138 From Obsession to Awareness: How Great Surfers Evolve with Coach Chris of The Surf Continuum
What if becoming a better surfer isn’t about catching more waves - but about thinking differently in the water?
In this episode, Coach Chris from The Surf Continuum unpacks the deeper layers of surfing that often go unnoticed: the philosophy behind progression, the importance of surf culture and etiquette, and how maturity in the water can transform your entire experience. If you’ve ever felt frustrated, stuck, or disconnected from your surfing, this conversation offers a refreshing, thoughtful perspective.
Gain insight into how mastering fundamentals and simplifying your approach leads to true, lasting progression
Learn how surf culture, respect in the lineup, and ethical decision-making shape not just your surfing, but your identity as a surfer
Discover how breaking surfing down into simple, learnable fundamentals removes overwhelm and builds real skill
How shifting from performance-driven surfing to a more present, aware, and intentional approach can deepen your enjoyment and longevity in the sport
Press play to explore a more thoughtful, grounded approach to surfing, and start evolving not just as a surfer, but as a human in the water.
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https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/kookcast-surf-education/id1387032167
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Transcript:
Coach Chris: it's cool because our philosophy is the same. It's our unifying, kind of path. But obviously our personalities and our approaches and and delivery of of that same philosophy comes out differently.
Michael Frampton: So what's the philosophy?
Coach Chris: Lemme just put it really simple first and then we can get into the nuance and the nitty gritty of it. , Fundamentals. That's it. As somebody who really appreciates learning and also teaching. My, my mother was a teacher , my father, he wasn't a formal teacher, but he was just, he was a good teacher, , at whatever he was trying to share with you.
For him, it would be mostly sailing, but anything, he was patient and, and just, he had the art, you know, he could have been a teacher. , And just something I really started catching on to with anything I was interested in was that if you could figure out what the basic things were, and I mean the most basic, like really break it down to the cellular level, you can build everything up from there.
And also because it's very easy to get distracted by , the goal or the big picture or the ultimate destination. And with surfing, that's riding a beautiful wave. , I guess you just, you have the cover shot in your head when you think of surfing and when you start learning.
But really that's like the end result. The work to get there is just comprised of a lot of very simple things that individually, anybody can learn in a day, but it's piecing it all together and getting the timing and the application. That's where it becomes like the, , the complex looking thing, but really broken down.
It's all simple things. . Fundamentals, and , that's what I feel like I wanna do with my students is, is bring them back to this basic, deconstruction of surfing. I think it makes it a lot more, , digestible too. It's less intimidating, you know, you don't have to do all these things, you just have to focus on one piece at a time, and then as you put it all together, it starts to become, oh, this is it.
I'm doing surfing.
Michael Frampton: So true.
Yeah, the fundamentals are unavoidable and they're there for every surfer. Whether you are, a beginner or you're, , even someone really technical like Chipper Wilson, he's still, , in order to do a technical air, you still have to do a good bottom turn.
You still have to read the ocean correctly , and do a good popup. So sometimes we only see, we only see him do a, some weird technical trick. We don't realize it's, it all comes from fundamentals. And then you've, of course you've got surfers who have made a name just sticking to only the fundamentals.
I mean, there's nothing more beautiful than watching, , John, John just do a bottom top turn combo.
Coach Chris: Oh man. Yeah. A great person to watch and see simple surfing done beautifully. , Yeah. But it's, , I just, I really do believe that the simplicity and masterful execution of the most simple things, it looks really great.
It looks really complex. It looks really professional, and it, it doesn't necessarily have to be anything that's, , all that difficult. It's just. I think we, we easily, as humans, we wanna get on with it. You know, you wanna get to what you think you're trying to do and, and it rushes you past things that you should really get a little bit more obsessed over, you know?
And when you really spend all your time and, and just really, , obsessed, that's the word you get obsessed with it to, and you don't move on so easily. Like, oh yeah, yeah, I know how to paddle. I know how to paddle. If you get obsessed, you start really discovering things. You start figuring out just how you lay on your board can change the world for you and how you catch waves.
Michael Frampton: Yeah. So true. So you started Surf Continuum, correct? Mm-hmm. Which is a surf school. Is that the best way to put it?
Coach Chris: I would say no school sounds like a big group of people. , One thing that, you know, so my partner and I started the surf continuum, Evan and I, , and we did work, in surf schools and the, the business model with the surf schools is volume based.
You know, just try to crack off as much as you can in one day. And I understand it, you know, no, not throwing any shade. Um, I get why that has to be done, especially for seasonal places like where I live. We have a small window where tourists can come out and surf and have a, comfortable time. So you really are forced to, to pack it in as much as you can in a day.
But, you know, just right off the bat of doing it, something didn't sit right with me. , When I joined this group and I, I remember one like our, probably our first busy day of the year, just looking kind of left and right and realizing like, whoa, the majority of the lineup is us, you know, our, the instructors with their students .
, It's a pretty powerful thing to go out with a surf instructor who, who's put all these years in and understands where to position, how to set you up, and get you into a wave. And, and then with the push and all, , we were getting so good, we were barely pushing our students into waves.
We could instruct them to get them moving and doing all the stuff. And then just that little guidance where people usually hesitate and pull back, that's where you just kind of insist that they continue with a little nudge from the tail, you know? But, I just. I didn't really like it, you know, I felt like I've always had it in my heart.
I grew up in like real surf culture where, you know, if you were riding anything over then six foot, not that this is right, but if you were riding anything over six foot, you get outta here, go down the beach, whatever, , if you showed up with more than a friend, you know, or you came packed in a, in a car or a boat.
Another reason to, to shoo you away if at at best. So all those things kind of influenced the surfer I became later in my life. And, and that was one of them was like, wow, we're crowding this spot and the people who are out here to surf can't really surf around us because we're good at what we do. So not only is it us as good surfers, but we're getting all these students into waves.
And then we're,, following 'em in on our own wave. Like there was just no meat left on the bones for any other surfers. And I felt like that was really, that wasn't right. You know, it felt like beginners need to earn their way up. They need to work their way up. And I just kind of took it upon myself.
I'm like, well, I don't, I can't change the world or even change this surf school, so I'm going to go out on my own and I'm gonna teach strictly like one-on-ones. , I'm not gonna try and grow. I'm not gonna try and get more instructors. , And I'm gonna try and be, just try to impart a little bit more of that surf culture that influenced me, and I'll filter out some of the unnecessary ego stuff.
Of course, you know, boards now I ride everything, you know, I ride finless, foamies, mid lanes, probably long boards of the least, but I got nothing against them, you know? And then of course, my shortboard, but probably least of all now is, is what I ride. , But the other stuff, , the parts, the, the parts of surf culture that I felt were.
Good and reasonable. And what made you really feel like you belong to the culture? , I try to keep in my teachings and so one of those things is not showing up in a big old group. You know, being discreet, being respectful, not paddling out to the peak as a, as a new beginner, just because you're with an instructor and thinking you're gonna get all the waves.
No, I, I humble myself and I sit on the inside with my student and we pick up scraps and we pull back if there isn't, you know, if, if someone's on it. , And I, and it's just, it really makes the journey more impactful and I feel like it makes the stages of your growth feel better than having it all in the first day, you know, or the first few moments of surfing to get all of the rewards so early, kind of spoils the rest of the journey, I think.
Michael Frampton: Yeah, that tourist experience. It gives you, a false perspective on surfing, I think sometimes, isn't it? Yeah. They're trying to get you to stand up on the first wave and perfect conditions and the right beach and blah, blah, blah.
Coach Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
I think that's again, , like we're getting at, it's, it, these are earned things. These are things that you start picking up on, like, oh, when the wind's offshore, the conditions are cleaner. Huh. You know, I didn't put that together until like, I don't know how many years into surfing. I just wanted to get to the beach, and if I saw white whitewater, I was pumped.
