69 Wingnut - Endless Fun
Think you're too old to start surfing — or stuck as an intermediate forever? What if a longboard legend told you it’s not too late, and the path forward is more fun than you ever imagined?
In this laid-back yet wisdom-packed episode, Wingnut (yes, from Endless Summer 2) opens up about surf coaching, late-bloomer breakthroughs, why most adults pick the wrong board, and how elite-level surfers actually think about wave selection. Whether you're an intermediate hitting a plateau or a stoked beginner, this conversation reveals what really unlocks better surfing — and why most surf instruction misses the mark.
Learn why longboards aren't just beginner tools — and how to actually progress faster by using them
Understand how wave selection and lineup strategy is the #1 overlooked skill in recreational surfing
Discover why most adult surfers are held back by psychology more than physical ability — and how to change that
Play this episode now and learn how to stop plateauing and start flowing — with advice from one of surfing’s most charismatic coaches.
https://buellsurf.com/
http://www.surflight.com/
Key Points
Wingnut shares his background in surf coaching, including his work with the O'Neill Surf Academy in Europe and his current role guiding private surf trips and coaching adults.
Wingnut discusses the challenges adult surfers face, particularly time constraints due to family responsibilities, and how these factors affect their progress in surfing.
Wingnut explains his coaching philosophy, emphasizing the importance of wave selection and initial positioning in the lineup for successful surfing.
Wingnut shares insights on overcoming timidness and improving one's position in the lineup to enhance surfing experience and effectiveness.
Wingnut describes the transformative experience of surfing challenging waves like Cloudbreak and how it improves overall surfing skills.
Wingnut highlights the significance of choosing the right surfboard size and type based on wave conditions and personal skill level for optimal surfing performance.
Wingnut emphasizes the importance of adaptability and learning from mistakes in surfing, advocating for surfing without a leash to enhance self-reliance and contemplation of errors.
Wingnut discusses the environmental impact of surfboard manufacturing and advocates for choosing high-quality, durable surfboards over cheaper, disposable options to promote sustainability.
Wingnut recommends supporting local surfboard manufacturers and highlights the benefits of investing in long-lasting, high-quality surfboards.
Outline
Surf Coaching and Teaching
Wingnut, known for their role in 'The Endless Summer 2,' has been a surf coach since the film's release.
Wingnut started the O'Neill Surf Academy in Europe, which operated in seven countries over seven weeks, teaching 50 kids each day.
Wingnut's coaching approach focuses on getting people involved in surfing, regardless of brand affiliations, believing that early engagement leads to lifelong commitment.
Currently, Wingnut's primary income source is guiding private surf trips and coaching, primarily for adult clients and their children.
Wingnut believes that kids are better at learning to surf due to their lack of preconceived notions about failure and their unlimited energy and time.
Adults face greater barriers to improving in surfing, primarily due to time constraints from work and family responsibilities.
Wingnut's coaching includes both local sessions and trips, where clients receive more focused and extended coaching.
Wingnut does not focus on coaching young, up-and-coming surfers, preferring to work with adults.
Wingnut's coaching includes psychological support, helping clients overcome mental barriers and build confidence in their surfing.
Trust and a level of comfort are essential in Wingnut's coaching approach, aiming to fix multiple problems, many of which are mental.
Wingnut emphasizes the connection between a person's surfing and their overall life, suggesting that improvements in one area can lead to improvements in the other.
Professional Surfing Career and Skill Development
Wingnut's professional surfing career saw significant improvements after participating in 'Endless Summer 2,' gaining exposure to a variety of wave types and learning from local experts.
The experience of surfing with experts like Jerry Lopez and Sean Thompson at iconic spots like G-Land and Jeffries Bay significantly elevated Wingnut's surfing skills.
Wingnut attributes a major skill leap to spending time with Mark Martenson, learning about different equipment and surfing styles, particularly single fin pocket style surfing and nose riding.
Wingnut started surfing at 17 with a 9'6 Dave Sweet surfboard, transitioning from bodysurfing.
Wingnut believes in letting children come to surfing at their own pace, avoiding forcing them into the sport.
Wingnut advises against adults starting on too small a surfboard too early, advocating for a gradual transition from larger to smaller boards to master the dynamics of surfing.
Wingnut emphasizes the importance of choosing the right equipment for the conditions, suggesting that fun and learning are more important than fitting a board in a car or following trends.
Surfing Philosophy and Life Lessons
Wingnut highlights adaptability as a key life lesson from surfing, emphasizing the need to quickly adjust to changing ocean conditions and overcome mistakes.
Wingnut advocates for surfing without a leash to encourage contemplation of mistakes and improve commitment to finishing waves properly.
Wingnut views surfing as an art form, valuing the takeoff, performance, and kickout of a wave as expressions of skill and commitment.
Wingnut encourages surfers to understand and appreciate the effort and craftsmanship that goes into making quality surfboards and the importance of caring for the ocean environment.
Wingnut suggests that new surfers should invest in higher-quality, more durable equipment to support the sport's growth and environmental stewardship.
