98 Matt Parker - Choosing Boards and Breaking Surfing Rules
Are you riding the right surfboard—or just trying to impress people in the parking lot?
In this episode, Matt Parker of Album Surf dismantles the myth that high-performance shortboards are the gold standard for all surfers. From soft tops to asymmetrical shapes, Matt explains how the right board isn’t about status—it’s about unlocking joy, freedom, and better surfing.
Learn why board variety helps you read waves better and accelerate your skill
Discover how pro surfers are ditching shortboards for more playful, experimental shapes
Get Matt’s exact 3-board travel quiver and his unconventional advice on picking boards for max fun
Listen now to hear why breaking surfing rules might be the smartest move for your stoke and your surf progression.
Follow Matt Parker:
Instagram: @albumsurf
Linkedin: matt-parker-7877a17
Website: albumsurf.com
Don’t forget to visit our new website for a free PDF download outlining Michael’s top five insights from the show, and reach out if you know anyone at YouTube to help resolve access issues!
Enjoy the episode and happy surfing!
Key Points
Matt Parker discusses the significance of personal enjoyment in surfing over seeking approval from others, emphasizing the solitary nature of the sport.
Matt shares his experience transitioning from making surfboards as a hobby to establishing Album Surf as a successful business, driven by demand and innovation.
The misconception that high-performance shortboards are the only legitimate boards for serious surfing is debunked, highlighting the value of alternative designs.
Matt describes the evolution of his relationship with surfing, noting increased enjoyment and appreciation for the sport as he ages.
Matt Parker reveals his preferred three surfboards for travel, showcasing a fish, a big board, and an asymmetrical performance board.
Matt discusses the unique features and benefits of Album Surf's soft tops, distinguishing them from competitors by their design details and manufacturing process.
Matt Parker's best surf advice is to choose a board based on personal enjoyment rather than seeking approval, while his worst advice involves unnecessary restrictions on board choice.
Outline
Surfing Motivations and Social Status
Matt Parker discusses the idea that some people pursue surfing for social status rather than the actual experience of surfing.
Parker believes that focusing on approval from others is short-term thinking and leads to dissatisfaction.
Surfing is described as a solitary pursuit where the individual experiences the wave and the moment.
Surf Mastery Podcast and New Website
Michael Frampton introduces the Surf Mastery Podcast and mentions a new website with a free PDF download of top 5 insights from the show.
The website features insights from the last 8 years of improving surfing skills.
Matt Parker and Album Surf
Matt Parker is introduced as a guest from Album Surf, a large surfboard company specializing in various types of boards.
Parker started shaping surfboards in 2001 and emphasizes the blending of curves and interaction with water in surfboard design.
A quote from Parker's website highlights the idea that there shouldn't be rules about what a surfboard looks like.
Living in New Zealand vs. California
Michael Frampton discusses living in New Zealand, specifically Hawke's Bay on the east coast of the North Island.
Frampton mentions the average surf conditions in the area and the need to drive for better waves.
Matt Parker compares the weather and surf conditions in Southern California to those in New Zealand.
Surfboards and Variety
Matt Parker and Michael Frampton discuss the benefits of using different types of surfboards.
Parker mentions that he rarely rides the same board two days in a row and enjoys the discovery process of each new board.
Frampton shares his experience with an 11-foot Josh Hall board, which taught him about reading waves and being present.
Professional Surfers and Board Choices
Michael Frampton notes that many professional surfers, when not competing, choose to ride different types of boards rather than high-performance shortboards.
Matt Parker agrees and provides examples of surfers like Josh Kerr who prefer alternative boards.
Parker believes that high-performance shortboards direct surfers to a specific type of surfing, whereas alternative boards offer more freedom and fun.
Car Racing Analogy for Surfboards
Michael Frampton uses a car racing analogy to describe the difference between high-performance shortboards and other types of boards.
Frampton compares high-performance shortboards to finely tuned Formula One cars and other boards to V8 supercars.
Matt Parker agrees with the analogy, emphasizing that surfing is about the feeling and the tactile experience.
Surf Culture and Perception
Matt Parker discusses the culture of surfing and the perception that surfers want to project competence and coolness.
Parker believes that some surfers focus more on how they are perceived in the lineup rather than the enjoyment they get from surfing.
He advises against pursuing surfing for the approval of others, especially since it is a solitary pursuit.
Matt Parker's Journey into Surfboard Shaping
Matt Parker shares his journey into shaping surfboards, starting with curiosity and experimentation in the late 80s and early 90s.
Parker began shaping boards with no intention of it becoming a business, focusing on the creation and exploration process.
His interest in different board shapes and the lack of available options led him to start shaping his own boards.
Transition to a Business
Matt Parker transitioned from shaping boards as a hobby to running Album Surf as a business.
The demand for his unique boards and the accessibility of the surf industry in the digital age contributed to this decision.
Parker's boards resonated with professional surfers, validating his designs and encouraging him to pursue the business further.
Surfing Philosophy and Enjoyment
Matt Parker shares his current relationship with surfing, emphasizing the importance of being in the water as much as possible.
He notes that while his physical abilities may have peaked, he enjoys surfing more now than ever due to a better perspective and appreciation for the experience.
Parker believes that the mindset and appreciation for the opportunity to surf contribute to a more enjoyable experience.
Choosing Surfboards for Travel
Matt Parker discusses the challenge of choosing three boards to travel with, given his constant R&D and new board designs.
He suggests a fish, a bigger board like Margo's models, and an asymmetrical high-performance board like the Disorder or Bongia.
Michael Frampton agrees, highlighting the importance of having a versatile quiver to adapt to different wave conditions.
Glider Surfboards and Longboarding
Matt Parker and Michael Frampton discuss the satisfaction and unique experience of riding glider surfboards.
They emphasize the kinetic energy, speed, and momentum maintenance that gliders offer.
Parker prefers riding gliders over traditional longboards, enjoying the trim and glide feeling.
Soft Top Surfboards
Matt Parker explains the differences in Album Surf's soft top surfboards compared to others on the market.
He mentions that their soft tops are made in different places, with some having injection foam and others having a foam core with stringers.
Parker highlights the benefits of soft tops for beginners and experienced surfers alike, emphasizing the fun and unique experience they offer.
Best and Worst Surf Advice
Matt Parker shares the best surf advice he has received, which is to choose the board that brings the most fun and not worry about others' opinions.
He also mentions the worst advice, which is unnecessary rules or perceptions about how surfing should be done.
Parker emphasizes that surfing should be about having fun and being out in the ocean, without strict rules or expectations.