It took me a long time before I started thinking about conditions and, , also I was a kid, but, , I, I think that's a really important mentality to try and capture in your beginner days is like this tolerance for anything. Like, you're just so pumped to, to get another chance to practice that.
You know, you don't care about conditions. In fact, I, what's something I like to say is the worst condition is crowd. And when is there a crowd when surf lines calling green? , So when I get like these onshore wind reports or, , when we're getting like, oh, bad day for surfing, quote unquote, I'm writing out to my students, , and I, my little mailing list I have, and I'm going, this is gonna be a great day for us.
There's gonna be nobody out. We should all be surfing. This is our day. , Bring back that, you know, grom mentality of, you know, less people, at least less crowd I should say. 'cause people are great. But, , it's the crowd, the, the pack and the, the people who are attracted to the good conditions where you start getting this, it, it taints your mindset too early in your surfing journey.
Michael Frampton: Yeah. Well that's a great origin story and it's. The best sort of philosophy for a surf coach to have. , I hope it catches on because I don't think so, man. , I think it'll balance out some. It, I mean, it has to, I mean, there's certain spots where it won't, you're right. Especially, you know mm-hmm.
Beginner friendly spots. Um, you know, it's always gonna sort of be that way, uh, in, in, in a way it's sort of the conditions, when the conditions get challenging, it's sort of, that's what separates the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. And I just think as experienced surfers who hold onto those sort of old school traditional ethical surf values, we just have to travel really.
And we have to embrace that adventure surfer in us and, or, ride a different board around the corner where the waves aren't so crowded. That's, that's sort of what I do. But it's a shame. Absolutely. Yeah. It's a shame when your local spot turns on, you wanna surf it, you're, you're kind of zigzagging your way through a bunch of people that dunno what they're doing
it can be frustrating.
Coach Chris: Yeah. There are days where the, the perfect storm comes together and you know, it, it's like not too big that they can't send them out, but it is just pristine and beautiful and it really should be something more reserved for the, you know, the, the ones who've put their time in. But, you know, one other thing to the origin story is that I understand also the tourist approach to it.
The amusement park ride, let's just call it what it is. I think my problem is not that business model itself, it's more so the semantics. They're still calling it surf lessons, , or surf instruction, and it's like, no, no. That's not instruction. This is a ride. It's a very fun ride.
Yes. Enjoy it. Have fun. And, and a lot of those people, they don't come back to go surfing again or, or maybe they do next summer, but they're not actually trying to learn how to surf. They just kind of want to have the experience. Cool. That's fine. What I started finding though, in those people were people who did want to learn how to surf, who really had this intention of like, I'm gonna, I think this is something I want to commit to, but they were just falling into the same tourist version of the lessons, you know, but because it was called surf lessons, they thought they're in the right place.
And I was like, okay, these are my people. You know, there's fewer of them mixed in to the rest of the tourist crowd. But if I can get my message right and, and my voice out there to, to help these people identify themselves as not quite the surf lesson crowd and find me instead. I thought, okay, there's a, there's a path for me here.
You know, there's, there's people. 'cause you know that that'll never change. There's always gonna be tourists who want to go on the surf ride, you know, and, and let 'em, I, I don't mind, uh, I just, the people who really wanna learn how to surf, they're the ones that I want to capture and be like, okay, come on.
Let's go out when the conditions are shitty, let's go, , let's go paddle, let's go talk about for the whole time how to paddle better, how to position on the board. Let's get nuanced and crazy about all that stuff. Let's not go to the best wave where the people are, like you said, and go down there.
There's no one there. And the wave is just less often or smaller, or , a little bit more title, whatever it is. But accept all those things as, , part of the journey of learning how to surf.
Michael Frampton: Yeah. Oh, there's such a need for that way of thinking. Especially because there's so many people that I think did have that tourist experience surf.
Their, their first experience was with a tourist operator and, and then they thought, I wanna commit to this. And then I think back when we grew up surfing, the locals and the elders, they sort of shunned us and shamed us and probably spoke quite harshly to us. And that's how we learn some of the ethics and the finer details in, in surfing.
But there's just so many newcomers to surfing that those people don't have the, the time to do that. So basically nowadays, instead of the elder, local surfers actually imparting some wisdom, albeit maybe a little too harshly, but hey, um, they, they just ignore it. That they just surf around you and drop in on you.
And so there's all these people that aren't getting, , knowledge from, from the locals. They're just having locals run rings around them. , 'Cause they don't have the, you don't have the time. It used to be one or two , new surfers in the water. You, you educate that way. But nowadays there's, gosh, it feels like there's 50 sometimes and you've gotta literally surf through.
You ca you don't have time to stop and say, Hey, you make sure you don't paddle in front of me and keep over there, or whatever it is. So we need , more of what you are doing for sure. So happy to help you put the message out there, but let's see. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Let's go back even further. When, when did you personally start surfing?
Coach Chris: Oh, okay. So I was a little bit older. I wasn't like a grom grom, like I really wished I had been, four, five, and six. Like my daughter, she's dragging her boogie around when she's, you know, one and a half years old. I love it. I'm so excited for her, um, to have that experience. You know, literally just dragging the boogie around.
Hasn't even gone with her. Boogie in the ocean and tried to get waves yet. Now she's two and a half. But, so I started surfing around, , 12 and I probably wanted to surf for a year and a half before that, but it took me a good year and a half, maybe two, to get a surfboard leading up to that. I have the best foundation that anybody could have to learn how to surf, which is boogie boarding, body boarding, whatever you'd like to call it.
I like it. I like boogie. That's what I grew up calling it, and I still like to call it Boogie, the Boogie Board. Um, and I've been doing that since, you know, grom days just. Out in the water, straight up the beach, out in the water, waist deep, straight up the beach, blasted by whitewater over and over and over again.
And it wasn't until I started teaching surfing that I realized how important that was as a foundation for my surfing. And then also realizing like, oh my God, every great surfer to some extent or another rode their boogie. It's, it's a, it's a high rep, safe, manageable piece of equipment. , There's just so much, it's so much surfing packed into such a smaller amount of time and on all these adults I work with that just get on a surfboard.
It's tough because it takes not, not only longer because they're adults and we all know that children learn things so much better. And as you get older, you just less supple. Both physically and mentally to, to take new things on. , Now by skipping the Boogie and all the reps you can get and the high intense, you know, amount of work you can get done, you're going out there paddling, sitting, waiting.
Passing up waves if you're being respectful, ethical surfer, because it's not your turn. You can't get in position better than other people. You're going surfing when it's good condition, so everyone else is out surfing. So you get, you can really potentially get into a tough spot. , So I had been boogie boarding, , I apologize for all these tangents for that.
Michael Frampton: ,
I, I'm gonna interject one thing that I think the root, the roots of surfing is, and what I tell my kids all the time is, when it's raining outside and you get a piece of cardboard and you walk up a little hill and you slide down and you walk back up and you come. That's it. That's, and I always remind my kids, Hey, remember a couple years ago when you just walked out to chest deep water and rode a white water wave in?
That's just go out there, catch a wave coming. That's all it is. It's just real simple letting mother nature give you , some glide. That's, that's if we, that's the roots. Yeah. And that's why adults get caught up. So, and they don't realize that as kids, we, especially good surfers, went through that stage for often years.
Coach Chris: Years. Years. , And it was years for me. And like I said, I mean, towards the end of those years I wanted to surf so bad. I was trying to stand on my boogie board 'cause , you're a kid and I, I, I fell for the whole, I'm not surfing. Boogie boarding isn't surfing. Surfing is surfing. , But yeah, what, 12 or 13 years old is when I started and then I was hard I, any opportunity.
