100 Devon Howard-Understanding the Connection Between Form and Style in Surfing
Is your surfing stylish—or just frantic? Discover why true style isn’t about hand placement or pose, but something far deeper that starts with your form.
In this milestone 100th episode, surf legend Devon Howard breaks down one of surfing’s most misunderstood concepts—style. Drawing parallels to art, gymnastics, and even ancient sculpture, Devon explains how timeless, functional form—not forced flair—is the path to smoother, more satisfying surfing.
Learn how efficient body mechanics create stylish surfing, even without trying
Understand the subtle but powerful difference between natural style and contrived movement
Discover why relaxed posture and patience—not aggression—unlock flow, trim, and that elusive “feel” of great surfing
Listen now to elevate your surf experience with expert insights into how style is born from form—and how you can start embodying both in the lineup.
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Linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/devon-howard-a4b2a613/.
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Key Points
Style in surfing is discussed, focusing on its subjective nature and the difficulty in defining it, with references to famous surfers like Joel Tudor and Joel Parkinson.
A conversation on the importance of style in surfing, drawing parallels with other artistic expressions like gymnastics, dance, and bullfighting, highlighting the timeless human attraction to beauty.
The evolution of style in surfing, from the 1960s to the modern era, is explored, discussing how competition surfing has influenced the emphasis on style versus radical maneuvers.
A debate on whether surfers should prioritize style over radical maneuvers, with an emphasis on the importance of maintaining good form and efficient surfing techniques.
The significance of style in longboard surfing competitions, where criteria include style, flow, and grace, is discussed, along with the challenges of training judges to evaluate these subjective qualities.
The relationship between good form and style in surfing is highlighted, emphasizing that efficient form naturally leads to stylish surfing, much like in other sports such as golf and baseball.
Advice is given on improving surfing style by focusing on form, being patient, and not rushing maneuvers, with an emphasis on the psychological and physiological benefits of adopting a relaxed and centered posture.
Outline
Podcast Introduction and Episode Milestone
Michael Frampson, the host of the Surf Mastery Podcast, introduces episode 100, a milestone for the podcast.
Michael mentions the revamped website, surfmastery.com, which features a free PDF listing the top five tips from the Surf Mastery podcast.
The special guest for this episode is Devon Howard, who has appeared in previous episodes discussing longboarding, nose riding, mid-lengths, and twin fins.
Feedback and Support
Michael encourages listeners to provide feedback on the show by emailing Mike@surfmastery.com, DMing on Instagram, or leaving a comment under the episode's visual.
Listeners are also encouraged to support Devon Howard by following his Instagram.
Devon Howard's Background
Devon Howard is currently working with Channel Islands in Santa Barbara, contributing to new surfboard models.
Grateful Dead Debate
Michael and Devon discuss the debate between Britt Merrick and Chaz Smith about the Grateful Dead.
Devon expresses indifference towards the Grateful Dead's music but acknowledges the strong case made by Britt Merrick for their cultural significance.
The conversation highlights the difference between experiencing the Grateful Dead live versus listening to them on Spotify.
Other Live Performances
Devon mentions Radiohead and James Brown as bands that are better experienced live.
Michael shares his appreciation for Amp Fiddler's live performances and recommends catching the Action New Zealand Band live in Santa Barbara.
Origin and Evolution of the Word 'Style'
Michael provides a summary of the etymology of the word 'style', tracing its evolution from a writing instrument to a manner of expression and eventually to a distinctive mode of dress.
The discussion touches on the word's application in various contexts, including surfing.
Style in Surfing
Devon defines style in surfing as a measure of good surfing and a marker of one's expression of surfing.
The conversation explores the subjective nature of style, ranging from beauty to contrived and non-functional elements.
Michael and Devon discuss the importance of style in surfing, relating it to efficiency, grace, and form.
Style vs. Radical Surfing
The discussion contrasts style with radical surfing, noting that some surfers prioritize radical maneuvers over style.
Examples of stylish surfers include Joel Parkinson, Kelly Slater, and Gabriel Medina, while Adriano D'Souza is mentioned as an example of a surfer with less emphasis on style.
Technical Aspects of Style
Devon explains that good style is often a result of good form, which allows for efficient and seamless surfing.
The conversation highlights the importance of relaxation, proper body positioning, and maintaining trim speed for optimal performance.
Devon emphasizes that style should not be contrived but should naturally follow from good form and technique.
Style in Competition Surfing
The discussion touches on the role of style in competition surfing, noting that while style was once a given, it has become less emphasized in recent decades.
Devon mentions the inclusion of style, flow, and grace in the criteria for longboard surfing competitions.
The conversation explores the potential for incorporating style more formally into shortboard competition criteria.
Efficiency and Neurological Efficiency
Michael shares an example of how infants learn to stand efficiently due to their weakness, and how athletes maintain this efficiency for optimal form.
The discussion highlights the importance of joint centration and proper bone stacking for efficient movement and force transfer.
Feeling Good Style
Devon believes that good style can be felt, describing moments where the turn or movement feels right and looks good.
The conversation emphasizes the connection between feeling good style and the overall surfing experience, including the reward and satisfaction derived from dedicated practice and learning.
Contrived vs. Natural Style
Devon distinguishes between contrived style, where surfers try to present a certain look, and natural style, which arises from functional form and technique.
The conversation advises against rushing surfing and emphasizes the importance of patience, proper form, and not forcing style.
Transcription
Devon Howard
When I—when I often think about style, there's always like—there's two camps. There's the people that get it, and style is usually—it's like, you know it when you see it. I said, how do you know that something's pornographic versus art or beauty? And a lot of times the answer is, well, you know when you see it. You know something is gross or smut as opposed to art.
Michael Frampton
Welcome back to the Surf Mastery Podcast. I am your host, Michael Frampton, and this is episode 100 of the podcast. A little bit of a milestone. Special guest for this episode. And we've also revamped the website, surfmastery.com, and on the front page of that website is a free PDF listing the top five tips from the Surf Mastery Podcast. So go to surfmastery.com and you can download that PDF for free. Today's guest—well, I was looking back through all the stats on this podcast, and the most downloaded episodes have been from Devon Howard, so it made sense to have him on episode 100. And so you can go back and listen to—he first appeared on the show, uh, episode 41, discussing longboarding and nose riding. Then it was back in, uh, episode 70. Uh, we talked about mid-lengths. In episode 86, it was twin fins. And today in episode 100, Devon Howard joins us again to discuss style. Style is something that is—it's fundamental. It's paramount for every type of surfing that is done, from traditional longboarding all the way through to high performance shortboarding. All of the greats, all of the most memorable surfers, have good style. They are stylish—from Joel Tudor in traditional longboarding through to Joel Parkinson as a high-performance, competitive shortboarder. Tom Curren, uh, mid-lengths and twin fins. You got Torren Martyn.