Transcription
Michael Frampton
Welcome back to the Surf Mastery Podcast. I am your host, Michael Frampton. Today's guest is Matt Parker from Album Surf. But before we get into that, a couple of housekeeping items. Firstly, Surf Mastery has a new website, and included on that on the front page is a free PDF download outlining my top five insights from the show and the last eight years or so of focusing on improving my own surfing. Um, so go ahead and download that puppy. Also, does anyone know anyone on YouTube? I have been denied access to my YouTube account and have exhausted all other avenues and have had a dead end. So if anyone knows anyone at YouTube, please reach out: mike@surfmastery.com or you can DM me on Instagram as well. Onto the show. Today's guest, like I said, is Matt Parker from Album Surf. Matt is a surfer from Southern California, and he started shaping surfboards from his garage back in 2001. And now Album Surf is one of the largest surfboard companies around. They specialize in all types of boards. And let me read a little quote from Matt’s website, which sort of summarizes the way he thinks about surfboards. This is a quote from Matt: “The surfboard is a constant blending of curves and how they interact with the water, making those curves feel comfortable, like an extension of your feet and your mind.” It's so interesting. There shouldn’t be any rules about what a surfboard looks like. I love that quote, and you would have seen there are so many pros that when they aren’t surfing on tour, they end up on these boards, including one of my favorite surfers of all time, Margo. Yes, one of the best free surfers around, Brendan Margieson is well worth a follow on Instagram as well. He started riding Matt’s boards. Anyway, without further ado, I shall fade in my conversation with Matt Parker from Album Surf.
Matt Parker
How are things? Uh, how are things in New Zealand?
Michael Frampton
Are things going swimmingly?
Matt Parker
Always there. So you live in the prettiest place on Earth. How could it not?
Michael Frampton
Oh, yeah. You're not wrong. Although I have to admit, I do miss California.
Matt Parker
Did you have spent time out here before you lived here or just...
Michael Frampton
Yeah, I lived in, uh, I lived in Point Dume, Malibu for four years. Oh, cool. So I was obviously in a little bit of a bubble surfing Little Dume every day, but, uh, you know, the weather, the weather alone in Southern California, I kind of felt like it was a bit monotonous. After four years there, I almost missed winter. But having come back to New Zealand and actually experiencing the four seasons, I take California any day.
Matt Parker
Yeah, it's big news when it rains here. It's like, yeah.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, no one can drive in the rain in California.
Matt Parker
No. Definitely not, definitely not.
Michael Frampton
And then, of course you can't. Well, you're not supposed to go in the water either.
Matt Parker
Uh, so. So whereabouts in New Zealand? What part are you at? Like, where do you surf at and all that?
Michael Frampton
I'm in a place called Hawke’s Bay, which is on the east coast of the North Island. There's nowhere really famous surf-wise around here. The surf is pretty average around here, actually. We have a mass, uh, continental shelf. So the swell comes in with a, uh, just with almost no energy left in it unless it's a certain period that seems to sneak through. Um, so, yeah, around here is not so good for surfing, to be honest. I came back here to, you know, raise the kids and I think, yeah, that sort of thing.
Matt Parker
But there’s pretty drivable though, right? I mean, you can get...
Michael Frampton
Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, you know, if you're willing to drive, um, then yeah, you can get waves, probably get good waves almost every day in New Zealand actually, if you're willing to drive and put up with a little bit of weather.
Matt Parker
Mhm. Not afraid of a little wind. Right. Find the blowing the right way. Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Exactly. Well, that’s another big thing is I remember in Southern California so many days there’s just no wind.
Matt Parker
Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Where you don’t really get that in New Zealand. Maybe the first two hours of the day there's not much wind, but you'd never get a day where it’s glassy until midday like in Southern California. That’s rare here.
Matt Parker
Yeah. That's like the prototypical dreamy Southern California fall day where it's kind of glass, a little bit offshore in the morning, and kind of glassy and nice and sunny and warm all day with fun combo swells. That's kind of the ideal. It's like that a lot. I'm down in San Clemente. It's pretty clean down here, too. We live in like a little valley that kind of keeps the wind cleaner here. I don't know if it's just protected a little bit from some of the, you know, more beach break spots up in Huntington and Newport, all those spots. But, um...
Michael Frampton
Yeah. No, I've spent a little bit of time down your way as well. I surfed Lowers and I got to interview Archy on my way down there and I spent some time. Um, I love surfing Swami’s and just that whole Encinitas area. Spent some time down there?
Matt Parker
Yeah.
Michael Frampton
And, uh, part of what I wanted to talk about today was, obviously, surfboards. But I remember we interviewed Devon Howard, and so I got to surf with Devon and I was surfing this, like it was a Stu Kenson 9'4". And I would just paddle. I would just paddle right out the back as far as you can at Little Dume and surf it like Sarlo, almost just catch the swell and just get long, big sweeping rides. And Devon’s like, “You should just be on a glider.” And I was like, “What’s a glider?” And then so I just, I just went out and bought an 11-foot Josh Hall, and that’s pretty much all I surf all of the time.
Matt Parker
Even further out. You weren't even like another hundred yards out, would catch it even out the back. Yeah. It's amazing.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. And then I'm always swapping around boards. But that 11-foot board just taught me so much about surfing. Just the sheer volume and weight and size of the board. Just, you have to think about reading the waves so differently and about, you know, the space around you with other people so differently. And then when you finally do jump back on a board, a shortboard or whatever, I found it so much easier and more fun and easier to sort of be present after having learnt how to surf such a big surfboard. Yo. Have you experienced anything similar with playing around with lots of different boards?
Matt Parker
Yeah, I, um, I, obviously I make boards and so I'm always riding something different. You know, most of the time it's rare that I ride the same board two days in a row. Um, and so I'm very used to like the initial paddle out where, um, I, I can't try too hard, you know what I mean? I kind of have to just feel what the board is going to do and just kind of be open to what it feels like once I'm dropping in and just kind of riding the wave. And so it makes me, um, yeah, it's just a good little lesson every time because you can't, you can't force it. And so, uh, you remain a little bit relaxed and not try to do too much, and then you kind of feel it out and every wave is kind of like a—you're learning a little bit more about what the board wants to do and what line it wants to take, and trying to figure out where the gas pedal is. And, and, uh, so that's like the discovery part of surfing for me because I surf, I tend to surf the same place every day. And it's a point break down near, uh, Lowers and it's kind of a similar wave, but it's kind of a sectional point break that offers some variety. But it's the same place. You know, I'm surfing in the same spot all the time. And so the variety of boards, um, just kind of changes up. Um, it kind of removes expectations sometimes. I think sometimes if you have a board you've ridden a ton and you're kind of like, oh, this is the kind of surfing I want to go do. And these are the, you know, these are the turns I'm going to do or whatever. And when you're surfing a little bit more blind to what the board is going to allow you to do, it just kind of, um, keeps you from having expectations. And then you're kind of, uh, you just find fun in different ways and new experiences every time you surf.