My father is a sailor and he loved to sail in the ocean on like, hobie cats, , like beach cats. He wasn't just like a leisure cruisey sailor. He wanted to rip and go sailing in the ocean. So that was great for me. 'cause now we both want to go to the ocean and I grew up sailing with him. Now this is where I started.
, He was a big part of my love for the ocean. But this is, , I started finding my own passion in the ocean. But we both still needed to go to the same place so we could easily. I could easily get him to go, you know, to the ocean. He even just to check his boats, , it was so easy. So I could go to the beach with him.
, My friend had a boat and that was a key 'cause I live, I lived right by the water, , but shadowed by barrier Islands. So you'd either have to drive 30 minutes in either direction to get a bridge across to the barrier islands and then drive to the beach. So it, it could be like a 40 minute ride to get to, to surfing by car, but by boat it was like 10 minutes.
And believe it or not, at an early age, we were allowed to take that boat somehow. I don't know, thinking back on it, it's crazy that they allowed us, we , and his dad thought he was doing a, uh, like a good thing he put a governor on the boat so that we could putt across. We figured out how to take that thing off in no time.
So we were flying full steam ahead across the bay. , But yeah, just trying to get to the beach any chance I got any possible way, , until I could drive and, uh, yeah, then I was driving illegally for two years to get myself to the beach. So I really, it was just about , surfing. Like once I started riding surfboards, it dictated like all the decisions I made in my life.
Michael Frampton: Yep. And how would you describe your current relationship to surfing and the ocean and how has it evolved over the years?
Coach Chris: Oh, that's a great question. 'cause I really do think about that kind of thing. . Like where it was, we were watching some videos recently, a couple of friends I grew up surfing with, and we were like, were we better?
Were, did we surf better back then? You know, because we were like, wow, I feel like I was ripping there and, and like, now I'm so much more leisure, right? I care about different things is the conclusion I came to back then. I really cared about like how much water was flying off my tail when I, you know, snapped it up in the lip, how well I connected it.
Sure, I still wanna do a great turn, but I care more now about positioning in the ocean. I care more about being a good surfer in different ways, , the way I see the ocean, the way I see water moving, like the invisible forces that you don't realize until you're looking back at the beach and you realize you're 300 yards down from where you started.
I like to be more on top of that now, ahead of the game, , and be observant of other surfers and what's happening to them into the, in the water. , I certainly ride all kinds of boards now. I'll ride anything, which is a stark contrast from what I used to be. I used to be diehard shortboard, you know, 5 8, 5 7 thrusters only.
Now I don't, I can't even tell you the last time I wrote a thruster. I'm on twenties, I'm on finless boards. , And I just, I've really come to know what I like because it's what I decided I like and not what I felt like I had to do to appease. I don't know, the group I was hanging with even they didn't know what they were.
You know, we were all obeying some unknown higher power of what it meant to be a good surfer, and it was totally wrong for 99% of us, the industry, you know, maybe for the guys looking to go pro Yeah. The industry. Right, right. And I think the other way that I've changed my surfing is I, I, I wrote this in A PDF for my students, but it's called the Art of Missing Waves.
And it's a layered, , philosophy. You know, there's many aspects to how you can gracefully miss a wave. One of them, the obvious is that you don't try too hard to catch a wave that doesn't, isn't quite doing it. You know, we've all been there. You see a wave, it looks great. You start going for it, and it starts laying down.
It hits a deep spot or something. It doesn't quite keep standing. And how many people do you see double down and paddle harder to try and insist on catching it? So the art of missing waves is like, no, let it go. Like, read the room. It's not, it's not a wave you, you should be riding, but it's also a little more philosophical in the sense that you can't always be at the ocean when it's firing.
You can't always get your session in when you want to. Especially now having kids and a wife and these other things, other responsibilities that are. Well, they're scoring in their own ways, but if you're so locked into surfing and you keep that teenager heads, uh, space about having to be there, you drive yourself crazy.
So I've also become a lot more willing and, and graceful about missing sessions. Basically what I'm trying to say is I surf less. Mm. And I'm not mad about it. Yeah. I've surfed a lot in my life and, uh, I'm very content with how much I've surfed and how much I still surf, and, uh, I just feel like, yeah, I'm scoring in new ways now in my life and it's, it's fun, it's exciting and I want to enjoy it and I don't wanna wish myself away or wish I was somewhere else while I'm actually doing things that other people dream of having.
Michael Frampton: Yeah. So would you say that when you do surf, your equipment is, fits the conditions better, your attitude fits the conditions better, and you're actually more present as well?
Coach Chris: Sure. Yeah. Yep, absolutely. , I always like to say like, being a good surfer or, or a surfer is just a, a label that we like to use for ourselves, ourselves being humans.
So if you wanna be a better surfer, you can be a better human, you know? And, and it really helps you, like we just said, you know, not, uh, not missing when you're missing the waves, not, not fomo or whatever, , torturing yourself. And then on the other hand, when you are surfing, being really grateful for it, being really present, you know?
I like that word you used , and just. Being there and, and enjoying every bit of it. I think that's just a, a maturity thing of so many years of surfing and also just getting older as a human that you, you come to, to realize, maybe not everybody, but I think a lot of people do.
Michael Frampton: Yeah. There's, , I thought I have around that, which is, I see surfing in a similar way.
Like I went through a state when I was younger. I was completely obsessed with it. There was fomo, there was short boards, you know, wanting to rip the bag out of it every turn, blah, blah. Same kind of thing. Right. And, I spent a lot of time and effort in getting better at surfing short boards and seeking fast, powerful waves and, .
I don't approach surfing that way at all anymore. I'm far more aligned with the way you just described it. But I wonder would I be able to, because I can go out into a crowded lineup and get, and choose fun waves and have a good time. But if I hadn't gone through that obsessed sort of FOMO stage of my surfing life, would I still have the surf knowledge and , the calmness and the ocean awareness to be able to do that?
And like if, if I've got a client who's already a bit of an older surfer and is starting later, do I need to encourage them to go through that obsessed, you need to be obsessed with surfing and surfing all the time and you know, blah, blah, blah in order to get better. Or can you have that mature laid back present and still become a good surfer and read the ocean and get your, your reps in.
Coach Chris: That's a really great thought. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I think, well, they have something like speaking about your client different than we had, which is us, uh, an instructor. Hmm. So maybe that supplements some of the knowledge they would otherwise have needed to get through obsession.
Um, yeah. But that's, that's a really good point. I think there's a version of it for them. You know, a version of obsessed, which is basically like ignorant to conditions, or not ignorant, but just don't care. You know, maybe they know it's good or bad conditions on the scale of what surfers consider, but don't care about it.
Be obsessed enough that you just wanna surf. Like, if you have this window, that's your time. You're going surfing well within reason. You know, I'm not telling people to paddle out and bombing on shore conditions, but I, I'm just talking about there's a lot, there's quite a lot of days that the lineup is mostly empty.
I mean, it's it empty compared with what it would look like if it was clean and offshore, just because the wind is on it a little bit. It's a little wrinkled. It's a little ruffled. We've really trained something in our eyes to see that as not good. And that kind of blows my mind because like I said earlier, I, I remember not even being able to see, like all I saw, it was black and white.
It was whitewater or no whitewater. You know, like there was a wave or there wasn't a wave. That was it. It can I ride it? In fact, I even remember being excited when the wind was on shore because I knew there had to be something, something had to be breaking. If there was an onshore wind, it's a little more risky when it was an offshore wind, you know, like sometimes you'd go and, I mean I'm in New York, so we do have some real deal flat spells where flat is flat.