Michael Frampton
And of course, Devon Howard himself is a very stylish surfer. He's very smooth, very graceful on a longboard, on a mid-length, and a twin fin. We've even seen some footage of him riding, uh, three thrusters out there on his Instagram. And his style, his technique, his gracefulness runs throughout his surfing. So a perfect topic for us to discuss in episode 100. So I would love to hear your feedback on the show in general—the last 100 episodes and of course this episode. Go ahead, send us an email: mike@surfmastery.com. Or you can DM me on Instagram or leave a comment under the, uh, the visual for this episode. And of course, support Devon Howard. Give his Instagram a follow. And of course, he's, uh, joining us from the Channel Islands office in Santa Barbara. Uh, Devon is currently working with Channel Islands—working on some new surfboard models as well. Some of the most popular boards recently he's been a part of. So without further ado, I shall fade in my conversation with Devon Howard. I actually see a lot of agreement between Brett and Chaz on this subject. Yeah, yeah, because there are—there are things, right, that you go to a Grateful Dead concert and you experience the show and the vibe—you don't really listen to them on Spotify.
Devon Howard
Yeah. It's—it's something to be enjoyed live.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. There's a certain style and vibe to them, I think, that come across differently in person than it does. And also the audience they sort of draw in. Yeah. Rather to the music on Spotify right there.
Devon Howard
There are two bands that I think are better live as well, which—I think Radiohead is better live. I like Radiohead. I think a lot of their albums are great. I've been to a few of their shows that I think—no, this is 10 or 15 years ago. I don't know if that's still the case, but at the time when they were really peaking, they were insane live. And then I also saw James Brown live. Oh, wow. 25 years ago. And that was incredible. Mhm. I mean, what a showman.
Michael Frampton
Yes. Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, there's the Radiohead Live from the Basement—um, unbelievable. Like, gives you—I can't remember what album it is—they play in full from their studio, basement studio, and it just makes you appreciate them on a whole other level. Yeah. Just—just by watching that on YouTube, not even being there. Well, yeah. Um, I remember seeing a gentleman called Amp Fiddler, another one of the best live acts I ever saw. Um, gave me a new appreciation of his music. He's sort of new age funk slash reggae. Um, interesting music. Yeah. Catch a Fire. Catch a Fire—they're doing a tour through California at the moment. They're another unbelievable band live. Their live performance and sound is bigger than their studio albums. I think they’re actually a New Zealand band. You get a chance to see them—they often play in Santa Barbara. I forget the venue name. It's like a 500-capacity venue in Santa Barbara. They always play there.
Devon Howard
Is that the Bowl? I'm not sure.
Michael Frampton
Can't remember.
Devon Howard
Anyway, a lot of venues there, but yeah.
Michael Frampton
Style. Let's talk about style. Do you—yeah, what would—what do you—know the origin of the word?
Devon Howard
Um, I don't, but I'd imagine. Uh—well, I hope you did some research on it. Is it, um—the Latin word? Is it—Greek? Is it—where does it come from?
Michael Frampton
Let me sort of summarize from Etymology Online. From the early 14th century, it started out as a writing instrument—pen or stylus—a piece of written discourse or narrative, characteristic rhetorical mode of an author, a manner or mode of expression, a way of life, behavior. Then the word sort of transformed—the evolution of the word, uh, from writing tool went into writing, into manner of writing, into mode of expression in writing of a particular writer or author. Um, and then it was in the 1500s—it was paired with the word "substance," which basically meant back then, divine part or essence. That sort of gave the word a deeper meaning, including finer appearance or dashing character. Um, then it was—the word then went into an artist's particular mode or form of skilled presentation. That was later extended into athletics. Then by the 1800s it was "distinctive or characteristic mode of dress." Obviously it was more in regards to fashion. Um, and so there's a little bit of a history of the word. So I think there's a lot of depth to that. And it's certainly—it's very apt for surfing. A lot of those meanings, I think. Yes. Tell me what you think about style and how important it is.
Devon Howard
Well, style is, um—from my personal experience growing up, it was a—it was a measure of good surfing. And, um, it was a marker of, like, one's own presentation of their expression of surfing. Uh, I don't want to cheapen it by, I guess, using the word "brand," like your brand of surfing, but, um, everyone has their own form of expression. And style is—oftentimes I see style as making the difficult look easy. And my own belief in, you know, just absorbing what was around me when I was a kid—you know, we're humans. We sort of mimic and imitate what's around us. I haven't innovated anything really at all. I've just looked at what's around. And you take bits and pieces. First you take it from your parents, of course. And then as you get out in the world, it's like what's going on around you. And in San Diego, where I grew up—and I think this was the same in many other surf cities in not only the US but the world—in the 80s, the older surfers, 10 to 20 years older than you, were style-focused as opposed to this idea of ripping or tearing something apart and doing it with reckless abandon. That was something that started getting more popular as I was a kid. So I was sort of born into this era where one thing was kind of falling out of favor, and this other form of surfing was gaining popularity. And—sorry, that was kind of a muddled answer, but I think it's one of the most difficult subjects in surfing to discuss or to describe because it's so subjective. And it comes—the word style comes with a lot of different ideas to people, ranging from beauty to something that's very contrived and nonfunctional.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. I mean, the word "style" itself has—as you sort of addressed—a lot of meanings. Like, everyone has their own unique style, you could say, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are stylish. So when we think of stylish surfers, we do—we think of beauty and grace and flow. And I think it is related to that, and it's related to efficiency, right? I mean, Rob Machado comes to mind. I think he's sort of an incredibly stylish surfer, but he also fits in that modern category—category of radical. Yeah, he encompasses both. And I mean, world champ Joel Parkinson obviously fit the criteria of competition surfing but remained incredibly smooth and stylish.