Wingnut recommends supporting local surf industry manufacturers, highlighting the pride and quality associated with locally made surfboards.
Transcription
Michael
Welcome back to the Surf Mastery Podcast. Inspiration and education for better surfing. Big thanks to all those that have donated to the show, and a special thanks to Julian from New Zealand, who made a donation that was substantially bigger than the others. I actually emailed him thinking that he had bumped an extra zero, but no, he replied saying that he'd listened to all the episodes and that it was easily worth the price of a surfboard. So thank you, Julian. The show continues. Next week we've got... Devin Howard coming to talk about mid-lengths. But today's episode is with Robert Weaver, mostly known as Wingnut from The Endless Summer 2. What you may not know about Wingnut is he's been a surf coach since then. This was an awesome conversation. Wingnut is incredibly intelligent and articulate, deeply funny, and just so generous. I was actually surprised that he agreed to do this. I give you my conversation with... wait, Wingnut, why did you agree to do this?
Wingnut
Podcast? Yeah, I wanted to learn how to do Loom. You know, I'm a huge fan of... I guess surf instruction, surf coaching, trying to help people get better at it. And... you know, years ago I did—I started the O'Neill Surf Academy in Europe with Richard Schmidt, and I did that for O'Neill Europe. And we ran through seven countries over seven weeks. And we did 50 kids each day, five days in a row in each country, and then we would move on. So it really helped me understand how fun it is to get people involved in our sport. And back then, you know, there was all this—the brand battles—who's cooler, O'Neill, Quiksilver, you know, Billabong. I thought it was more important to get more people into the sport, and then the brands could later differentiate who was more important to them. But my marketing background convinced me that if I could get the kids that were under 15 dialed into O'Neill because we taught them how to surf and they can't get there without their parents, that means their parents at the end of the year, when they're buying their back-to-school clothing, if they're debating between Quiksilver and O'Neill—well, the O'Neill guys taught my kid how to surf. The pre-teen, and I had the parent with the money... dialed in on O'Neill and I had the kids hooked on surfing for the rest of their life. So that's kind of how I got involved with, you know, teaching people how to...
Michael
Surf. That's what you still do today, correct?
Wingnut
So my primary—awkwardly said—source of income is I guide private surf trips and I do coaching.
Michael
Do you still work with the younger or... what’s your typical...
Wingnut
Client? Most of my clients are adults, and then it's their children that get involved as they become more involved. I mean, kids are brilliant because they've never learned failure, and... right. As you get older, you learn there's things you can't do or that they're hard to do. Whereas the kids are like, "You can do it. I can do it." Right? So kids pick up any sport at any time and they've got unlimited energy, unlimited time, and unlimited resources thanks to their parents. Whereas the adult has a job, has a family, has all these things that restrict their time and ability to progress in the sport.
Michael
Do you think that's the biggest barrier for the adult—someone coming later in—is that the biggest barrier, the time factor for getting better at surfing?
Wingnut
100%. They're supporting themselves, their family. I mean, if you're an adult that is married, then immediately half your time is gone, committed to your spouse. You have kids, then it's even more so because it's your responsibility to provide for them, to be with them, to be part of their growth. Your growth starts to take a backseat the larger your family is.
Michael
So when you're training clients, you're on a trip with them, so you get a little bit more of their time together.
Wingnut
It's both ways, right? So I have local clients here in Santa Cruz. They're here—when they're here for two or three hours, they're all mine. They're all focused. But when we're on a trip, then it's totally different. Then we can be working in the morning on physical stuff. We're talking diet. We're talking where we're going to surf. We're reviewing images of the day before surf. And we'll get two or three surfs a day while we're on a trip.
Michael
Yeah, I mean, you've been doing this a long time. You must have been one of the first surf coaches to really... step outside of training the grom who is the next up and coming.
Wingnut
Right. And for me, I don't think it made sense for me to try to teach an up-and-coming grom. First off, my specialty would be longboarding, and there's really not a career path that way. So why would you come to me for that? And there were great surf coaches—but back when I was doing it, started 25 years ago, there was nobody doing that anyway. It was just abuse from older good surfers. That's how you trained groms.
Michael
Yes.
Wingnut
Right? The retired pro or still existing pro—he found a kid that he thought was pretty good and he just harassed the shit out of them until they got even better. And it was that... abuse from a higher-ranking peer that made you a better surfer.
Michael
Yeah. Yeah, there certainly... it was an initiation time. Right.
Wingnut
Right. You wanted to get to the point where they stopped giving you shit. Right. And that's how I think that went on. So when I started doing my first trips, it wasn't so much about coaching at that point as it was about organizing a trip. Somebody wanted to go to Costa Rica for the first time, and he knew I had it dialed in. Somebody wanted to go to, you know, Fiji, Australia, you know, the Maldives—whatever. And they came to me to put together trips. But while we were on those trips, then the pedantic Wingnut took over and I was, you know, "You're doing this wrong. You know there's an easier way to do this. You know you suck."