I'm not talking like it's small, it's flat, like there isn't a breaking wave. Maybe just a little ankle slapper lapping up on the beach and you know, so you're like turning around and going home. Totally bummed, so I, I think there's a version of it, you know, for the older, older folk who start later in life.
But yeah, I, I don't know. I can't say with any kind of certainty. Well, what do you think about it? What do you feel? Do you, are you conflicted by it or do you have an answer if they should be obsessive like you were as a kid?
Michael Frampton: I think a lot of it's got to do with managing their expectations first of all.
If they're in a position where, they've worked hard, they've saved money, and they can afford to, you know, to go and go and spend six weeks in the Maldives and take a bunch of boards with you surf for eight hours a day, hell yeah. Sure, yeah. You know, you, if you're a bit older, you, you may, maybe it's not eight hours a day, maybe it's five and you've gotta do a, get a massage afterwards to, you know, you don't have a young body anymore.
So, little nuance, managing expectations like that. , I also totally agree with what you said. , Back then we didn't have us, like one of the biggest tips in my surfing journey was when Tom Carroll, , said, you've gotta look for the details. I remember going surfing with him, and he was in his late forties and I'm in my early thirties and he's catching these waist high waves and just doing full roundhouse cutbacks, going four times faster than anyone else.
I couldn't even catch these waves. And I was on a thicker board. I was like, how? And he's, oh, looking at, looking for the details, looking at the ripples, getting eyes down and looking across , oh. And that. Now I'm looking for the details in the waves. Mm-hmm. And the refractions and the secondary and tertiary swells and the way the water's drawing off the bottom, the way that the tides, so I can impart that now onto new surfers.
And often when, when I go surfing with, with someone, or if it's a one-on-one surf lesson, , I'm not really doing traditional video footage and surf technique analysis. I'm more of a surf guide and I'm saying, see how. See how there's that little indicator, that little wave that broke, you know, 400 meters out there, hit that rock, and there's that splash.
That means there's a set coming from the south and we're gonna paddle across here, and you see that bump here and it's that wave sliding across to there. I want you to paddle over there and take off on an angle. So I'm trying to impart some of the, the details that I'm seeing in, in the waves so that they can start to look for it now earlier on in Surf journey I think that also for the, for the older surfers, they need to know those details 'cause they're not as young and supple and they can't make as many mistakes and bodies aren't made of rubber and have endless energy and less inflammation. So you've got to sort of teach 'em that stuff. They're obviously a bit older, so they're open to it as well.
And I also think that information helps calm the nervous system as well, so they can actually be a bit more relaxed in the water. Yeah. But yeah, it, it's nuance and it certainly does depend on, on the client and their expectations and also their intentions. Like, it makes me think of, I did an episode recently, I read some books about longevity, and did an episode where I sort of summarized them in, in terms of surfing.
It's like we actually, we can become better surfers as we get older, and sort of. Maybe not better as in WSL surf technique, ripping a shortboard better. That's not what I meant, right? Mm-hmm. I meant we can go out and catch better waves and be more selective and choose the right surfboard. And when we surf and, , you know, if we maintain our bodies to a certain degree, may even, even maintaining a certain level of surfing as we age is a progression.
Agreed. Yeah. And then I interviewed someone a couple of episodes after I released that and he was listening to that episode and he went, he started listening to the episode thinking, oh, I can get better as a short borderer. So he had this intention of thinking in his late forties, oh, I can become a better short borderer.
And I was thinking, well, no, you kind of misread that. So he, he went into it with his own intentions and didn't really even hear what I was saying. So, so I think we, we need to be really realistic. If you're in your late forties, it's, and you started surfing late in life, you're probably not going to become better at doing a top turn on six foot waves.
It's just Right, right. It's unlikely. Is it impossible? No, not impossible, especially you look at Kelly Slater, but I think what a people, a lot of people might not realize is Kelly Slater, that's his full-time job. I guarantee you he's getting a massage, probably at least three massages a week. He's spending a lot of money on good nutrition.
He's getting his sleep. He's got, he's probably got a nanny that helps him with his kids. So he can, you know, this, his life is focused on maintaining his surfing level. So if you have the resources to, , to really focus on it, yeah, maybe you can, but I think it's mostly about managing expectations and being realistic and I guess to summarize, it's defining or perhaps redefining what getting better at surfing means.
I really like that.
Coach Chris: yeah. Yeah. No, I, I definitely, I can, uh, really agree with that. Even, I liked how you said just maintaining a certain level of surfing as you age is getting better because all, all the laws of the universe, and we are pointing to you getting worse as you get older.
You get stiffer, you're fighting an uphill battle. So if you're able to maintain, you know, it's, um, it's a form of getting better. But also, like you said, I think getting better at surfing can be seen in, or, or the, the basis for what is getting better is multiple things, you know, and just the maturity.
I think one of the reasons I've gotten better at surfing is not necessarily how I ride the waves, but because of that concept of the art of missing waves and really making it a tangible thing for myself. Like not this obscure kind of thought floating around in my head that sort of floats up every once in a while and I'm like, oh yeah, remember that?
But like, no, this is like a, now it's a written down, like, it's almost like I've journaled it to myself, you know? That to, to be able to miss waves, you know, in a, in a graceful way is a version of me getting better as a surfer and not taking away from my family or from, you know, things I need to do in my life because I just need to go surfing right now.
The waves are good and I gotta go, you know, like what kind of person is that, that you have to bail on things because of surfing? That's, in my opinion, that's sort of not a good surfer because like I said, a surfer's just a person, and if a person is bailing on family or these things. Then you're not a great person.
I'm not saying you're a bad person. I'm just saying you, you could be better and that would also make you a good surfer. You know what I mean? But you know, the, the, the standard for what you're measuring against. It's, it's important to, to identify that scale. That's how we can get better.
Michael Frampton: Yeah. Even letting go of FOMO as you age. That's getting better at surfing.
Coach Chris: Yeah. Yes. That's, that's, that was it. Yeah. Thank you for saying it better than I did. It took me like a hundred words and you did it in a couple, but like, yeah. Not having fomo. Don't do that to yourself. Why torture yourself? Because if you really think about it, there's millions of waves breaking every moment all the time.
And some of 'em are epic world class. Some of 'em are very far away. Some of 'em are within reach and you're not riding those 'cause you don't know about. So don't torture yourself just because you know the waves were good and you can't go, you know, there's good waves all over the place every moment of the day.
You're missing them all. Don't worry about it. It's all good.
Yeah. Well, that's another point is like, there's a famous quote from aki, which goes something like, if you are not surfing good waves, you're denying yourself as a surfer, and I believe that you're not surfing. Yeah. Like, you know what it's like, okay.
When you, when you, when you go on a tropical surf trip and you surf one of those long period swells on a windless day at a reef break, it's just, you know, you would, you would travel, you know, two days to surf three of those waves and come home. And come home happy. You know, that's how good, you know, a good quality, thick, long period swell on a windless reef is, you know, you'd swap three of those waves for four, four hour sessions at your local average beach break, you know?
Sure. Sure. But I think well part, you know, let's keep going down the philoso, uh, like philosophical route and think that it's only because you don't get it all the time. If you had that every single day without question, sort of like the wave pool kind of pickle we're getting ourselves into, if that's always available to you, is it gonna continue to be as sweet?
Is it gonna continue to be so wonderful? It's only because it's uncontrolled. It's out of your ability to consistently take and get that we can't abuse. You know? Like why do drug addicts become drug addicts and alcoholics and people? Because it's something that's consistently available if you seek it out.
And because the human condition is to. Just, we all have a little bit of an addict in ourselves. We want more and more and more of something that we like. Yeah. And so if we could do that with surfing, we'd spoil it for ourselves. It's great that we cannot score all the time that good because it helps us learn to appreciate it when it happens and when it doesn't.