Devon Howard
Yeah. Well, you know, I think depending on where you grew up and what culture you came from or grew up in, style could also just not be that important. You know, if surfing to you—or just to any individual—is about really pushing as hard as they can with maneuvers and being as radical as they can and, you know, tearing apart a wave—you know, like you think of the Brazilian Storm guys. They're—for years—have been, you know—they're well-deserved. They're incredible athletes. They are highly athletic, and it is explosive maneuvers. And they're acrobats in many ways. For some reason, as that game has gained popularity, some aspects of the presentation have sort of fallen to the wayside. Whereas in gymnastics, presentation and form is still really part of the whole thing. It was never really let go. Like, if you do a floor routine in gymnastics, or let's say dance or anything like that—they're doing really kind of athletic, powerful moves, but they also keep the form. And I don't know quite the exact reason, but that sort of started falling out of favor in surfing. Mostly because what drives our conversations oftentimes revolves around competition surfing. Like, competition surfing drives a lot of the media narratives. Let’s say—who are—like, where do we get our information from? It’s driven by the sell to whatever extent that is. Stab and their audience.
Devon Howard
Surfline, kind of, sort of, but they’re more focused on cameras and whatnot. And then most of the magazines have gone out of business. But only ten years ago, a lot of the stories were driven by the personalities and the folks that competed. And there was a mixed bag in there of surfers that had great style, like Joel Parkinson, who you mentioned. I would say Kelly Slater has a good style—it’s a different style, it's his own. And then on the opposite end of that would be like an Adriano de Souza or somebody like that, where he's clearly just incredibly talented, but sort of putting his surfing together in one seamless, fluid motion was not a focus of his. And so it’s been interesting to watch, and the broader conversations of the mainstream—how that’s sort of played out. Back to where I grew up—I grew up on the fringe of all that anyway. So I was riding longboards in the 80s and 90s—that was as fringe as it got. And in that world all through that time, style was still important. Even when folks were trying to emulate shortboard maneuvers on longboards, there was still an emphasis on style. Sorry, I’ll shut up. I don’t know where I’m going with that, but yeah.
Michael Frampton
So I’m just wondering—when you look at—I mean, I think that you mentioned the Brazilian Storm. I think Gabriel Medina is quite stylish. Not all the time, but probably actually more so when you see him freesurf. He sort of—he just seems to be more relaxed when he's not surfing in a competition. And I think that's maybe what separates the—I think that’s a big part of being stylish is you're very calm and you're relaxed. That doesn't necessarily mean you're going slower or that you're even putting less effort in. It's just—maybe you referenced gymnastics. I think a gymnast could do the same routine—they get the same height, the same amount of power—but if one of their runs, they were purposely trying to keep the presentation of themselves relaxed and calm, it would be more visually appealing. Sort of making it look easy.
Devon Howard
Yeah. That’s the—that’s the thing. Making the difficult look easy. Mhm. In the 60s or 50s or whatever, the boards weren't very maneuverable. So, um, clearly the market did—surfing was just people who were stylish and could kind of keep it together. Um, hang on one second. Um, are you hearing a beeping on your end? What? I’m getting messages. Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Is that your phone?
Devon Howard
Yeah. I don't know how to turn off the iMessage on my, uh—oh, it's on the computer. I'm trying to see how to undo this. Is this on?
Michael Frampton
Your phone—a phone or your laptop or your iPad?
Devon Howard
It's on my laptop. Oh, sorry. You're going to have to edit this out. That's all right. I'm just getting, like, every one of them. Don't fuck me up. The client. Claudia, um, do you have any idea how to get rid of iMessage off here? Preferences? Services?
Michael Frampton
That's a good question. I don't—I don't have my, um, I don't have my laptop linked to my phone, so. Yeah.
Devon Howard
Don't do it. Preferences. Let's see.
Michael Frampton
I'd say it'd be under Notifications. Notifications and Focus—it's like a bell symbol.
Devon Howard
On, uh, on the computer itself or on the phone?
Michael Frampton
I'm looking on my laptop.
Devon Howard
Where did you find the notifications? In System Preferences?
Michael Frampton
Okay.
Devon Howard
System Preferences, Notifications. There they are. Look at that.
Michael Frampton
And top right, there's a—there's a button: Allow Notifications. So you can turn that off or on. I'd say that's it.
Devon Howard
Only five messages? There we go. Okay. I want to turn that off. Okay. Apologies for that. Okay. So, um. All right.
Michael Frampton
So where were we? Let me throw out some adjectives that I wrote down after thinking about style a little bit: efficient, graceful, functional, calm, focused, relaxed, grounded, present, fearless—or maybe, better put, courageous. Is there anything you would add to that or you think shouldn't be there?
Devon Howard
Uh, no. I just think it's more about a calm and a gracefulness. It's mostly what it is. And it's just a—it's just the form of your personal expression. I think a lot of the style—you'll see style of folks from a distance—and a lot of ways it matches up to their personality. Right? You'll see someone who's quite busy, a lot of—a lot of kinetic, sort of frantic motions. And—not always the case—but sometimes, like, okay, this person's a little over-caffeinated. In general, you know, they're really mellow, kind of quiet people have this very quiet. Always meet a really quiet surfer with their style, and they're really loud and obnoxious. There's exceptions to the rule, but if you think about it quickly, that's not often the case. And so, um, I think a lot of those adjectives actually work pretty well. Um, I don't—what did you say? Courageous?
Michael Frampton
Yeah.
Devon Howard
I don't really know that that applies to it, really. I don't think it's really much to do with courage other than—well, I was—
Michael Frampton
Thinking that. I was just wondering if that was a better word than fearless.
Devon Howard
Mhm.
Michael Frampton
Because if you—if you look—if you look scared, that's not very stylish, is it?
Devon Howard
No, no. It's very—you're tense. Style. And yeah, I've said to people—I don't do surf coaching—but if I've ever seen someone in the water and it looks like they're struggling, if it's appropriate or sort of convenient, like they're just sort of right there, I'll say, do you—do you mind if I offer some advice? It's usually well received. A lot of times I've said, I think you just relax a little bit. Your body's too tense. Looks bad, but it also screws up your ability to surf, because now it's affected the form. Like you're sort of hunched over and bracing for, like, some sort of impact, where you need to be more relaxed. The arms need to be relaxed. The shoulders should be relaxed. You should be able to sort of sink back into your knees and your hips and let those kind of bend and sort of sit into the board nicely. And so I think, um, what I—what I often think about style—there's always like there's two camps. There's the people that get it and—and style is usually—it's like, you know it when you see it. I said, how do you know that something's pornographic versus art or beauty? And a lot of times the answer is, well, you know when you see it. You know something is gross or smut as opposed to art.
