kelly Slater once say, once describe surfing as a martial art? I did hear him say that once, I can't remember where.
Clayton Nienaber
Well, I like the whole Bruce Lee thing saying that you have to be like water because—water moves. Well, if you freeze water, it doesn't move. Likewise, if you heat up water particle, it moves around too much, becomes a gas vapor. There's nothing there. So on your surfboard, if you're moving around too much, like none of that movement transfers into your surfing. It's just messy. It's uncoordinated. But you need to learn how to flow. And when you flow, you tend to move really well through water and you understand water.
Michael Frampton
I like that. Yeah, I get what water does. When water is too violent, it just becomes aerated, and that's exactly what you're toying with.
Clayton Nienaber
Correct.
Michael Frampton
Just close to that—
Aerated water.
Clayton Nienaber
So this is something that I've been working on myself personally. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. So I've slowed my bottom turns down and I'm generating more speed through the turn. I've slowed my turns down, the turns are smoother and I'm not losing any speed. Because if I'm going to try to push violently, I break the water, I aerate it, the tail slides out, I lose traction.
Michael Frampton
Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. That's for listeners—that's a very famous saying in the martial arts world. That's why in martial arts, a thousand year old, thousands of year old tradition, movement focused, they do things called, you know, katas and forms and such things where they repetitively practice the move they need to. So, for example, a punch might be from A to B with a fist. You practice that a thousand times, concentrating on it being slow and smooth in the hopes that when you do need to use it fast, that fist travels in a very straight, controlled direction. And then you add your power to it. Same principle in surfing. But we don't use it enough, which is what you're saying. We need to have our forms. A hundred percent. And so we're going to practice these movements. Now.
Clayton Nienaber
Michael, you know what surfers do? They just try to do that like king punch bang without any practicing. So I did kickboxing for about two months. Killed me. I rolled my ankle, rolled my wrist, rolled my thumb. I had to give up because I was trying to punch too hard to impress the guy that I was training with.
Michael Frampton
In martial arts you go in there with, "I'm just gonna go at it and I can throw a punch." You learn very quickly how pathetic you are because the feedback is instant. Now with surfing, you're only going to get that feedback if you see yourself on film. Really?
Clayton Nienaber
Basically the guy who taught me how to elbow, kick, punch, and all that was saying—dial down the intensity of the punch, increase the accuracy. And through doing reps—okay—despite getting accurately and punching slow, the reps are going to give you, it's going to build muscle. And then you're gonna get speed, and then you're gonna get strength. He said, "Don't worry about power." So I thought about this on surfing. Everyone's trying to do these big turns. So I always tell people just dial it down, turn it 60%. And it'll be better than your turn blowing the tail out at 100% and falling. And as soon as you do 60%, you kind of relax into the turn, and you get more sensory feedback from the wave and feedback from your board. And the turns are so much nicer.
Michael Frampton
With martial arts, the feedback is so much... it's more black and white. Do you know what I mean? If you were to spar with someone and you had really bad technique...
Clayton Nienaber
Yes.
Michael Frampton
It's instantly, you know instantly. But with surfing, you can surf with poor technique and you think, I mean, it's still fun. But what you don't realize is what you're missing out on. Okay.
Clayton Nienaber
So here's the kicker. In martial arts, if you've got your hands down, you're going to get... punched in the nose, you're gonna get a blood nose and it freaking hurts. In surfing, you surf with your hands down, you fall off and catch a rail and go, "That was a shit wave. Or maybe I need a better board." Let me go get a Hypto Krypto. So, surfers are quick to want to blame the equipment or blame the waves. They never look inward. And go, hey, I'm surfing shit, I dropped my hand so I caught rail and fell off the board. So in surfing, one thing that you can control is your body, but they don't look inwardly to controlling the body. They look for excuses. Outwardly. Yeah, which is a strange phenomenon with surfers. Okay, so you play music. Let's compare surfing to music. So imagine I like music, all right? So I'm in the car, in the shower, whatever it is, and a song comes on that I like, and I'm just jamming to it. Like, yeah, that's awesome. This is really fun. I may not know the words. I don't care. I just nail the chorus, and it's really fun because I'm kind of interested in that song. Alright, that's people learning how to surf. But then what happens is they start taking a bit more of an interest in it because they want to improve their surfing. So they start to consume videos and they're like, wow, Torren Martyn and Craig Anderson, Mikey February, surfs a really good style. And they can kind of now see what's good and what's bad. They might even get some video and go, wow, I'm kind of surfing bad. Okay, so that's like almost going to a karaoke bar and going, "Hell, these are actually words and lyrics." And for the first time I understand that this is the right lyrics and there's that little ball that hits each word like this is the time that I have to sing it at and I can't go too fast. I can't go too slow and... okay? So there you're actually getting knowledge about surfing. But that knowledge does not help you surf better. The reason being the brain learns really quickly but the body learns really slow. So what you then have to do if you're a musician, you might go and get a music lesson from your guitar teacher. He teaches you how to read music. He teaches you which chords to play, when to play it, about tempo, about how to hold a note, all that kind of stuff. So that's like you're going to a music—your music teacher is like going to a surf coach. Okay, or doing the OMBE program, whatever that may be.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, you have to do your scales, otherwise you won't understand music, your fingers won't...
Clayton Nienaber
Work.