You know, you just putting in your hours and putting in your reps for when it does happen again. Well, I think what, what I was getting at there was it's quality over quantity, I think is something that's Oh yeah. So, you know, you, you maybe, maybe work six weeks in a row in order to save up, to go on a surf trip to get, I got you now.
Yeah. I miss that. To get, to get away from the crowd or. Even specifically, like where I surf is kind of like a novelty point break where even on a good day, maybe one in every 20 waves sort of lines up properly and doesn't have refracted swells and wind chops on it and actually breaks across the point properly.
So I might, it might, I might sit in the right spot and actually just tease a bunch of people into the ones I don't want. Mm-hmm. And then just waiting for my, my detailed eye to choose that one wave that I know is gonna actually. And that's usually not the biggest wave of the set. It's one of the medium ones that doesn't have a wave in front of it or a wave breaking across it.
So I'm teasing everyone into the other ones thinking that I'm hungry, but I'm actually just being patient and selective with, 'cause I'd rather catch two of those in a session and get three good turns in and then jump in my car and go home rather than pump my way and catch waves that don't break properly.
So yeah, quality over quantity as you age, I think is, is better too. And it, it also sort of gives you something to, I also find that surfing when it's new, it's like anything, it really encompasses your, your attention. I just recently, uh, got my motorbike license and when I first started riding the motorbike, I was scared initially because now I've gotta look at the road differently and. I was a hundred percent focused. And now as I sort of getting a bit better, I found myself of being a bit too relaxed almost. Mm-hmm. But, but then what I have to do now is think, okay, I just need to look for the details on the road so that Tom Carroll sort of.
His tip comes into my mind, and I always, I'm always looking, even when I'm sitting out the back waiting for a set, I'm just really looking at that little sliver of horizon and just trying to predict where's that next set coming? Is it a wide set? Is it a bigger set? Is it a smaller set? So really just I think focusing in on the, on the, on the details with the intention of looking for the best of the best on that day.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like a, a, like a new mount, a new mountain biker who's coming down a track, you, you wanna stay on that meter wide track, right? You wanna stay on the track and you're like, it's so exciting. You're going fast and well, you think you're going fast. And then as you get better and better at mountain biking, you're starting to look where exactly is the center of my tire going?
And what's the fastest, right. What's the fastest way through that? Through that, that track. Just like with surfing. Mm-hmm. Right. Initially you see that one swell coming in. Right. And now, now you're looking, oh, there's actually three swells in the water and there's a wind chop and there's refractions. And I'm actually looking for the part of the wave where the water's moving, mo moving most, and where, where exactly am I gonna put my rail?
So you, your focus narrows in and becomes more detail orientated. It helps you to surf faster, but it also helps you to choose better quality waves and, and helps you to keep focused through your surf as well.
Yeah. Yeah. It takes one of the most important qualities of, of surfer, which is their positioning, and it just keeps tightening up as you, you know, you're get, like you said, the details.
Now you're no longer trying to be in this spot, you're trying to be in that spot, you know, this tiny little one between your fingers compared with the big wide, you know, broad range. But, uh, I love the way you talk about, you know, seeing waves and, and it's, it's putting to words some of the things that I think and, but sometimes struggle with articulating, when a wave is just like you said, there's always some nuance, there's always some detail to be looking at when a wave's coming in, even on the most perfect of conditioned days, there's little humps and, you know, things happening in the water that, , cause you to maybe just shift over a lane to catch the wave or, you know, and I just, I, I like the way you describe it.
I'd love to surf with you. You, you're not, you're not around here though, huh? You what? What's your local spot by the way? What's that point break? Are you allowed to say
I'm in Hawke's Bay? I'll keep the spot quiet, but, yeah. I'm in New Zealand in, in a place called Hawke's Bay at the moment. , But you know, a few years ago I was based in, in Malibu and I was doing a lot of surf guiding and coaching out there.
\, I miss that place. It's such ama, amazing part of the world. , But yeah, no, I think that the, the more I. The more I think about the details and the more I'm able to focus in on it, the more I get outta surfing. I think it's the same with anything in life, right? You actually make, it makes me remember a story which I don't think I've told on this podcast, so I'll, I'll tell it to you now, is I was out great.
I was out at ATU surfing, oh gosh, must have been 2016, right when Jack Robinson had started, , on tour and he had sort of made the WCT and was this sort of tube writing savant. I dunno if you remember when he first came in, did he win the pipe masters or he did? Well, it was with his, he was amazing in the tube.
Well, I think he was, he was pretty good. Not to get off of your story, he was pretty good in the beginning, but he hit a year early in his career, but not necessarily the first one, if I remember correctly, where it was like, whoa. He's, or maybe that was before he, maybe he hit that stride before he even joined the WSL.
But anyway, sorry. Continue with your story. Yeah. It might've been 2017. Anyway, I'm sitting out the back at ATU waiting for a, a, a wider set. And Jack Robinson's dad paddles up to me, and he's a very talkative chap. , And I'd, I'd met him a few years earlier, , at a local comp down in Manley where I was living at the time, in, in Sydney.
And he recognized me and just started talking my ear off. Hmm. And I just said to him, Jack and Jack had just come on the tour and everyone was talking about how good he was in the tube. And I asked him, I said, , why do you think Jack is so good in the barrel as such a young surfer? And he just looked at me and he said, he builds boats inside of bottles.
And I was like, oh, what, what? That's an interesting, why did, why say that? And he said, yeah. Because it takes him hours and it's fine. Motor control and a very, very clear, focused intention on the finer details. That's how you build boats inside of bottles, and that's how he rides tubes so well. Huh. Which blew my mind at the time.
And I remember a wave came in totally. A wave came in and I took it and I never saw him again. That's hilarious. Wow. What an interesting answer. And, and the way you tell it sounds like he's very sure that that's what it is. Well, I, but I see it and, and I, for me, if I were to describe why that's a contributing factor is just like that.
The precision of it. You don't have all the space of a desk to, you know, scatter items and whatever. You know, you are consolidated into this one tiny space. Not only that, but it bottlenecks even further and to, you have to fit your pieces through there. So that's a, that's a really interesting take on why he's such a good tube writer.
Yeah, I love it. Leave it to the old timers to have one of those kinds of answers for you, you know? No, no. Straightforward. Like, oh, he, he, you know, he points his hand and he looks at it on his way out. None, none of that stuff. It's the building the boats in the bottle. That's what does it. Yeah. Yeah. I, I always remember that it stuck with me.
Yeah. And I think, , you gotta have, , focus, you're detailed, focused for hours on end to do that, you know? Mm. So if you're out, if you're out surfing, . An intense wave in Western Australia where he is from. , , You have to be focused the whole time.
You can't just, a lot of, I think a lot of people think that you can just sit there in between sets and wait for a set to come in. That's not what good surfers do. They don't. No, of course not. No. You know, what you, you ever tried to talk to, to a good experienced surfer? Not that they've just, they won't even hear, they're gone.
They won't hear you. You think they're being rude. They actually be the friendliest guy you've ever met in the carpark. But when they're surfing, they won't even acknowledge your presence because they are hyper-focused on the horizon. They wanna know when that next set is coming in and they wanna start paddling for it before you've even seen it.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I remember surfing with, with Nation Nathan Hedge once and everyone's sitting in the water waiting for a set and Nathan Hedge starts paddling. And everyone's like, why are you paddling? And, and he paddled like an animal. And next thing you know, , 20 seconds later everyone else sees the set and starts paddling.