Devon Howard
Like you go into an art gallery and there's naked—you know, images of a naked person. How is that not pornography? And it's like, well, you know when you see it. And it's like style. You sort of know it when you see it. And then you have, um, the other end of that, where people will feel style is just posing and looking cool. Like you're putting your hands in the air to look like Alex Knost or Miki Dora or Rob Machado—whoever. Insert the surfer. You're trying to mimic their hand placement. And sometimes the hand placement provides no real function or value to the ride, other than—it might feel good, I guess—but it's not making you surf better. Um, where I like to—I often will—I will argue or believe that yes, there are people that pose, and that does exist. I grant you that. But good style also brings about really good form. Or I would look at it a different way: really good form pulls along the style into it. So if you have good form—and whether that's in a barrel or a cutback—if your body is doing sort of the right things to make a beautiful, seamless ride easier.
Devon Howard
Um, along with that usually comes a pretty good style. If you don't have a good style, a lot of times the form is really working against your surfing. So, for example, you go to do a cutback and your arm is up and back—frontside—and let's say I'm turning this way, frontside cutback. Well, if my back arm is in the air waving behind me, I'm really struggling to get my body around, and I'm actually having to work really hard for it. Could potentially even injure yourself. So that really hinders your surfing. But if I brought the arm in and dropped it down and then had the arm kind of point toward where I want to go, the rest of my body goes. And it's actually quite easy to do the turn, and consequently, it looks much better. Doesn't look so awkward. Yeah. And this could be said of your front arm. I've seen folks do cutbacks with—I don't know why this happens—but sometimes their front arm is sort of flailing and going behind them over here, or they're extending and reaching too far. So when there's this nice balance of the front and the back hand on the frontside cutback—it looks cool. Hey, that's great. If someone took a photo, yeah, you'd probably put it on the wall.
Devon Howard
Looks pretty good. Looks like Michael Peterson or somebody or whatever. Joel Parkinson. Ethan Ewing would be a really good contemporary example, I guess. And—but when it's all sort of like the form is there, it looks good, but now you're surfing better and the turn is faster and more complete. And also, when you have nice form, you get the board in trim. What I mean by that is—when the board's in trim, it's sort of—if you know anything about sailing—when everything's in alignment with the bow and the sail and the boat is really hitting its top speed, there's nothing really hindering or dragging or fighting against that top trim speed. In surfing, you want to get to the top trim speed, because when you have speed, it's easier to complete maneuvers. It's less work. You go into the maneuvers with speed—you can do a lot better. It's like snowboarding. If anyone's snowboarded, you know that the first few days you're learning, the instructor will say, you just need to get going faster. And you're like, what? No, that's scary. I don't want to go faster. But—well, you're going so slow that that's why you're tumbling and you're catching an edge and you're getting stuck on the hill. Go faster. And then you see this light bulb moment with people. Like, my gosh, well, I should have just been going faster all along.
Devon Howard
It's the same with surfing. You'll see people struggling to get trim speed because their form is so terrible. They're not understanding that the board is not even in trim. The board then noses out, or they're waving their arms. They're—they're shaking their body like this, and they're trying to wiggle and do stuff. And you're watching the board underneath, and the board is just like on a gimbal, just like not getting any trim. It's just stop and go, stop and go. So it's this utter fail, where if the person just relaxed a little bit, relaxed their arms, don't try to flop the body around and just get the idea of even going straight—which is hard to do on a shortboard, clearly—if you're a beginner, you probably shouldn't even be on the floor. It's just going to be a struggle. Yet a board that's medium, like a mid-length or something, or a longboard, where you can kind of stand there and glide and trim, and then you can kind of get that form where your body's relaxed. And, um, so a lot of times, good style, I believe, just comes with the right form, if that makes sense.
Michael Frampton
I totally agree. Yeah. And that's what I think—that's what a surf coach's job is. And then it's—once the person becomes—at first, the new, better form will feel strange and maybe even abnormal and uncomfortable. And it's only once that form becomes ingrained and you become comfortable with it, then it looks stylish. So it's—it's maybe it's a precursor to style, is good form.
Devon Howard
Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Um, another thing that I've thought about a lot in the last several years about style is—it sort of belies the technique or the difficulty of the maneuver. I think if it looks like someone's trying really super hard to do, like, a—let's say, a crazy air or just like the craziest turn where, like, they blow—they, like, blow the tail out and spin the board around and like, oh, whoa, that was insane, that was so difficult. But if you see somebody do a top-speed cutback and they don't lose or drift the fins, and they just go at Mach 20 and just—bam—come up fluid and seamless, you might say, man, that was really smooth. That was really stylish. But you don't often think that that was also really difficult. It's interesting. And I'm not trying to get people to cheer more for the stylist, I guess, but I think it's worth sort of acknowledging that Mikey February or Torren Martyn and some of those things they're doing—we're drawn to them because they're beautiful, which is undeniable. But it's also interesting to think that these are the highest level people at the very upper echelon, at the top peak of ability, of sphere, fame. And there's something to be learned there—to not just only acknowledge and only see the style, which is great.
Devon Howard
I love that. I'll watch that stuff all day long, but to, like, hit the rewind button and look at what they're doing and how on-rail that board is and how difficult it is to hold the line and not lose it. Because a lot of times, especially in performance shortboarding, it's incredible what the surfers do. It's like it's a controlled failure of the surfing. So a lot of times when the fins release, it's a—and I know this because I put a lot of thought into fins and foils and whatnot—a lot of the best high-performance surfing maneuvers are a controlled failure. Mhm. They're pushing the limits of the board, and a lot of times the fins or the equipment can't really handle what these surfers are giving it. It's really interesting. Look at someone laying into a turn, and their butt is sliding across the wave, and the fins and the board and everything's sliding. And then look at, like, a Mick Fanning or somebody who can hold that—or Ethan Ewing—and hold it all the way through. That's gnarly. That is just like peak form. But you're like, man, that was so smooth, but you're not ever saying, that was so difficult to do. And I don't know what the point is I'm making.