Michael Frampton
Correct. Now inside of those scales it's a slow process, it's a frustrating process. But once you understand that, you could almost from then pick up any other instrument and almost play it really well. Because you've got a basic understanding of how music works. Which is similar to, think of your instrument as like, if you could play guitar you might be able to get the rhythm on the drums. If you can surf a regular board, your instrument is your surfboard, you could ride a twin fin, you could ride a mid-length, you can ride a longboard. If you understand waves, if you understand and you've done your scales—being your reps—and then if you understand that, you go to that upper level where you become creative and you have fun.
Michael Frampton
Yes, well that's the idea with music is the reason you do your scales and your theory and your practice is so that when you do go to jam, you don't have to think about any of it, you just focus on the music.
Clayton Nienaber
Yes.
Michael Frampton
And then there's no separation between your creativity and your movement.
Clayton Nienaber
Correct. So, imagine, where would music be if no one did the scales and no one did the practicing? That's where surfing is. You get some guys who just learn by ear and like they figured out how to play. They don't need to read music.
Michael Frampton
Some people—because I had this question about surfing too—I was like, well, how come some surfers just seem to... and I think it's just... good musicians, they just happen upon, they just happen to have good hand control, and they just happen upon good technique, and they happen to get the right lesson early on, and it builds from there.
Clayton Nienaber
Correct.
Michael Frampton
And most bad surfers, the foundation is just... ugh. But you think if you're a good surfer and your first two or three surfs were amazing experiences and you happened to stand in the right position and be in control, then you're set up for a great surfing technique in a surfing life. That's very few of us.
Clayton Nienaber
Yep.
Michael Frampton
Very few of us. We all have to go back...
Clayton Nienaber
Do the scales.
Michael Frampton
So the 12-week program encompasses all of this stuff.
Clayton Nienaber
Right? Okay. Like I said, in lockdown we've managed to spend a lot of time developing this program called OMBE. We've got an app for it now.
Michael Frampton
Which is Ocean Mind Body Equipment. Equipment.
Clayton Nienaber
Yes. And on that, we give away so much knowledge and if you don't know... So the whole thing about OMBE is we want people to understand how boards work, how the ocean works, how your body works, how the mind works. So we've got psychologists, we make people go body surfing, there's all kinds of crazy stuff that we do, all in pursuit of knowledge. Just because you know it doesn't mean that you can do it. So we've created courses, one being the 12-week challenge, where we almost get you back to your foundations. So many times I've had guys come to me for coaching and they've spent 20 years surfing, picking up bad habits, and all I got to do is literally just try to undo the bad habits before I can even teach them something new. And so once you've got a good foundation, it's like building a house. You've got your corner blocks, your foundation's there, then whatever you want to build after that, it's up to you. I've actually come across this thinking or whatever you want to call it, I don't teach people how to surf anymore, I teach them how to move. And then however they want to be creative in the water, however—like, I will teach you scales and then however you want to play your guitar, to whatever music you want to make, whether it's country, rock, like whatever.
Michael Frampton
Well, not just scales, like music theory and song structure as well.
Clayton Nienaber
Yes. So I don't want to tell you how to surf. I don't want to teach you how to surf. I want to show you how to move. And then I want to show you how to tap energy and feel that energy. And then if you get excited and you want to bolt and run, do it. Because if it makes you feel good, do it. If you want to hit the lip, do it. If you want to get barreled, do it. But you need to be able to know how to move to be able to tap into all of that.
Michael Frampton
Yes. All right. I've done the 12-week challenge. I urge listeners to do it. It's simple. Wake up, just stop spending money on surfboards. Unless of course you want to buy one of Clayton's boards, then do that, but you're better off spending money on learning about surfing and changing the way your body moves because that's the only way that you will get better.
Clayton Nienaber
Yeah, so that was that whole thing I was saying, like the intermediate wants to get Filipe Toledo's board so hopefully he can do an air. But he hasn't learned the body function. I know, dropping a thousand dollars on a new board, yes it feels good. Does it make you surf better? No. Learning how to move your body, is it healthier for you? Yes. Is it going to give you longevity in surfing? Yes. After that, you could probably ride any board. And you're going to have fun in it.
Michael Frampton
Beautiful. Well, Surf Mastery and OMBE have teamed up to offer listeners a discount to this program, and OMBE and Clayton are in full support of my personal situation, which we discussed in the previous episode. So listeners, please go and check out OMBE, and if you want to do that, please go through either the link attached to the app that you're listening to this through or go to my website and go from there. So my website is surfmastery.com.
Clayton Nienaber
I love being on the podcast. Thanks for the invite.
Michael Frampton
Awesome. Great pleasure. Thank you. Yeah.
67 The Physics & Neuroscience of Surfing w Clayton Nienaber
For the passionate surfer—whether you're a weekend warrior, a surf dad, or an older surfer—this podcast is all about better surfing and deeper stoke. With expert surf coaching, surf training, and surfing tips, we’ll help you catch more waves, refine your paddling technique, and perfect your pop up on a surfboard. From surf workouts to handling wipeouts, chasing bigger waves, and mastering surf technique, we’re here to make sure you not only improve but truly enjoy surfing more—so you can get more out of every session and become a wiser surfer. Go from Beginner or intermediate Surfer to advanced.