But he's already in the right position and he's already moving. He's already hungry. It doesn't matter if someone was in a better position than him. Nathan Hedges wants it more and is actually in a better position so he gets the wave. 'cause he's so focused on the details. That little sliver of 'cause that's all it is when you think about it, you're looking at such a thin sliver of horizon to see those sets come, come in.
No wonder it takes so long to learn. You know, we are looking for such fine little details on the horizon. So that's what I'm always, I think that's what helps keep me present , that's what I'm trying to get better at surfing really is, is reading the ocean and, and the finer details. Not just when I'm surfing a wave, like a mountain biker, going down a track, but also while I'm.
Trying to predict where the next set is coming in and where it's gonna break. And , you using your peripheral vision to sort of be aware of where everyone else is, who's paddling so much going on. 'cause I think it's just as much, especially nowadays about reading the ocean, it's about reading the crowd as well.
Knowing who can, yeah. Yeah. So you've gotta have a , a minor in psychology as well to, to get wave of, well you said a really good, you said a really good thing. Um, well, two things I wanted to talk. One I'll just say is that I really like that explanation for why surfers can seem a little cold, in the water.
, And that's a really good explanation for why. It's because they're focused, you know, their, their mind's elsewhere. They're, this isn't. Chit chat hour. It's not coffee time, it's, it's, I'm out here to, to catch a few waves. And that takes a high focus, especially as you get better and you know what you're looking for.
And then the other thing I liked was, the intention, when you show intention, , like Nathan Hedge was so intent on his positioning and getting there for that wave that even if somebody had been in better position, perhaps they just sort of, alright, go ahead. You, you want it more. You know? And I think that's a big, that's a, that's a thing that comes up quite a bit in, um, in my sessions with students because naturally a student, a beginner or even a, you know, a practicing surfer in their early years can easily show hesitation.
, They can easily back off or think that someone else is going when really, , that's, that says a lot about. What happens for you in the water? Do you get waves or not Just how intent are you, you can get waves that you wouldn't have otherwise gotten just by continuing for a little longer or showing your intention and, and you, because I, I'm just saying, I've, I always want my students to be respectful and, and respect good, you know, surf etiquette.
But the, the gap between when you're , exercising good etiquette, and when you're just being hesitant, it's, it's usually a large one. There's a lot more room to continue and still be polite and, and then find out like, oh, that person's actually not in good position. Everything, something changed.
They're pulling back. They don't want the wave or they saw you going and they just wanna let you go. They didn't want that wave that bad in the first place, but no one else was pa Just so many circumstances and situations unfold. As they progress. And if you don't show intention long enough up until the point of the decision, you know, there, it does come a point where it's like, okay, decision time.
If I go, am I burning somebody or am I doing something bad? Or did everything change from just moments ago when I thought I shouldn't go? It's a good talking point that often comes up with my students and myself of intention, you know, have, have a little bit more commitment and, and intention and, and 'cause it displays in your body language and it, and it's, it reads as beginners look hesitant.
So you can almost fool people with your intention as that you're a little bit better than you are just by, just keep going, just keep going a little longer. Keep setting that wave up, pull back if it really is a, a no-go situation.
Yes. Every surfer has approaches it so differently. Not everyone's out there just to catch lots of waves sometimes I think the nice person in us thinks that, and we let.
There may be, and then they don't even catch the wave anyway. Like, oh, I could've had that one, but yeah, yeah, yeah. You could, you should have wanted it more, you know, it's not unethical to be hungry to catch waves and Right. There are surfers out there who don't wanna talk to anyone. There's some surfers that go out there to talk to everyone, and there's everything in between.
And even, gosh, even my 10-year-old, even my 10-year-old, sometimes I paddle up to him and like, do you want me to help you catch you over? He's like, you know what, dad? I just love sitting out here and just looking at the, and, uh, okay. So, wow, that's a really mature thing for a 10-year-old to say. I know. It blows my mind sometimes.
I'm like, you'd think he'd be hungry and wanting to catch waves, but no, he's just, sometimes he's happy just to sit out the back for a bit and enjoy it. I bet. I,
I bet it has a lot to do with, did you, uh, did somebody introduce surfing to you and your family, or did you find it on your own and, and kind of found, pursue it yourself?
I found it on my own. Right. Basically. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's, that's what I thought, sort of felt like, it, it, it works with my philosophy, what I'm just gonna say. We both found surfing the same way. Like it wasn't given to us through our family, our fathers or something, and we got to do it so easily, so early.
We, I, I had to fight for it. I really had to fight hard. I had to save money to get my first surfboard. It wasn't easy. Mm. So when I got it, I was hungry, you know, I really wanted it. Whereas I, I, I think your son maybe has a little bit more of a healthy approach because it's a, it's a little bit more abundant for him.
He can get it easily, you know, just like you said, he, his dad's always there to come right up to him and offer a help for, to get a wave. So it probably helps him to see, you know, the bigger picture a little better. Yeah. Whereas us, we were so desperate just to get on waves and, and keep progressing and in the way that we thought progression meant, you know?
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm also aware, I'm aware of the time. Did you have to go at on the hour or have I got you for a bit longer? No, no, no. Yeah, you got me. I let it rip.
Michael Frampton: So what's the best piece of surfing advice that you've ever received?
Coach Chris: Personally, I don't know if it's the best, but it just came to mind. And it is, just because they can't surf good doesn't mean they can't fight.
One of my, uh, role model surfer guides, you know, uh, like informal. I went through a period of my life where I was, didn't really have a lot of friends to go surfing with. But this older guy, well, I guess he's probably how old I am now, uh, in his later thirties, he would take me surfing all the time. He was a really.
Important figure in my life, like a father. I have a great father, still do. , But I was also a teenager so my dad wasn't as cool to me then, you know, and this guy was kind of like my temporary father that I actually respected and listened to and he surfed and it was just this really in important good person in my life.
And he taught me so many things, but paddled back out one time, all fired up, you know, 'cause somebody dropped in on me and the guy was, he dropped in and went straight. He didn't know what he was doing. It was clear as day. And I'm all hot and heavy and I'm like, oh man, that guy Jack, blah blah, blah. And I'm talking up, you know, Mr.
Big shot over here probably was just starting to get somewhere with my surfing. Like, you know, I could actually do a little something, go down the line. I could, you know, do what I wanted. Yeah. To some extent. And so I'm getting all proud and cocky and he goes. Man, just 'cause he can't surf doesn't mean you can't fight.
You be careful and don't get yourself beat up, you know? And it actually landed. I was like, damn, that's true. You know, like, who knows who this guy is? Like, what if I go, you know, acting all Mr. Big shot? And I just get completely humbled. , I, I mean it might not be the best, but it's up there. It's good advice.
And I, and I have a follow up story for that. My, a good friend of mine was teaching a, a, a surf lesson, you know, and in the tourist thing, you know, and, and he's, he's out there with this student. It's, it's coming up on the end time. So he is getting a little anxious to get them in on a wave. And one of the local hot shots is just getting wave after wave, lapping 'em, you know?
And you know, mostly. That's just how it goes. Good surfers get good waves and more waves. But I think he got to the point where he is like, dude, next wave we gotta go in. We're taking it. Just so you know. And he tells the young guy, and young guy goes, my friend, the instructor launches his student into the wave and the young guy goes, he's like, he gets upset about it.
And he goes and tells his father, you know, he is like. Old enough to be mad and wanna start something not old enough to, you know, do it on his own. He goes and tells his dad, who's also a, you know, a little bit of a hothead. Mm. Comes up to my friend and he gets in his face and he is yelling and doing all these things, surf lessons, this and you, and blah, blah, blah.
And my friend's like, dude, what, what are you doing? Like, relax. Like, I, I was, I was working for you when your son was born. Remember when I covered your shift and you went and your son was like, like, dude, calm down. Okay. All right. So anyway, whole situation, tempers down, walks away, nothing happens. And the student goes, Hey man, I'm really proud of you.