Devon Howard
I guess it comes back to, uh, like the kind of surfing I like to do. It could be easily scoffed at as pretty easy, like, hey, mid-length surfing, you're just going straight. It's not really difficult. But I don't know, man. At the highest levels—I think what Torren Martyn does, I think what February does if he's on a mid-length or other—you know, there's other surfers out there doing it, and I kind of watch—wow, look at that. Five-sixths of the rail of that board is buried. And that's what I do myself. And that's—to me—that's the most thrilling thing, is to bury that rail. How far can I push this thing before it fails me? That's just really, really thrilling. You're just on the edge of disaster. You know, when you go on one of those seven-foot boards, go to the bottom, slink, you know, and coil up into the board and push it as hard as you can. Alex Knost does this really good as well. I can go on forever. People do a great job of this, and they push all that board through. And then if you don't watch it—you know, if you're not too far forward or too much weight on your front foot—you'll slingshot up the face. It's this fast, free feeling, like a flying feeling that's highly addictive.
Devon Howard
It's something that you just keep—my people that are into those types of boards, they just keep chasing it. And then down the line, do the same thing again. Now I'm going to bury a whole lot of rail on the cutback. How hard can I push it? And when I get down to the bottom of the wave, can I just keep going right back to the whitewater? Oh yes, I can. Damn. Just keep going. Sometimes it doesn't work out. And if you blow that, you're doing the splits on the board. Now you've got a torn MCL. But you're going full throttle. And on that type of equipment, the form is important so that you don't botch it, because you really could get injured on some of these things. Probably someone who hears this is going to laugh and think, this is a joke, like you're being really hyperbolic, bro. Come on. It's just a mid-length and you're over water. Yeah, when you're pushing it really hard, it's thrilling and it's exciting, and it is difficult to do. And it's—I think it's really appealing to a lot of people. And then they, you know, they go and try and do it and say, man, I wish I could surf like Rob Machado on this thing. Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Well, all the surfers—
Devon Howard
Take ten years.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, if not longer. I think all the surfers you mention and the way you talk about their surfing is—they're—can they stay connected? You know, that as they're going through the turns and in between turns, there's no radical gain or loss of speed. Right? So where they do the cutback isn't just a change of direction. It's in sync with that part of the wave, so they stay connected to the power source. So there's a certain—it's a radical maneuver, but the speed doesn't waver too much, whereas some surfers might jump up to the top and bust the fins, and they might slow right down and then fall back down into the wave and go again. And it looks good in photos and maybe gets judged well in a competition, but it's not necessarily—they're not as connected to the wave as other surfers.
Devon Howard
Yeah. And again, that's debatable. I'm sure there's other people who will feel opposite of that, and that's great. You know, surfing's subjective. Yeah. And, you know—and just to bring it back a little bit to competition if that's okay—I know lots of people don't care about surf competition, but it is where a lot of the best surfing's happening. It's where the high bar is, a lot of times. And in the 60s and 70s, style was just sort of—it wasn't like there was a style box that was ticked. It was sort of like this nice little cozy little wrapping around the surfing that was just a given, you know, so it didn't really need to be discussed. And then in the 80s—and probably really the late 70s—when the twin fin was really coming on with MR pushing that and Shaun Tomson and other people chasing him, they were packing in as many maneuvers as they possibly could into a ride to take away more points. And this isn't my own thought or original idea—I've read these things elsewhere—and I agree with this take, which is somewhere along the way, the beauty just sort of eroded because the focus is now—we're getting really fixated on number of maneuvers and this real technical aspect of the difficulty of the maneuvers.
Devon Howard
And surfing is already highly subjective. And you have this even more subjective thing—style. And some of them—maybe, correct me if I'm wrong—maybe there was a style element at some point. I'm not aware of it. Maybe there was. And so, anyways, the 80s kind of moves on, and there were clearly lots of stylish surfers. I mean, I grew up like many people my age—I'm 50—so I worshipped Tom Curren, and I loved Tom Carroll and a bunch of folks. There was lots of style, but there were also some people with some really hideous style, like Gary Elkerton and Damien Hardman and all these people. Nothing against them, man. I think they're all incredible surfers, but there were some hideous styles, and they crushed it in contests because they were just animals—like, lacerating, tearing it up. And because the broader culture is being driven by whatever media is being consumed, and the media at the time was really sort of swiveling and craning and watching what's going on in competition, because that's where the money's being plugged in. So those brands are like, hey, we validate this thing we're doing, which is competition surfing. And it just boiled down to, what do you got to do to win this thing? And if making it look beautiful was not ever important, why would you spend time doing that? Tom Curren couldn't help himself.
Devon Howard
He was stylish no matter what. But lots—lots of other surfers weren't, and they did very well. And so as the decade or two ensues, just the sort of broad mainstream viewpoint was that style just wasn't important. However, the people that were in the sort of the underground—your locals, people that sort of stuck to the fringe—and even the people that shortboarded as well obviously still kind of kept style alive. And the reason style always stayed alive is because the idea that human beings are drawn and attracted to beauty is as old as time, I think. I mean, who knows when that began. I had a really nice chat with David Scales on Surf Splendor, and we spoke about this there. So if you want to hear more about this, go check that out. I think it was a nice conversation. But I'll sort of reiterate some of the points. There was—I read an article by Scott Hewlett in The Surfer's Journal, and he wrote quite a bit about style. And he illustrated a point that I'd never considered. And he was sort of talking about this Greek artist—it was like 500 BC. I'm like, where is this thing going? Why are we talking about bronze sculptures? But he made a really brilliant point, which is—okay, why does style matter? Why do we keep talking about it? It's because beauty endures.
Devon Howard
It is a common theme in human nature. Now, in recent times, I'd say beauty is being abandoned. If you look at modern architecture in just about any town, everything looks like shit. So I don't know what's going on there. We used to make beautiful buildings, and now we're stopping doing it. We can't control that. But in surfing, we keep getting drawn back to this idea of beauty. Despite all those things that happened that we just talked about in the 80s and 90s—competition surfing and getting derailed—the broad culture still has always known instinctively that this is something we should never stop cherishing. We should never stop celebrating. And I think it's backed up by—if you go to any Torren Martyn video, go down to this thing below the screen that says "views." A lot of Torren Martyn videos have like a million plus views. Go over to Gabriel Medina or anyone—and I'm not picking on these people, just pick anybody—I’ll bet you right now that Torren is beating a lot of those surfers two or three or four to one in terms of views. Now, you could argue that, well, there's a lot more Gabriel Medina-type surfers, and there's not that many Torren Martyns. I'll give you that.