Michael Frampton
So I think that really good top-level surfers are doing that on a much more refined and accurate level because they're always so close to where the wave is breaking. There's so much in the source and they're feeling all those little bumps and nooks and obviously those sorts of boards at that speed are ridiculously sensitive. So if they're not tuned in to that, it’s just not going to happen. Whereas you and I are surfing bigger boards a little further away from the power source, we kind of can get away with not being tuned in, but when we do, they're aware.
Matt Parker
Yeah, their awareness level is so next level, so high. I like the little nuances, and they can feel a lot of things they can and can't always communicate verbally, but they definitely know what they're feeling and experiencing in a different way than most regular people.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. You know what I found that's really interesting is, all of the pros—well, not all of them—a lot of the pros, when you see them out free surfing or when they take a break off tour, then they're not riding high-performance shortboards. You know, Josh Kerr is a great example. Um, you know, even Steph Gilmore and Kelly Slater with Firewire, just riding different boards. As soon as there's not a camera and a judge looking at them, they're like, "I'm on this board." Yeah, yeah, yeah. I go down to the local beach and it's waist high and onshore and it's 11 seconds, and there's people out there on toothpicks pumping and getting angry. But the pro—even the pros when they're surfing good waves—they're not on those high-performance shortboards. Are you seeing a similar trend overall in Southern California?
Matt Parker
Uh, yeah. I mean, well, specifically with everybody that—all the guys and gals I make boards for—but no one that rides for us really does contest surfing. Most everyone is just kind of free surfing. And so they're definitely on the track of surfing whatever feels good and experiencing a lot of different things. But yeah, Josh is a perfect example. I don't think he's touched a thruster since his last heat at Pipe, honestly, when he retired, and that was probably five years ago or something like that. Even in good waves and every kind of wave, whether he's in Indo or wherever it is, he's always riding something different. And uh, I think obviously high-performance shortboards surf amazing. We all love to watch surfing. We love watching contests and, you know, the sport of it all. It's always exciting and entertaining and all that. But I think that type of board, um, directs you to one type of surfing. There’s, you know, like everyone's trying to kind of surf the ideal way that that board kind of pushes you to. And the judging and the contest structure is kind of, um, positioned around that ideal as well. So I think, um, when you remove that, that box that you're trying to operate in and you don't have to do the same turns and all that, you know, you're just freed up to do whatever you want to do. That's always going to be a more fun option. And for me personally, I am someone who makes boards, it's true. That's my favorite thing, is to see, uh, people that can surf at a world-class level, see them surf a lot of different boards and see the different places those boards can go when it's put under the feet of very, very talented people. Because, um, because for the most part, you know, most of the surf media, most surf contests, you see these very high-level surfers riding very similar types of equipment.
Michael Frampton
Um, yeah, I've always had this analogy in terms of car racing, whereas the pros in a contest, they're in a finely tuned Formula 1 that's customized for their style, right? And then for some reason, we want to go race around the local racetrack, and we think we need to be in one of those cars. And yeah, sure, when the average driver is in a high-performance car, yes, you can drive it around the track, but man, it's going to be bumpy. It's going to be shaking. If you're not constantly turning the car, it's just not going to be as fun as getting in a V8 supercar that's nowhere near as fast or fine-tuned, but it's a little more—it's got a little more give. It still goes fast. So that's what I'm wondering. You see these pros, when they're surfing outside of the contest, they don't necessarily want to be in a finely tuned Formula 1. They just want to be in a V8 supercar and just have a little less pressure and a little more give. How does that analogy stack up for you? The car racing one?
Matt Parker
Well, I like—to me surfing really is about the feeling, right? And like the tactile feeling of driving a car that's fast and that wants to go and that you're feeling it. And there's a little bit of like, uh, you know, you're not going to crash right away. You know, like a regular driver, if they went behind the F1 car, they're probably going to crash pretty quick because they just can't handle it, right? It's too technical to drive, all that kind of stuff. So you get into something that has a better feel. But it is about the feeling. And you know, ultimately that's what we're chasing every time we surf. That's why we want to get another wave, is because you want to get that feeling again. And uh, and so the same with the pros that can surf at the highest level. You know, they're chasing the feeling. The contest is like the job side of it. You know, it's ticking the box I feel in to win and do all that. But if they're freed from that, they're chasing the feeling of going fast and finding a tube and not having to fit in as many turns as they need to just to get the score, but to actually do the turn where the wave is allowing them to or not, or just ride the wave.
Michael Frampton
So that makes sense. Well, yeah, because I'm always dumbfounded when you see so many surfers spending so much time and money on taking these high-performance—you know, they watch Stab in the Dark and they want to buy the latest version of the ten shortboards that they already own. It really doesn't make much sense to me. And I think things are changing, but there certainly is still a large percentage of surfers that fit in that category. Uh, do you think it's trending the other way with companies like yourself and even, you know, Channel Islands are broadening their range of boards? Um, I...
Matt Parker
Think it's—for me, it definitely is the best time to be alive, to be a surfer, because you really have more options nowadays than you ever have in the past, and you really can ride anything. When I was young, as a teenager in the 90s, surfing—it really was—you, everyone kind of had the same board. I rode the same board no matter the conditions. It was like a 6'3", 18.5", 2¼", rockered-out shortboard no matter what. If it was one foot, if it was six foot, whatever. So nowadays you really do—like, I think everyone's kind of experienced like, oh yeah, I can have a little bit more of a diverse quiver, and it's okay if I'm riding a fish one day or I'm riding like a little stretched-out worm another day, or if I'm riding a shortboard one day or whatever. It's like there's a little bit more, um, versatility and variety, and, um, so it's a—it's a great time to be alive, to be a surfer in that way. I think, um, uh, I just think that, yeah, there's just less rules, less rules about it, more enjoyment.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Yeah. I guess the question is, the impetus of the show is education and inspiration for better surfing, really. And I guess when I take on a client myself personally, um, one of the first things I say to them is like, why do you want to—why are you on that board? Like, this isn't—you're not surfing double overhead barrels. Like, that's what that board’s made for. Like, just try...