The way you handled that. That was really, you were really mature and calm. I just want you to know though, if it got bad, I'm a black belt in Jiujitsu, I would've, it would've been no problem for me to handle this. And it just, he, he texted me right away. I wasn't there for this, but he texted me and he goes, dude.
Just 'cause you can't surf, doesn't mean you can't fight. And I've told that story before. So he thought of me right away and I loved it. I was so, I was so proud of him for the way he handled himself. And I was just so, like, it was such a, Hollywood moment, you know, to have it actually happen where this guy is quietly standing behind you.
You think he's some kook who can't surf and really, he's like a great fighter who would know how to handle himself. No problem. I like that. Gosh, I, I'll extend it too. Just 'cause they can't surf doesn't mean they're not mentally ill. I had one guy who was Oh yeah. A very eccentric, , extroverted, , surfer and he was terrible at surfing.
So we're just kind of. Surf around him a little bit and be a bit, sort of maybe rude to him. 'cause he would always try and surf places that were out of his leg. Mm. And he'd get angry. He'd never do anything about it. He almost, it sort of seemed like a weird dude. And he, I must have pissed him off 'cause he really didn't like me.
And then he loosened the wheel nuts on my car one day. Holy cow. Yeah. That's diabolical. Yeah. So be Whoa. You never know what someone's capable of. Geez. That's insane. I know. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Well there you have it. You know, be a good person and you're a good surfer. Yeah. What is some of the biggest mistakes or the biggest mistake that you see that sort of, that beginner early intermediate make some of your, some of your students?
Is there some common threads?
Sure. Yeah. Um,
There's a list of them, you know, but I can't help myself, but say, especially when it comes to adults, not bookie boarding, first, not learning how to play in the ocean. First. People come and they wanna learn how to surf and they wanna be serious about it right away.
And I respect that. I take, I take the learning process seriously, but there is a lot to learn in play. It's how children learn the whole world through play. And when it comes to the beach and surfing, boogie boarding is the version of play that we've many, most of us have done to learn how to surf. So there's a lot of basic principles there that are, are totally, they become brand new when you're doing it on a surfboard.
But a surfboard is bigger, it's harder, it's, it's more difficult to manage. It's, it can be more dangerous. You get less reps. So it, it, it, it just really sets you up for a difficult journey when you don't have a little foundation of, you know, jumping on a boogie over and over again, you know, a hundred times in an hour trying to set your rail, pull into a little closeout slide up on the beach, how to roll with the wave when you wipe all those things.
That's, that's one of the big ones for me. And then there's the obvious, you know, positions on the, the board people using. Their body position on the board to try and prevent a nose dive, which so often leads to nose diving because now your board's not moving efficiently. You're not able to tilt over the ledge of the wave when you should.
You get delayed and caught up in the lip. And when you finally do catch the wave, the things, you know, vertical and ready to go, you should have been in it moments ago. There's those counterintuitive solutions, um, that people use or the, the solution is counterintuitive. The, the obvious, you know, solution to the, the beginner is like, oh, move back on my board so I don't nose dive.
If I'm way back on my board, I won't nose dive. And no, actually move up or be in the right position, catch the wave properly on time and have a much more, you know, user-friendly. But that's like obvious stuff. I prefer more like the big picture. Get on a Boogie, go ride a Boogie board.
Like have it in your quiver. At the very least when you get your first surfboard, also get a boogie board. 'cause the, it just opens up your world of opportunities and when you can go surf, you know, when you can go have a fun and get a couple reps in. Totally. Yeah. Like, did you watch that, , episode of the Tim Ferris show where he decided surfing was something he wanted to get good at as quick as possible.
And he hired Lead Hamilton as a coach. And the fir, that's the first thing lead Hamilton did. I said, right, we're just gonna go, just gonna go and play in the whitewater, no surfboard or anything. I, yeah, I didn't see that, but I love it. I'm so happy to hear that. Because I feel like I'm like, it's like a novel a thing.
I'm saying like, people look at me like, no, no, I wanna learn how to surf. And it's like, yeah, I know this is how. Yep., you wanna learn how to spell, read and write, but you don't wanna learn the alphabet. It's like, you, you can't, yes. You. When one of the, you know, one of the best and most famous surfers in the world didn't start till he was 17, which, who's that?
When I interviewed him, it blew my mind and it didn't even make any sense to me. Robert Wingnut Weaver really didn't start surfing until Wingnut didn't start surfing until 17. That's right. And, and after I dug a little bit deeper, it turns out he'd been body surfing since he was five. That's why. Okay. I got a great story.
My favorite session of the summer last year, I had this woman, brand new, comes through my system, you know, like a normal first timer. Not someone that knows me and skips that all and texts me or something like that. Books blah, blah, blah, does the whole thing. I meet her on the beach. It goes, it's everything is like you'd expect for the first.
Day of a first student, you know, so I do the usual. We go off into the flat water. We have like a nice deep area right adjacent to the, the, the break that's perfect for beginners. But I don't even just 'cause it's perfect for beginners. I don't take beginners straight out. We go to the deep water. I show her how to turn her surfboard while sitting.
I show her how to turn it while she's paddling. I show her how to lay on the board, how to, you know, and she looks great. I'm like, oh, okay, cool. And it's a mellow, gentle day. So I'm like, let's go. Okay, we got 15 minutes left. Let's go over and, and see if we can apply this to catching a wave. And I have no standards, no expectations.
I'll be happy if she catches a wave. And I tell her that, so she does first wave. I'm just like, okay, let's sit up. We're turning, lay down. She lays down perfectly. These are all the little things that go wrong. You know when a wave's coming for a beginner Mm, they can't, all of a sudden they're sitting in the middle of the board trying to turn instead of the tail, like I just showed them and they did it 20 times.
Okay? They lay down and they're all the way up on the nose or vice versa, all the way on the tail, all those things that go wrong, and we're like, okay, let the wave go. You know, it's not going right. She's doing it all perfectly, just like we practice in the flat water. But now with the pressure of a wave and the timing having to be right, she gets the wave.
She, she presses up. I teach my students actually when they're learning, don't stand up. I teach them how to press themselves up as they're be begin, like a beginning to stand up, but in that moment, pause and look down the line and start engaging your rail. So she does that and sort of goes down the line.
I'm like, oh, no way. Come on back out here. Let's do that again. Stand up this time. You know, why not? So she does. Oh, I may have gotten it a little backwards. Maybe her first wave. She just goes straight. But she did all the things so well to catch the wave. I'm like, Hey, let's do your press up and set your rail.
So then she presses up, sets a rails, go down the line. That's what it was. The second time she presses up, doesn't stand up. That's the other thing I appreciated. Didn't have this idea in her head. I have to stand up. I'm surfing. She, she respected my instruction and she stayed in her press up posture, sets her rail and just goes down the line.
I was like, amazing. Alright, bring it back out. We're gonna close the deal. I want you to do everything the same, but this time you can. After you press yourself up and start going down the line, stand all the way up. And she does. You knew that was coming. She goes down the line. She even does a dismount at the end.
It's one of my favorite points of like a good surfer is how do you complete your wave? And for a beginner, you can practice this immediately. Sit down at the end, don't jump off your board. Certainly don't dive. Don't jump on the way. Don't do any of those things. Dismount. Control your finish. Hmm. So I'm, I'm floored.
I'm like, that was insane. That was like the most ideal session you could have with a brand new beginner. First time. I'm like, are you sure you've never surfed before? I felt like Wing Nut, actually, I think it was Wing Nut. And then the summer too when he's like, oh, I'm gonna teach this girl how to surf.