Devon Howard
But I think it's really because we are drawn to beauty. And so back to that Surfer’s Journal article, he said, imagine taking those Greek statues and putting a surfboard underneath them. And when I was done reading the article, I went and I googled "500 BC Greek statue," and I forget the artist's name—it’s a Greek name—and I was instantly like, huh, look at that. You just put a surfboard under these statues. And some of the form and posture was a little bit silly, but a lot of it was pretty spot on. And then you go right over to Gerry Lopez, or you go to Mikey February or somebody else, and you can see that there's a similarity to this idea of beauty. And then you go take it steps further—take it to any type of traditional dance. Have you ever seen ugly, poor form at any dance scenario where there’s, like, serious people—whether it’s ballroom or it’s swing or it’s foxtrot or it’s tango or it’s salsa—it’s just incredibly beautiful. And it’s this expression. The music is coming in, you’re viewing and watching and feeling the music—there’s that input—and the output is what these people are feeling. And so our output in surfing is that form and that expression. Bullfighters. Same thing.
Michael Frampton
Mhm.
Devon Howard
Now the bullfighters have a little more of a pose at the end. The bull’s coming in and the bull goes through the cape, and they kind of hold it and they sort of—it’s almost like a taunting of the bull, like, you didn’t kill me, and look how calm I am right here. And a lot of the surfers in the 50s and 60s—they really admired the bullfighters. There’s a great shot of Joey Cabell in Peru in the 60s. Guy’s never bullfought before, and he’s down there, and there’s pictures of him in the bull ring with a Hawaiian print shirt on and doing the whole full "Ole!" you know. And so this idea of style really is always going to matter and always be important to us, so long as we don’t ever abandon this attraction of ours to beauty. You know, we’re attracted to beautiful people. Clearly, that’s a given, right? But we’re really drawn to beautiful things—art, architecture, a wonderful garden, an unmolested landscape. And so I don’t think people really care to give too much thought about style.
Devon Howard
I think it's just sort of like I said—you know it when you see it. Does it really need to be talked about? But I think in the context of a podcast like yours, where people are trying to improve their surfing, having a real understanding that this isn't just for show—style isn't just to look cool. It's not like putting on a cool outfit to look cool. It's a real purpose-driven thing. Certain articles of clothing look great, but they also have a purpose. Maybe it has SPF in it. Maybe it's built for a particular activity to make it more comfortable. For us, as I was saying in the very beginning, the form—the style sort of follows the form. And if you really think about your form and you're relaxed and you're sort of paying attention to the things that you talk about on your podcast or where people get their information—there’s lots of different YouTube things, obviously—you too could have nice style if you so desire.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, I 100% agree. Surfing is, first and foremost, an art form. Mhm. It's only within competition that it becomes a sport. And then, yes, sometimes we sacrifice a bit of style for progression, perhaps, as well as what's happening in windsurfing. It's a sport. I still think the best of the best—the best of the best can combine. Like John John—he's number one at the moment for a reason. Not just because he's progressive, but because he would do a progressive turn with calm style like no one else. Yeah. So I still have faith. I think there'll be the odd slip-up—you know, Toledo's frantic aerial maneuver that goes higher than everyone else—the judges kind of—they can't not score it, you know? So, you know, there'll be blips in the system—glitches in the matrix, per se—until the judges really start to consider style and make that a point, which hopefully, maybe one day, they will. I think it would make—I would make surfing more watchable.
Devon Howard
Well, they have done so in longboard surfing. Yes. Longboard surfing has a much smaller audience, obviously. But as I believe you and I talked about in the past—I think we did—I was at the WSL for a few years, and I worked on the longboard tour. And built into the criteria is the word "style." Also two other words—flow and grace. Style, flow, grace is in the criteria. And it's hard—a little difficult—to train the judges on it, you know? It's highly subjective. It's something—we could sit here for an hour breaking down style, flow, grace—it will still feel like we barely scratched the surface. Because it is highly subjective, just like art is, just like music is, just like food is, just like what kind of waves I like. Ah, it's just like that. It really can be difficult to put your finger on it. But the way we did the training to help these judges, if anyone cares to know this stuff, is have them really focus on somebody making something really difficult look easy. But also, at the same time, dealt with sight of the positioning of the wave or the difficulty of the maneuver. Because to the untrained eye, you could see someone doing a nose ride, and maybe they're doing something really—what you may think is beautiful—on the nose.
Devon Howard
Maybe their arms are held a certain way, it just looks kind of cool. But if you pay close attention, they're like ten feet in front of the pocket. And you're like, that’s not that hard to do. Mhm. So what helps is—in the other part of the criteria—is the degree of difficulty. That is part of it. So you're looking at the style, flow, and grace, but you're applying it to—are these surfers in the pocket? Is the surfer using their rail, or are they lifting the board out of the water? Because to lift the longboard out of the water and turn it is far easier than engaging the rail in the water and pushing it through a turn. That's much more difficult. And so it has been applied in longboard surfing. Let's see if we can—if anyone cares—we could try to do a campaign to get the shortboard tour to break more.
Michael Frampton
I'm with you. I'm with you. Ultimately, I do think it shines through, and the cream always rises to the top. But it would be nice if it was literally in the criteria, and it was considered by each surfer to be a worthy consideration. Coming back to form—let me—I'm going to share my screen with you. Let me—hopefully this works. Oh, shit. Did that work? Can you see my screen?
Devon Howard
I think so. Let me move my notes here a little bit. Oops. Too many things around here. I'm terrible at computer stuff. One second. So—where it is now? Okay, I can see it now.
Michael Frampton
So there's an example of a—you know, if that was placed on the nose of a longboard, it’d be quite cool.
Devon Howard
Yeah, it's pretty close.
Michael Frampton
But then also—so here's—you see on the left there is the way that a baby learns to stand. Now, because the infant is so weak, there’s only one way that they can learn to roll over and learn to stand up and hold themselves. Because their muscles are so weak, their bones have to be placed so accurately in order for them to be able to stand and move. And that’s how we learn—because of our weakness and our slow progression into strength—we learn the most efficient way possible. Now it’s the athletes that maintain that neurological efficiency that end up with the best form naturally—i.e. the way Kelly Slater’s standing there in those barrels. Not only is he standing in a very similar way to the infant there, he's also very calm and relaxed in that position.
Devon Howard
Yeah, I would definitely not be that calm in that—those waves.