Matt Parker
Yeah, I think I've said this before, but I think a lot of, um, uh, just the culture of surfing is a little bit like—no, everyone wants to look competent, right? And so a lot, a lot of surfing culture is the perception that you put out there, right? Like, I'm the cool guy. I got the right board. I got—I'm not a kook. You know, I'm wearing the right trunks, I've got the right wetsuit, and I've got the right traction pad, and whatever it is, I've got the cool label. This is what I'm—you know, because a lot of people are more concerned with how others perceive them in the lineup. Because sometimes, you know, how you're perceived in the lineup gives you status and gives you—you know, if you're competent, you can kind of—you get more waves and you get a little bit more respect from people around you. And so there's a little bit of a game that people play in trying to, um, project competency and a cool factor. And I'm not a kook. And so sometimes people put too much weight on that, and they're more concerned with what they look like on the beach or in the car park than they actually are...
Matt Parker
And then the enjoyment they're actually getting out of it themselves. You know, like, are you actually having fun? You mentioned like the guys that are flapping around and having a miserable time. There's always people out in the water that are—you kind of wonder sometimes. Do you actually—like, what are you actually getting out of this? Do you actually enjoy what you're doing? And, uh, I don't know. Every—different strokes for different folks. People get different things out of it. And maybe that little social status thing is more important than the actual surfing. And I think that's obviously short-term thinking, because—and it's like, that's a hollow chase that you're after, because you're never going to be satisfied with that. And you shouldn't be. I don't think you should be spending too much time pursuing things for the approval of others. You know, surfing is kind of a solitary pursuit, right? You're the one that's doing it, and you're the one that's riding the wave, and you're the one that's having that moment and feeling it. If you're doing it for what other people think about you, I think you're missing. You're missing the point, you know?
Michael Frampton
So, yeah, well, I definitely fit into that category for a while. Um, we all do.
Matt Parker
At some point, you know, in a little bit. We all do. You know, everyone—no, like I said, everybody who surfs wants to look competent. Kelly Slater doesn't want to be a kook. He wants to be the cool guy in the lineup. We all kind of have that feeling to a certain degree.
Michael Frampton
Um, and there's something to be said, you know, surfing that high-performance shortboard in all types of conditions—you will develop a very intimate relationship with that surfboard. And when the waves do turn on, you're going to be pretty used to it. And then, you know, you're probably going to have a better surf on that day. Um, but was there a point in your surfing life where that changed? Like, where you started riding different boards, more volume, etc.?
Matt Parker
Um, yeah. Like I said, I grew up in the—like, I started surfing in the late 80s, early—and then through the 90s. I was a teenager in the early 90s, and, uh, back then it was really about just being competent enough and you just riding what everybody else rode. And that was really all that was available—just kind of your standard shortboards. I guess for me, as like a general public, you know, not in—you know, I didn’t have any—my dad surfed a little bit when he was young, but I didn’t come from like a long line of family surfing and all that kind of stuff. And so probably I—I started getting curious, more curious about surfboards. Um, and that’s kind of what led me into shaping a little bit, is that I was interested. I—you know, you get—back then, this is pre-internet really, you know, but you would get little—to see different little videos. You’d see different things that were just like, oh, you know, like, that looks fun. That looks like more fun. I was surfing Newport Beach. It's two-foot closeouts most of the time. It's not good. It's—you know, it's hard. Like surfing is hard out there and you're riding equipment that's bad.
Matt Parker
So you just have a lot of frustrating sessions and you're just like, just gotta—you know, just—you would see videos, you'd see guys in good waves. And so that was always—like I was interested in, um, trying different boards to get a different experience. You know, I was competent enough, but I was by no means pro or anything like that. I was good enough out in the lineup to get waves and to surf and fine, but it was not—but I always felt like those boards held me back, too. You know, just the normal boards, because they kind of—you know, you just have like—it can't be this frustrating all the time. So the interest in different boards. So I would go to different shops and I would want to get a board that was different and I could never really find one. You know, I could never really find what I was looking for. And then, um, even when I would order custom boards, you know, from local shapers, I would try to explain what I had in my brain, what I was like trying to go for. And it was never—it never—like, it was probably my fault for not communicating that clearly what I was really after, but it never was it.
Matt Parker
And so I was, uh, in design school and art school and taking all these like sculpture and drawing and painting classes and stuff. And so it was just kind of a natural extension to get a blank and some tools and kind of experiment and just try to make something without any restrictions of what it had to look like, because I was just fooling around, you know. So that was probably the interest. And that was probably at the time when, like, um, things were coming more online and you had more access to just different things other people were doing. And so you could kind of see, uh, you know, your world was kind of opened up as far as like, oh, there’s like other shapers in all these places making different things. And there are a lot of cool things out there that I just hadn’t really experienced and I didn’t have—I had never tried or felt or seen in person, but like, it just kind of expanded what was possible. And the interest level in surfing really grew. And my fun level expanded too, because it was like everything was opened up more.
Michael Frampton
Um, and then it sounds like the development or the birth of Album Surfboards was quite organic. You saw essentially a gap in the market, right?
Matt Parker
Yeah. Initially, for years I was shaping boards with no intention of it being a thing, being a business or anything. It was more—I just wanted to try different things. And, um, the creation part of it was really fun, like just designing and trying something, and the tactile thing of making something with your hands and then seeing it finished and then going and riding it was very addicting. It was very, um, yeah, it just kind of opened my mind a lot. And it was just—it just made the exploration process of trying different boards satisfying, even if the surf was bad. So in the old days, you know, as a kid when I was a teenager and you’re trying to just, like, do all the moves you see in the videos and you’re having frustrating sessions because the waves aren’t good most of the time, and you’re riding boards that aren’t good—you just—surfing wasn’t as fun. And so when I was making boards and exploring and trying these different types of shapes, just going out and seeing that it worked and making it like get down the line and get the feeling of speed that I was kind of envisioning with it was satisfying.
Matt Parker
So the waves didn’t have to be good, and my surfing didn’t have to be amazing, and I was still, like, very satisfied and validated and surf-stoked. I was inspired to go make another board and surf more because I wanted to try out these things that I was, um, that I was playing around with. But I did that for years—hundreds, probably a couple thousand boards—before it was even, like, a real business I was doing. I was a designer by trade, and so I was doing, like, graphic design work, and that was kind of what my employment or job focus was, and making boards was like this side—this just kind of creative art project on the side that I could just have fun with. And I could usually, like, sell one to pay for another one and, you know, fund it, you know, put it up like in the used rack at a shop and sell it on consignment. Just turn it over enough to learn the craft without any pressure of having to be a professional at doing it.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. So did your entrepreneurial journey begin with the Album agency?