And turns out she's been surfing for years, you know? Was it, was it Wing Nut or was it Pat O'Connell? It's been a while since. Anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I forgot too. But anyway, I felt like she was tricking me. I felt like somebody set me up to play a joke on me and be like, yeah, teach this beginner. But actually she knew how to surf and she swore up and down.
She never surfed before, but she goes, yeah, but you know what I do boogie board all the time. And I was like, ah, thank you. Okay. You are like my new, like I'm gonna do something with you marketing. Like you have to tell this story. We have to make something of this. 'cause it just really, in such a perfect way, proved my point.
That boogie boarding is such a foundation. Standing up is not hard. Catching away, all those things are not hard When you have the foundation, uh, and understanding and the repetition and practice of jumping into waves over and over again, and understanding the feeling of, of a wave lifting you up and all those, you know, basic things, but on a board that's manageable and something you can just buy in the store and do it on your own.
You don't need an instructor. It's not intimidating. Like surfing is to get into, you know, you gotta be a certain type of person that goes and buys a surfboard and just starts trying to surf, you know, it's like mountain climbing, like, or, or like, like serious mountain climbing. I, I wouldn't just go do that by myself.
Hmm. I would find people, I would figure out like, how do I do this correctly so I don't kill myself? You know, like I would respect the sport and the, the dangers of it. And so I feel like I wish more people had that with surfing. Like, oh, okay, I like surfing. It sounds good, but I, I need some guidance here.
I'm not gonna just try and go do it. You know, you wouldn't just go try and climb L cap 10, you know, like, yeah. That's a serious endeavor. You, you, you'd need guidance, you'd need practice and, and work your way up to it. But anyway, that was, it was my story for proving that the Boogie Board is the key. You wanna become a better surfer, you know, in your, in your older years, get a Boogie and your younger years too.
Oh yeah. If you haven't surfed before, it's reading. Reading the ocean is the foundation of Yeah, that's what it's, whether it's body surfing, bodyboarding boogie boarding, or surfing or whatever, it's reading. The oceans surfing's actually really simple, isn't it really? I mean, even it is. It's surfing. Even high performance surfing.
Look at Aki Surf. Watch his body. It barely moves. It's just, yeah. Yeah. It's just rhythm and timing. The way he leans. Even John, John, you know, when he is not doing anything too dynamic, his technique is so subtle. Mm. You know, there's not actually that much movement going on. I think the popup is the hardest maneuver in surfing.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's is the hardest part, isn't it? Because the limitations of like hip mobility and flexibility, especially for the older gentlemen, you know, the gentleman really struggle with the hips and the lower back. You know, they're, they're tight down there and it really makes, , the standup, the, the hard part.
Yeah. Yep. Okay. Well, Chris, tell us about your website before we let you go. Okay. , Built it myself, so it ain't no pro site, , the surf continuum.com is just a, , it's a, well, it, it serves two purposes. It's just, you know, my business and how you find me and, and book a session. But we also built a, like a little bit of a membership library on there.
It was during COVID. I had imagined doing this for a while, and COVID presented the perfect opportunity to have a ton of time and not really feel guilty about sitting inside the house all day, you know? And, . I'm working on something on the computer. So that's when I put my mind to building this library.
And I upload, , our podcast videos, like the moment we record them. You know, I, I'm a little on and off about releasing public episodes, but the membership site has, , a new one all the time. Mm-hmm. , And I slowly catch up to them, you know, publicly. But, then I answer questions from members on there.
They, they can write in and I do, you know, a video question and answer with, , with, with Coach Evan. , And then there's one last part of the puzzle, which is just our videos that inspire us to talk about something analytical or, or just a topic that's basically a podcast, I'd say, but with a video as the.
The main core. And, , so that's been in existence since Yeah. COVID, so that's 2020, I guess. And, , and now we're starting to, to, , evolve it a little bit. We're incorporating a little bit more of a live feature to it. , So one thing I just sort of started coming to the realization is the reason why my most, the most successful aspect of my business is my personal coaching.
That's what keeps me the busiest. That's what really pays the bills. The, the membership site's great. It's a nice machine. That's a little supplemental thing. , But I was just thinking about why, because, you know, it's, it's pretty reasonable. You could easily join if you're interested in getting better at surfing.
It's a really cheap way to get insight from two surfers who really not only have been surfing in their whole lives, but care about trying to, you know, explain. This kind of stuff, beginner stuff and, and getting better at surfing stuff. So I was like, oh, why is it not better? , , or more popular or just, you know, reaching more people.
And the conclusion, whether right or wrong I came to is that I'm not present on it in a live sense. It's, it's totally, totally different when you watch a video, an archival version or a past video compared with when you can participate in a, a group setting. , And that also brought up that that also creates a community.
When you can join with other people who are in your position, you start to have this ability to be part of something. And , let's face it, surf culture is tough to crack into, , especially older. , Surfers are not the most welcoming.
, Not all, not many, but, , I guess because, well, I, I don't know. I don't want to go there, but whatever it is, it's, it's tough. I, for some people to find their people, and if you wanna keep surfing and be consistent about, , your practice, it really, really helps when you have other people to sort of go with or know are in the same piece of the journey with you.
And so, yeah, that's where we're going now. We, we did our first live call recently, and it went great. It was really exciting to have people like to see, . Some excitement around it. And, uh, yeah, we're gonna continue to do that. So create this. Just, you know, I, one thing I know for sure is that you, you, nothing comes out perfectly formed.
You have to just start. And let it evolve into what it needs to be. And so that's what this membership site has been. It's, you know, just start, it wasn't perfect, it's just these videos of us recording things and now the live version is the same. It's not a perfect version of what, but as we do them, we're realizing, oh, okay, we can do this and that.
And, , I would definitely encourage anybody to check it out because you can do it just for a month and see one live call and if it fits or doesn't. Yep. , Okay. Yeah. And that's cool. That's the website. So if, if someone out there listening happens to be in the New York area, they can book a one-on-one session with you as well in person?
Yeah. Yeah. So I'm in Montauk that's on the east end of Long Island. As far as the East Coast Con is concerned, it's one of the better places, you know, to be a surfer. We have. Probably the most consistency, , maybe Cape Hatteras does a little better than us, but also on the West coast in Southern California is my partner coach Evan.
And so from the same website, , they'll be able to link up with one of us, whether it's on the east coast, in, uh, Montauk or West Coast and around the orange County, you know, San Diego area. Okay, great. So listeners, if you liked Chris's philosophy and you wanna learn more, you can do one-on-one, , with him or his business partner in those two areas.
And of course you can go check out some uh, at www.surfcontinuum.com and what we didn't. End up talking about was your podcast the Kook cast? So the, oh yeah. Obvious. Obviously people listening are into podcasts and into surfing, so yeah. , Chris has a massive, and Chris and Coach Evan have a massive, , library there at K Cast, uh, on whatever podcast platform you tune in on.
So go and check that out as well. Chris, uh, anything else to add? No, I think we did some good, covered some good ground here. Awesome. I appreciate your time and uh, really I'll put there'll be links to all that stuff in the show notes as always. Thanks listeners. Thanks for tuning in and keep surfing.
Thanks Chris, you.
The Surf Mastery Podcast:
For the passionate surfer - whether you're a weekend warrior, a surf dad, or an older surfer - this podcast is all about better surfing and deeper stoke. With expert surf coaching, surf training, and surfing tips, we’ll help you catch more waves, refine your paddling technique, and perfect your pop up on a surfboard. From surf workouts to handling wipeouts, chasing bigger waves, and mastering surf technique, we’re here to make sure you not only improve but truly enjoy surfing more - so you can get more out of every session and become a wiser surfer. Go from Beginner or intermediate Surfer to advanced