Michael Frampton
Exactly. So it does come back to form. And it’s also—when an athlete is standing with their joints—in DNS, we call it "joint centration"—and that the bones are stacked on top of each other in a very efficient way, it just looks right. Not only does it look right, the way the forces are spread throughout the body—it doesn’t feel hard. Anyone who’s ever tried—if anyone has ever tried to skate a vert ramp, for example—a halfpipe—it feels like, oh man, my legs aren’t strong enough. How do people—and then you watch a 12-year-old just go up and down. They’re not doing it because their legs are stronger than yours. They’re not even doing it because they’re stronger relative to their body weight. They’re doing it because they’re stacking themselves. Their bones and their joints are centered properly, and the force is being transferred throughout their entire body through the center of the bone and into the skateboard. Whereas someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing—they’re trying to muscle their way through it. Not only does it feel terrible, it looks terrible. Yeah. So I agree with that. Yeah. So it does come back to efficiency. And you said, good style is that you know it when you see it. My question to you is—do you know it when you feel it?
Devon Howard
Yes. I believe so. I know—I’ve even had moments where I just didn’t feel like I was in the right form. It just didn’t—the turn didn’t feel good or the particular movement—maybe it’s a nose ride or something—didn’t feel great. And if you get a chance to be lucky enough to come across a video or a photo of that moment, you’re like, mm, yeah, that actually backs it up. It looks a bit awkward. It looks a bit off. So—and you definitely can feel good style because you like it—it’s all tethered to itself. It feels good. It looks good. And it sort of carries on the ride. It's like when you get off the very beginning of the ride and the first bottom turn is successful and your feet are in the right place—it really sets up the rest of the ride. If you botch that—let's say you screw it up getting to your feet or off the bottom—then you screw up the pace of the wave. So, yeah, I’ve had times where my feet were too far forward or back or whatever, or I hit a chop and my arms sort of waved a little bit, and then I got out of that rhythm. And that didn’t—that definitely didn’t feel good. And it certainly didn’t—because it looked like I was rolling up the windows as opposed to my arms being sort of down and going the direction that I want to be headed.
Devon Howard
A lot of times the front and the back hand oftentimes are going the direction you want to go. I find that to be very helpful, and that feels good to me because I feel really centered—or you’d say "stacked." I never thought of it that way, but—so yeah, I would agree. I would say you definitely—you definitely feel it. My own belief is—I don’t do anything in the style that I feel is what’s called contrived, where I’m trying to present a form of some kind that has a certain look. The form I have is really based off of function. And that’s because I watched the generation two ahead of me at waves like Windansea and Cardiff Reef. And I watched the elders, and I really watched closely what they were doing. How they were sinking down into the board. And I noticed that their hands—their fingers were never apart. Their hand gestures were sort of always in the direction of where their board and body was heading. It was like this stacking or centering. They kind of hunkered down, but they never looked stiff or scared or afraid of anything or timid. It was a very confident—almost like a martial artist, like a kung fu person or something—that has confidence in the form of that particular move.
Devon Howard
The really good surfers—the real standout surfers—I identified that pretty young, and I said, I want—I need to learn how to do that. So it was never a contrived thing like, I need to look good and look cool. I just knew that that was good surfing. And as a consequence of going through that, it also felt really good. It was like a good golf swing. I don’t golf at all, but I have friends who do, and I can understand how much work they put into that golf swing. And when they do that, clearly it looks good from a distance because they hit the ball and it goes right where they want it to go. So that’s pretty awesome. But they’ll tell you it feels good. Or baseball—if you’ve ever played baseball, you know the feeling of a home run. There’s a sound of the bat and the feel through the bat into your hands, and you feel it—the follow-through of the swing. You’re like, that ball is out of here. It’s pretty cool. Mhm. A reward to—not that it’s work—but there’s sort of like this payoff and a reward to the dedication that it took to learn that art form. Mhm.
Michael Frampton
But it always comes back to the feeling.
Devon Howard
It really does. Yeah. I didn’t—I haven’t put too much thought into the feeling piece of it. But yeah. You know, it’s disgusting and really dumb and shallow, but I’ve had moments where the ride didn’t feel good, and I didn’t even finish the wave. I was so not into the feeling—I just kicked out. I was like, I botched this thing so bad that someone else just needs to finish it. I just—I just kick out and I go back up to the top and kind of regroup and go, what just went wrong there? And then, you know, like, surfing—everyone surfs for different reasons too. Like, for some people, surfing is a couple times a month. It’s an escape for them. They don’t care if they surf well. That’s not what they’re there for.
Michael Frampton
Like they’re probably not listening to this, though.
Devon Howard
Probably not. And I’ve had people say, man, you look so serious when you’re surfing. I’m like, I’m pretty serious about it. Like, to me—it’s so strange—it’s serious fun. And as I’ve gotten older, I haven’t lost interest in it. It’s like a hunt to me. It’s really weird. And I don’t—I don’t know if it’s just some human thing of, like, the game and the chess moves and everything involved with observing patterns. I’ve observed patterns for decades, and now I see the patterns, and the benefit for me is I know which wave to pick. I know where to be. And by knowing that, I’ve set up the ride and therefore I’ve sort of predetermined this feeling that I’m after, which is—as I said—it’s highly addicting. Surfing—you’re never satiated. Why is that? You always want another one. You always want more. And—but all through this process—the hunt, the enjoying, understanding the patterns, the chasing, the moment, the feeling—there’s a tremendous sense of—there’s like a reward when all the elements have come together and you apply everything you’ve learned. It’s a really cool feeling. I think you could say that about a lot of things in life, whatever your craft is.
Devon Howard
And for me, surfing isn't just like some waste-of-time thing. Like, that's part of it. That's a bonus to me, like, hey, I'm not doing chores or I'm not at work. That's fantastic. I will take that. But it's also like a craft. It's a way I express myself. Some people do that through building things out of wood in their garage or a number of other things. So the style piece of it—it's just sort of come along with it. It never was like, I'm going to really think about this super duper hard. And you just—you learn through time that the style and the form, they sort of, like, are tied together, you know? And you kind of look at it this way, and then you go back and look at it the other way, and they really come together nicely. And if you fight them, you're not going to surf as well. If you're not surfing as well, you're not going to feel it as right. You won't feel that thing we just talked about. And then consequently—not that that many people care—but your surfing is going to be kind of ugly.
Michael Frampton
Thing is.