Matt Parker
Yeah, exactly. So that was—I was running my own business and just doing client work, client design work that way. And, um, building the surfboards and kind of treating it like my own little micro brand was kind of also an extension of the graphic design side. So I was able to kind of like—you know, you’re doing work for clients in industries that you’re not really interested in, you know—and I was like, here’s a chance for me to play around with design and create it and kind of like make this a fun little, like, you know, brand for fun without any, you know, strings attached.
Michael Frampton
And what inspired you to make the leap? To turn the surfboards into the main business?
Matt Parker
Uh, there was just—well, I was doing it at night. So I would be working in the day—like, client work and, um, designing and getting projects done. And then I’d go home and have dinner with the family and then put the little kids to bed and go in my garage or go in my backyard and shape at night. And I was doing this a lot. So I was working a lot—I was working a full-time-plus job and then shaping on the side. And demand just kind of like, you know—we were just kind of—we would get out—you know, I was making boards that were probably interesting and that resonated with other people that they hadn’t seen either. And there was something unique about what we were doing. And so, um, the age of when we are, you know, in this last 15 years where things are just more accessible and people can find you easier—it just kind of—the awareness of what I was doing got out there probably faster than if it was 30 years ago. No—the people in my little community would have known. But then, so then people would just want to order a board, and then that just kind of gets to this, uh, point where the demand kind of exceeds the time on the other side. And so I just kind of realized like, oh, there’s, uh—I think by that point, too, I had made enough boards and had enough awareness of just the surf industry and kind of where things were, that you could kind of see opportunities or openings in the market. And like, here we have something different to say, and there’s people that are interested in what we’re doing. So yeah, let’s make a little run at it.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Well, you mentioned supply and demand—I mean, that is why business exists. So obviously the culture is changing. You know, people are more interested in, uh, you know, different shapes. And, uh, I would say a higher level of longevity—you get a much more longevity out of a surfboard like yours as opposed to a pop-out, um, white shortboard for sure.
Matt Parker
I think the other thing too was—I made boards, I made some boards for some good surfers, some pros and things like that, and they worked really well. And so there was kind of like this validation of like, oh, okay. Like, I mean, I knew—like I said, I was competent enough to know that they worked for my level of surfing, and I was having an amazing time and having fun, and my friends were. But then, um, when I made some boards for guys that could surf really well, and then they had more fun on that too, it was kind of like, oh, you know, maybe there really is something a little different that we’re doing that does work and makes sense of like—we should kind of follow that path because there’s something there that hasn’t been tapped into yet, and it resonates with guys that can surf at the highest level. So we should kind of pursue that.
Michael Frampton
Um, that leads me into a question I have about—let’s get into your designs a little bit. So I remember I first got into surfing fish surfboards. I had a Christensen fish that I used to surf a lot. And then I remember one day the waves turned on, um, and rising swell. And next thing you know, I’m surfing almost double overhead waves. And I find, man, to be able to surf that fish in those real good solid waves, I would have to move my feet closer to the inside rail to do a bottom turn, and then I go up to do a top turn—it would just slide outside. This is not the right surfboard. But at the same time, I don’t want to be surfing a high-performance shortboard. And then you look at someone like Josh Kerr surfing the Twinsman or the, um, Insanity—I think it is—in the Mentawais in double overhead waves, getting barreled and doing airs on what is, I guess, hybrid or alternative high-performance shape. Now, is that the kind of board that only he can ride in those waves? Or is it designed so that anyone can have a good time in those overseas waves?
Matt Parker
Well, I think there's a misnomer. To me, there was always a misnomer in the marketplace that high-performance shortboards are for like "real" surfing and alternative boards are just, you know, for fun or whatever. And, um, I think if you look at the trajectory of surfboards from, you know, longboards, logs up into the early 60s, mid-60s, to how quickly it progressed and revolutionized—like what people were riding in such a short window of time—there's so many, um, like, design steps along the way and different types of boards along the way that, like, didn't get their full, uh, fleshing out. Right? So there's a lot of ideas in that time. And I—I mean, twin fins are a perfect example of that. Like, where twin fins were really at like their height from, you know, '78 to '81 or something like that, or, you know, '77—like, what is it? Three or four years or something like that, where twin fins were like the high-performance little hot-dog board that people were riding. And that was with kind of like—I mean, nowadays, like that window of time is a blink. You know, three years—it's like most of us have boards that we've surfed for five, six, eight years. You know what I mean? So three years is nothing. And so, you know, you just see like, oh, the fins they were riding—they didn't have enough time to develop the right fins for them. And they didn't have enough time to think about fin placement and designing the rail shape and bottom contour to fit where that goes and what type of wave that needs to be surfed in and what blanks were available and different glassing layups and all that.
Matt Parker
It was just too fast. And so, um, I've always felt like, um, alternative boards—twin fins—are not like a cop-out of, "I'm just going to screw around." Like, it's like any sort of design, any place I'm going to take a surfboard, there's an intended performance or design intention for that concept. And so the concept is meant to perform at a high level. It's just a different way of doing it. And, um, and so like with Josh, those boards—like, he has more fun and more freedom, more speed. They're easier to turn on a twin fin, you know, and so if you can make them and design it to be able to handle any type of wave, they're certainly obviously capable and validated by him and others in those types of waves. And so it's just a matter of backing it, backing the concept and then proving the concept and then iterating the idea and the concept enough to prove it out and refine it and get it right so that it actually does work in those types of waves.
Matt Parker
But I think sometimes when, like, you know, shapers or whatever—if they're focused on one thing, if they're focused on high-performance shortboards, their version of a twin fin or a fish is not the main design intention. It's almost like a little—it’s like a spin-off of their shortboard idea. And it's like they take their shortboard idea and they kind of fatten it a little bit and just put two fins in it instead of three and, you know, maybe make it a swallowtail. We'll call it the alternative board. And to me, I'm more focused on the concept of a high-performance twin fin that maybe surfs better or is more of an advantage than a shortboard would be in those waves. And so it's like, how would I design it? Where do the fins go? What does that mean for the bottom contour? Like, what dimensions are we talking about? You know? And so there's—like the funnest thing about surfing is there's so many variables in the types of waves, in the swell and the wind conditions and the interval and where you're surfing, the type of surfing you want to do. And so there's kind of like these endless rabbit holes of design and conceptual thinking you can go down and create whatever. And it's so fun too, because I mean, I think surfers should be very grateful and realize how fortunate that we all are.
Michael Frampton
That we—we—we...
Matt Parker
Um, participate in this pursuit where we can make all sorts of different things all the time. I mean, if you're like, if you're driving or you're skiing or whatever it is, it's much more difficult to—you're not going to go make ten different concepts of skis that you're going to go try out every different time you go skiing. But with surfboards, you can make—you know, I can go surf today, have a session out there, get the pros and cons of the board I’m riding. I come back to design something based on that idea, shape it that day, gloss it, and be surfing something next week.
Michael Frampton
Mmm.
Matt Parker
Something that I was intending to design for. That’s just like—it’s just a cool thing that we all kind of—and surfing is small enough, the surf industry is small enough that if you're motivated, you can have access to any of that. It's relatively—for what that is, for the access to that kind of R&D and design options for different types of boards—it’s relatively inexpensive. Not super cost-prohibitive. You know, if you're into it, if you're committed to it, it's affordable enough. You can—you know...
Michael Frampton
Mhm. Yeah, I think the importance of a quiver is... yeah, I mean, I don’t know whether that’s why you chose the name Album, but you know, it makes me think of a good album like Pearl Jam Ten, which is ten really good songs, all with different moods but still the same album. You know, you can sit—you can sit down and listen to the album, or you can sit down and listen to one song. And I almost see a surfboard quiver as like that. It’s—you know, has ten surfboards that are for you, but for the different types of moods and the waves that you’re surfing. But it does make me think, because there’s also that Swiss Army knife surfboard that kind of does pretty good in most waves and tends to excel in sort of head-high good waves, for sure. What’s that—what’s that surfboard for you within your quiver? What would that Swiss Army knife board be?
Matt Parker
Well, that would probably be like a board I would travel with, right? Because you're—something that you would have that you'd want to have versatility for. And that would probably be like Victor’s model, like a Banana Bunch. It's like a quad—asymmetrical quad. It's kind of a hybrid. It's definitely a performance board, but it definitely is easier to go fast. And it paddles a little bit better. And it turns super easy. And it’s versatile in a lot of kinds of waves. Um, it's probably something like that. Um, honestly, if you have the right mindset though, almost any board in your quiver should be able to fill that slot, I think.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, that’s a good point.
Matt Parker
Yep. It's all—I mean, to me there's, um, you know, sometimes—we all do it—where no matter what board you're surfing, people try to surf the same way, right? They have like their, "This is the way I bottom turn. This is the turn I do. This is my little re-entry." And you'll watch them out there, and it doesn't matter if they're riding their fish or mid-length or shortboard or whatever it is, they kind of surf the same. And, uh, that's fine. That's totally fine. But I think it's good to be a little bit more open to what the board wants to do and the type of surfing that board is going to allow you to do and how it might open up the kind of surfing you do and the enjoyment you get out of that kind of surfing, so that it makes you a little bit more versatile in what your approach is like. Victor Bernardo, who rides for us, is a really good example of that because I think a lot of times people, when they’re building a quiver, they are a little bit too narrow in scope or what range they’re going for. Like, it happens all the time where I’ll have people that—they kind of—they want their fish and their shortboard and their twin fin and everything to all be within like a little volume range. Like, "Here’s my liter, here's the liter I ride, and my boards need to be within 30 to 31.5 liters."
Matt Parker
And they try to fit all their boards—and it's like, I think you're missing out if you're thinking about it in that way. So Victor is this perfect example because he's a young man, 26, 27 years old, a highest-level professional surfer, can surf as well as anybody in the world. Competed on the show, did all that stuff, right? But if you look at his quiver, it is like—from 5'0" to 8'0" and everything in between. I mean, obviously, he has access to a lot of boards, which helps. It makes it easy to ride a lot of stuff. But still, his mindset is like—if you were just talking about what volume he rides, he rides from 29 liters to 42 liters. You know what I mean? So his range is like this, and these are all different types of what I would call performance boards. So even yesterday—or this week—we were in Hawaii.
Matt Parker
He's still there right now, but we were on the North Shore this past week, and he was riding a 6'8" Bungee round tail, which is—his normal version is like a 5'8" or 5'9", and he was riding the 6'8" round tail version that was plus volume. It was actually one of Brendan Margieson’s boards that Margo left there in Hawaii. When Margo went back to Australia, Victor took it out and got a couple of amazing waves at Pipe, you know, on that board. And so it's just—definitely not limiting his performance—actually enhancing his performance because it was something unique that he wouldn’t have maybe taken out normally, but it just kind of opened up his surfing. And I think if you remain a little bit more open—open to what the board wants to do and what the waves are asking you to do—you will just have more fun. Yeah. Surfing gets to, like you were saying just now, like it started, right? When you're riding the glider and then you go jump onto your shortboard, your surfing is better because your fundamentals are better. Your timing is a little different. You know, your mindset is a little different.
Michael Frampton
So yeah, I think every board you ride opens up—you have to read the waves a little differently and look for different lines. And like you said, your timing has to be better, or maybe it can be more lax, or you're looking for a different type of wave or whatever. So I think it really just helps you to read the ocean better. I think that's the main reason why different surfboards can improve your surfing when you jump back on your favorite board—because you just read the wave with more detail. Riding that glider changed my realization of how big and how fast of a section I can actually make because those boards go ridiculously fast. Um, yeah. And I surprised myself many times with what I could—what section I could get around. And that literally translated to surfing other boards. I'm going to try and make that section. I'm going to get a bit lower and stay on the whitewash a bit longer. And lo and behold, surfing that big, crazy board just had me making different types of waves and changing my whole perspective on reading the ocean. Um, it sounds like—I agree with that—it sounds like Victor needs to go longer as well.
Matt Parker
He does. He rides bigger. But I think the point of a quiver is to make you surf as much as possible. So no matter what the waves are, you have the right board to have fun that day. And that's really the— to me—the thing that improves you as a surfer the most is water time. So if you're surfing a lot, if you're surfing more days than you're not, you're going to get better. You read the ocean better, your timing is better, your strength, your paddle strength is better. All that stuff kind of comes into play the more you surf. And so if you have a quiver that motivates you to want to surf and makes you—kind of no matter what the waves are—you're like, "Oh, I'm stoked to go out today because I have the right board," then you're going to have more fun. And you see those guys struggling and you're having fun and they're miserable. It's like, oh yeah, you made the right choice, and you have the right board to just get out in the water a lot.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, I think you nailed it. That is the point of a quiver. So it's as simple as that. And you're right. I mean, the best thing that ultimately you can do for your surfing is not only to surf more, but to surf more waves. And if you're on the right surfboard for the condition, you are going to catch more waves. When it's knee-high here at my local point break and there's no one out, I'm literally giddy because I have an 11-foot Josh Hall and no one can compete with that because no one...
Matt Parker
How did you ship that thing to New Zealand? How did you get that point there? That's what I want to know.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, I know. It...
Matt Parker
Just...