Michael Frampton
It'll—
Michael Frampton
Because when you are—when you're connected and you're efficient—it feels better. Simple as that. It feels better. If you close your eyes and just imagine, like, an image or a video section of someone who epitomizes style—are they—what are they feeling in the moment? Are they worried about what they look like? No. Are they scared? No. Are they putting in a ton of effort?
Devon Howard
I would say no.
Michael Frampton
It's in the—
Devon Howard
Moment. Yeah. There's probably a small number of people who—it's contrived. Like, you could go to Byron Bay—sorry, sorry, Byron Bay, I’m picking on you right now. You could go to Malibu. Pick your spot. Maybe Montego Bay. I don't know. Way inside there, there's going to be places where there are folks that—for whatever reason—this—well, like, who cares? There's no laws or rules. Like, I'm not mad about this. It's just—they're just observations. That's it. They're really controlled. It's just so contrived. They're sort of putting the form—or, I'm sorry, let me back up—they're putting the presentation ahead of the form. You know, they're worried about all the bells and whistles and the dressing, but at the core of all the ingredients going into making this beautiful thing, they've got it all wrong, you know?
Michael Frampton
You can always smell that though, I think.
Devon Howard
And it's a missed opportunity for them. Does it change my life or your life or anybody listening? You do you, man. Like, I'm very libertarian in that way. I don't really care. But we're on a podcast called Surf Mastery, so we're nerding out. And if you're here to get better, don't get caught up in the presentation. Get caught up in the form. The presentation is going to come along. And yeah, it's just like this beautiful byproduct. You shouldn't have to try to have good style. You should try to be good at surfing. And then once you have that confidence—you know, if you see a photo or catch a Surfline rewind, if you can see that far and you happen to notice that your hands are bent at the wrist and going in instead of out, or you happen to notice that your fingers are wide apart, you could pull them in and it looks better—but it also centers and stacks you. You start feeling more stacked over your board. And once you start doing that, your style just starts improving. And it's interesting that tube riding—this is what we talked about with David the other day, I think. Or maybe we didn’t—I can't remember—but someone I was talking to about it, it's interesting that almost all good tube riding has good style. Most of it. You rarely see someone with really hideous style getting a sick barrel.
Michael Frampton
So yeah, because the wave will hit them in the butt with their poor stance. They just don’t—they don’t fit, and they’re ugly.
Devon Howard
Yeah, I think it's true. There’s a lesson there that can be applied to other maneuvers. But it’s not always true that good tube style now equates to this beautiful style on the face. You’ll see when it doesn’t fall apart. Why is that? I don’t know exactly. Maybe the—I think one thing that could help with style from a technique standpoint is—don’t rush your surfing. I’ve noticed, like, folks that—remember we were talking earlier about breaking trim and seeing people that are trying to wiggle—they’re sort of swaying. A lot of times, it’s the upper body that’s swaying when that’s not really helping them in any way. It’s not benefiting the ride. It’s causing the board to lift out of the water in side-to-side motion, typically. And now you’re breaking the trim. Now in a shortboard, a shortboard needs to be side to side, but it’s also got to be pushed so that it’s building momentum in a forward fashion. The people that are not very good are kind of not going anywhere because they don’t understand that. They’re just sort of wiggling their arms and breaking the trim.
Devon Howard
And I think if you just—yeah, just think about being a little bit more quiet. And being a little bit more quiet means you’re not in a big hurry. Like, if you're not at a level where you need to try to get eight maneuvers in the wave—don’t do it. Take your time and get two really nice maneuvers, and those will feel really good. Be patient off the bottom. When you—let's start from the beginning—you go and you paddle in, you go to do a bottom turn—just be there in that moment with that bottom turn. Don’t be thinking about the four moves you want to do down the line. Because now it becomes this rush. You’re hurrying up the surfing, and now you’re kind of screwing up the pace of the ride. You’re screwing up the pace of the wave. And when you do that, now you’re out of sync. When you’re out of sync, it doesn’t feel or look good. So I think the best advice to—how do I get good style?—start with the form and don’t rush your surfing.
Devon Howard
Don’t try to contrive it. Don’t try to—like, I’m going to have—make sure my hands are up here and I’ll go like this and I’m looking backwards and going, okay, that’s cool. You do you. But you know, that’s not helping you surf better.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, yeah. You can be quick without being rushed.
Devon Howard
Exactly.
Michael Frampton
Like a drummer that’s drumming at 160 beats per minute—if they’re ahead of the beat slightly, it sounds rushed. But if they’re on the beat, it’s in time. It’s rhythm. And they’re nice and relaxed. They’re still fast—they’re just not rushed, utterly. And it’s interesting you mentioned, like, the hands curled in like this. If your hands are curled in like this, you will feel scared. Your physiology affects your emotions. That’s a scared posture. That’s a protective posture. So if you forcefully open up your hands—like Tony Robbins says—stand up tall and straight and relaxed, you will feel better. If you force yourself to smile, you will feel better inside. So I think that, you know, a bit of video analysis and analyzing your own style can actually—and changing it—can actually make surfing feel better as well. But I love those tips you just said, and it was a good summary and it's a great place to end. Devon, thank you so much.
Devon Howard
All right. I hope we made some sense there. It's fun to talk about it, because I've felt this stuff for a long time, but I don’t really ever talk about it. And it’s only just in recent times. And I gotta thank Scott Hewlett from The Surfer's Journal for getting the gears going in my mind of how to think about this stuff. It's fun to share it, so I hope people get some value out of this conversation.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Oh, definitely. Definitely. I mean, if you come up with more thoughts on it, let me know. We'll get you back on and we'll expand, because it’s an important topic.
Devon Howard
Well, we’re in the middle of some fin placement on a mid-length, so I gotta get back down there. I also got this dust down here.
Michael Frampton
All right. Thanks, Devon. I’ll let you—right—you get back to it.
Devon Howard
All right. Thank you, Michael. See you.
The Hidden Techniques to Perfect Your Surfing Style with Devon Howard
For the passionate surfer—whether you're a weekend warrior, a surf dad, or an older surfer—this podcast is all about better surfing and deeper stoke. With expert surf coaching, surf training, and surfing tips, we’ll help you catch more waves, refine your paddling technique, and perfect your pop up on a surfboard. From surf workouts to handling wipeouts, chasing bigger waves, and mastering surf technique, we’re here to make sure you not only improve but truly enjoy surfing more—so you can get more out of every session and become a wiser surfer. Go from Beginner or intermediate Surfer to advanced.