Michael Frampton
I filled a container with all of my stuff. So I've got—I’ve got my Wayne Rich 9'8" and everything. Everything here. So how—how would you, if I just asked you an open question, what is a surfboard?
Matt Parker
Uh, well, there's the—you know, it's foam and fiberglass and resin and all that, right? Uh, but I think it's just—it’s a tool to allow you to go ride the waves. So whatever that is, it comes in many forms, that's for sure. Yeah. Uh, I think it's—depending on, you know, a surfboard for Pipeline, like where we were at last week, is not a surfboard for Upper Trestles, where I surf most every other day. Very, very different tools for those different types of waves. And so I think it's a tool that gets you to catch a wave and ride a wave. Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Simple. How would you describe your current relationship with surfing and the ocean, and how has it evolved over the years?
Matt Parker
Um, I surf a lot. To me, it's the most important thing in my job as a designer and shaper and surfboard manufacturer—is being in the water as much as I can. So I surf five or six days a week. And, uh, it's kind of a daily ritual, getting out there. And so I surf a lot. Um, I'm 47 now, so I'm definitely past my peak of, uh—my better—my best days are behind me as far as strength and ability level and all that kind of stuff. But I definitely have more fun surfing now than I ever have in my life. And, uh, I get more enjoyment out of it and I have a better perspective on it. And so, um, you just appreciate different things about sessions that you skipped and you missed when you're young and immature. And so, you know, with age comes wisdom. And so I definitely—yeah, I appreciate it. Every session I go out I just have a better mindset for just appreciating the opportunity to go out and surf. I live in a place where I have things like surfboards to ride and just waves most every day that are rideable. It's a real blessing. So I think that my mindset makes me appreciate it more now than ever. So. Mhm.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, I like that. I'm going to go back to—so we talked about the Swiss Army, the single board. What if you could choose three boards to travel with or just to have, what would those three boards be?
Matt Parker
It's—you know it's funny, because we’re talking about quivers, right? And I'm actually like—I don’t have a great quiver because I don’t have boards I hold on to that long. The problem for me is that I'm always doing R&D and working on new models and new boards. And so it’s ever-changing. So my answer would probably be that if you asked me next month, it would probably be different than it would be a month ago. So it changes all the time. But if I was going to—like where we live—going down to Mexico, go down there all the time and surf the points, I would for sure take some form of a fish. I've been riding a version of Asher Pacey's Sunstone with a little hip, and I’ve been riding it as a quad a bunch lately, and I’ve been riding it with twin fin, like upright twin fins in the lead boxes, and little small trailers in the quad trailer boxes, and been having a good old time on that. So I would definitely bring one of those. I’d probably bring a bigger board, like one of Margo’s models—a Vesper or a Delma—which is like a stretched out, kind of like a slot channel, concave, bonzer-ish bottom quad. I'd definitely bring one of those. I can hang in good surf too, and they're really nimble, easy to turn for a big board. I'll ride those 6'8" to 7'2", 7'4", 7'6". I have an 8'0" I take out on that all the time. Definitely take that. And then I’d probably take something asymmetrical, some sort of a Disorder model, which is like my high-performance kind of like foiled rails, outline-shifted, or a Bungee like I was saying—probably something to at least, like, cover the bases.
Michael Frampton
Okay, cool. I'm taking a Whale Shark, a Vesper, and an Insanity.
Matt Parker
Oh, that’s good. That’s a good call too. The Whale Shark would tick that glider box for you for sure. Uh, so I...
Michael Frampton
Want one so bad just by reading the description. That’s it.
Matt Parker
Uh...
Matt Parker
When you're talking about that buildup of that section and you're just in so early and you have fun—for me, the fun of those boards is that kinetic energy of, like, the speed building. Like, you build the speed and maintain the speed and build the speed some more. And it’s just a very satisfying feeling. It’s just me. And I—we make longboards and I enjoy longboarding, but I prefer it—if I'm riding a big board—I prefer a glider or a big twin like a Whale Shark. I have a little bit more fun just because I probably surf more off the back foot than I do in a walking-the-nose and all that kind of stuff.
Michael Frampton
So yeah. Same. Yeah. It's amazing if you got your—if you're used to it and you get your timing right, you can step back on an 11-foot board and do a cutback. And, like, it’s so satisfying. And you're right, the maintenance of the momentum of one of those big boards is such an incredible feeling. And it's amazing what sections you can make. And I've had some of the longest rides ever, oh, I bet, on what most people would see as unmakeable waves just by taking that high line and trusting it. It’s, uh—yeah, it's an incredible feeling.
Matt Parker
Riding gliders is like its own form of riding a foil board. It's like you’re almost—ride those boards, you ride those waves that, um, you know, no one else can really get into depth. Length of ride is insane on those.
Michael Frampton
And it’s, um—Joel Tudor says it’s the ultimate goal, right? Is Skip Frye.
Matt Parker
Oh, yeah. For sure.
Michael Frampton
It's the end game.
Michael Frampton
Uh, but it's—I mean, I've surfed that board in—I was a few years ago, we had it in Malibu, there's a Little Dume. There's an outer reef that breaks when you get those 18-second northwest swells. I took my glider out there and it was double overhead barreling, and I was like, wow, maybe I shouldn’t have brought this. But I managed to get such a high line and set the rail so early that I could just avoid the barrel and still have—and still catch the waves and have such a rad time. So they're such versatile boards if you know how to surf them.
Matt Parker
And you're doing your own step-offs.
Michael Frampton
Basically.
Matt Parker
Oh, it is towed-in out the back. Yeah. It's just like being able to paddle that fast. It's amazing.
Michael Frampton
Oh yeah. And that's the thing. You can paddle around so much. That’s what I like about them so much too. If you can see a section over there, you can just paddle over to it.
Matt Parker
And that board's going to last you forever. Twenty years from now, you'll still be surfing with it. You'll have that—you’ll have that thing forever. Yeah. Which is special.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Was that—so obviously it sounds like you've experienced riding—was that the inspiration for the Whale Shark? Riding gliders?
Matt Parker
Yeah. Just—just because, like I was saying, I'm not a longboarder that's walking on the nose. And, you know, I’m more into just trim and glide and that feeling. And obviously you want to have a board that you can ride for fun on those longboard days when it’s really small and it's just soft and just little open faces. And so that was my preference, was to ride that style of board. And so it was—for me, it's like an extension of the fish. Obviously it’s taking a 5'6" fish and making it 10'6" and so on. So the same kind of principle is a little bit—for me, it’s just putting it with a really long rail and with a different, you know, sort of rocker to fit that wave face.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Just a side note for listeners—if you haven't ridden a longboard or a log, don't go out and buy a glider. Get used to a longboard first, because they are a lot of surfboard, and if you don't know how to ride them, you're just going to hurt someone.
Matt Parker
Your 9'4" was a perfect little entry point.
Michael Frampton
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Now, soft tops—I wanted to ask you about soft tops. You guys are making soft tops. I haven’t seen or touched or ridden one of your soft tops, but they look quite different to the Costco or the INT-style ones. What’s your point of difference with soft tops?
Matt Parker
We make them in a few different places. We have some that we make that are like injected foam. And so it’s where we actually took my shaped board and we made a mold—I shaped a few boards and we made molds off of these finished shaped boards. And that allows you to really put in design detail into that mold. And so like one of them has a little channel bottom, you can put real fin boxes in them. They're obviously not high-performance because they're foamies, you know what I mean? But there's a different mindset—there’s the right day for that, even if you surf well. Obviously for beginners they’re great because you can surf them into the sand and they just float, easy to catch waves. They’re kind of a little bit slower, so the pacing of them kind of matches the wave when you’re just kind of learning to ride the trim and ride the speed of the wave. So for people learning, it’s great. But for people that know how to surf, it's like—those days when it’s closing out and it’s on the sand, or you just want to go out and have fun and fool around, it’s something different. So those ones we do—and those are made in the U.S.—and there's just like injection foam molded soft tops.
Matt Parker
And then we also make some in Peru that are by the surfers in Peru, which are pretty sick. They’ve got a foam core and they have stringers, and they're kind of like a slick bottom, like some of the soft tops you see. But they actually have real shape and they have a better flex to them, and there’s real fin boxes. And those are kind of like a cool in-between where if you're like a kid or you're someone who’s kind of progressing, it’s a great board to kind of progress on because you can actually turn them and you can surf them pretty decently. And they’re less, you know, less expensive and all that. They’re made in a surf country by surfers, which is pretty cool.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, cool. Yeah, I’ve got a 9'6" INT that I absolutely love. Um, and I've always...
Matt Parker
Ah, INTs got really good.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Yeah. And it lasted quite a while actually. It's still going. I actually surfed it every day when I was doing lessons for a long time, and then would just end up catching loads of waves on it. I love them so much because it’s a boat, right? The 9'6" INT—it’s a thick, big surfboard, but I think because it flexes so much, you can ride it in lots of different types of waves and actually really turn it much easier than the same amount of surfboard if it was a stiff sort of... Is that why? And then you watch Jamie O'Brien surf them at Pipe, like...
Matt Parker
Well, it’s just funny.
Matt Parker
Sometimes it looks like he has the right board for them, which is insane. He’s obviously a...
Matt Parker
Freak, but that’s...
Matt Parker
But to me the point of it is, it’s like—it’s a mindset thing. When you’re riding those boards, you’re not—you’re definitely not trying to win a contest when you're riding one of those. You're definitely going out there to have fun and kind of goof around, which is really good. It’s a good reset for surfing, I think, as you kind of, you know—you can’t try too hard. We just...
Matt Parker
Go out there and...
Matt Parker
It’s much easier to kind of give a wave away to someone else. You’re not going to be back-paddling people to get waves when you're on those. And so it's just a good mindset to reset and have fun on them. And that’s why it’s amazing how many sessions you have on those where you have a lot of fun, because your mindset is in a good place and you’re not overdoing it, you’re not overcooking it, and you have better perspective.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, yeah. I guess you're not too worried about it cracking if you mistime something close to the sand or the board hits you a little bit—it’s not as bad. Yeah, I’ve always enjoyed it. I’ve always enjoyed the novelty of riding a soft top. And it’s stoked to see you guys making some more refined-looking ones.
Matt Parker
Yeah. I mean, the idea is obviously still there. The point is that they’re soft tops. But if we can kind of come at it from a different angle—there’s no need for us to go to the same factory that Wavestorm or Catch Surf makes and then just put different graphics on a soft top. Those already exist, right? We don’t need to just have our... That’s just another commodity. We don’t need to make another one of those. But if we can make something that’s a little unique or that offers something different from everything else that’s out there, and it gives a different feeling and we explore different things, then cool—we’ll try it out and we’ll give it a go.
Michael Frampton
Um, cool. Well, Matt, thank you so much for your time. I’ve got one more question I want to leave you with before we sign off, which is—what’s your best and worst surf advice that you ever received?
Matt Parker
Yeah. I would say—me too. But the worst would be...
Matt Parker
I mean, the...
Matt Parker
Best would definitely be, like we’ve been talking about, is like—I’ve said this before. This is kind of my running theme a little bit, as far as—like, choose the board. You know, when you're going to decide what you’re going to ride, like think about if there was no one else on the beach and no one else was out in the water—like you’re talking about that day when you're happy and you’re the only one out—what would you actually ride? What do you actually really have the most fun surfing on? And that could be a shortboard. It could be a high-performance shortboard. You could be—that’s the day you take it out because you're not, you know, you're kind of kooky on it but you want to get good, and that's what you want to get out of it. But to me, it’s like—pick the board that... Don’t do it for the approval of others. You know, like, choose what you really want to ride and what you really want to experience and just go do that and go have fun. And I think you'll have the most fun.
Matt Parker
Um, I’m trying to think, like what... maybe that, um, you need to have an epoxy board for a wave pool. That’s the worst.
Matt Parker
That’s—that’s it. I don’t know how applicable that is, but...
Michael Frampton
I think it's going to be more and more applicable very soon.
Matt Parker
Well, I think—and maybe that goes in line with what I think—there are in surfing... there shouldn’t be hard and fast rules. You know, sometimes there’s like these perceptions and there’s hard and fast rules, like this is what you’ve got to do and this is the way you’ve got to do it. And I don’t like... Surfing doesn’t have to—like who says? Who?
Matt Parker
It’s that way.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. There’s a famous surfer—I can't remember, is it Kelly Slater? I think he surfs a door.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. You can—you can surf anything. Even an old door.
Matt Parker
Exactly. Exactly. I know—a table. I think he surfs a table, like upside down.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And isn't there a video with Taj Burrow and Chris Ward all surfing all sorts of objects? Yeah. So yeah, there’s no rules, right?
Matt Parker
Like, why are we doing this? What are we doing this for? We want to have fun. Just be out in the ocean.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Exactly. Uh, well, Matt, thank you so much for your time, man. Appreciate it.
Matt Parker
Yeah.
Matt Parker
Great to chat with you. Cool.
Michael Frampton
All right. Simple as that. Thanks, man.
Matt Parker
Yeah. Good to meet you.
Michael Frampton
You too.
Matt Parker - Choosing Boards and Breaking Surfing Rules
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