Michael
Yeah, okay. I mean, that's what's in the... you know the hunting culture—it's outfitting, right? And that's the smart way to do it. I was just previously living in Malibu, and that's what—you know, I was always a surf coach standing on the beach filming. And then when I went to live in Malibu, people didn't even want that. They just wanted me to go surfing with them. So I was the surf guide. And then I could talk about—and for me it was like, if someone hesitated on a wave, I would then say, "Where else are you hesitating in your life?" Now, is that the sort of approach that you have with your coaching too?
Wingnut
Well... let's not talk about the psychological aspect because I'd really have to raise my rates if I got paid for how much time I talk people off the ledge of their real lives.
Michael
Well, that's—I mean, any good coach, right? I think has...
Wingnut
That. Well, and that's it. It's a level of trust, I think, that you establish with somebody you work with. You know, it's not a one-time thing—session, hopefully. Right? They didn't come to you to figure out how to take off next to The Rock, you know, at Rockview and figure out, "Can I get right next to it?" That’s a one-time thing, right? They’re coming to you to fix a bunch of problems, and half of them are mental.
Michael
Well, I think someone's surfing and the way they interact with the ocean is a reflection of what's going on in the rest of their life.
Wingnut
I think that's absolutely correct.
Michael
Let's shift gears back a little bit and can I ask you—through your professional surfing career, you personally—do you remember any plateaus in your performance and your skill level that you managed to get over? And do you remember how you got over?
Wingnut
I think there were two major shifts, I think, that were for me most noticeable in my career. And one—and it was funny because it's not really—I don't even think about it competitively like before Endless Summer. Because I was just chipping away at getting better and better at how I wanted to ride a longboard. And I was competing in the club events. There wasn’t a pro tour at the time. There was NSSA and things like that. But the club events were great. And I was doing those and having good success with it. But I think what really happened was... the experience that I got traveling around the world doing Endless Summer 2 gave me a broader experience with wave types that I'd never seen before. And so I had to figure out how to ride waves. I mean, I grew up riding longboards in California, right? That’s a pretty limited style of wave I'm going to see. Beach breaks, sometimes big beach break when we have a good swell, and otherwise point breaks. So it was a really limited experience that I had. I mean, I did live on Oahu for two years, and so I had a little bit of Hawaii and North Shore experience. But Endless Summer 2, getting to go to places—and I think this is what kind of patterned my career—was I got to surf G-Land with Gerry Lopez. I got to surf Jeffreys Bay with Shaun Tomson. So I was given the guide and tutelage of the best ever that had surfed that place. So that immediately elevated my game because I wasn’t there just figuring out "How do I ride this wave better?" I was told how to ride the wave better. And so that—coming out of Endless Summer 2, I think I was ten times a better surfer going out than going into it.
Michael
Interesting, yeah. So it's not just experiencing different waves but getting to surf those waves with people who already knew, had already made the mistakes that they saw you about to make and...
Wingnut
They... and literally G-Land is a great experience because Gerry would sit out there with Pat O'Connell and I, and a set would come in and he'd say, "Right, like Pat, you go on number two, I'm gonna go on number three because it's better. Wing, that number four is not too shitty—you can have it. And Laird's gonna take whatever he wants." So I mean, it was like he set us up on waves that we should be able to succeed on. And for me, the number one thing I do when I'm guiding people is—it's wave selection, right? We've seen enough waves to know whether that wave is going to be makeable all the way through for the skill level of the surfer that we're working with. Right? Kelly can make any wave. But you're not Kelly, right? You need one that has a little bit of a softer angle, softer edge, and you're going to make that one. And you will learn so much by making it. And then when you want to challenge yourself, I'm like, go for it. And you'll find out why you didn't make that wave, and we'll talk about it when you come back. Set up that way for me by having Shaun do that, by having Nat do that, by having Gerry do that. It helped me figure out a great way to help people surf.
Michael
That's, I mean, priceless experience for sure. And is that what a lot of your coaching is—just helping clients with wave selection?
Wingnut
All right. It starts with that, right? You know, you've got to pick a really good wave before you can have a chance to surf really well on it. And one of the things I see most people do wrong—it starts out with initial positioning, right? Using a lineup. I mean... you know, and I’ll say it right out front—in Australia, the quality of surfer is way higher, the skill level is way higher than it is in America. There’s no question about it. Most competitive surf lineups in the world. And you really have to have your shit figured out. It’s a lot less so. It’s a lot more recreational here. And the biggest mistake people make here is they don’t use a lineup when they surf. They don’t figure out where the good wave breaks from and what it looks like. And so they don’t go back to that same spot where success starts. And so that’s the first thing I try to like drill in—figure out where the makeable wave starts. Then the work of riding it comes in afterwards, but give them a starting point with a high level of success.
Michael
Yeah, triangulating your position. And you have to do it within it... I mean, I remember I lived in Avalon, surfing Little Avalon for a while. And man, the takeoff zone is so small. If that set comes and you're out of position...
Wingnut
Right, and that's what—like, and again, for me, it's like absolutely a secret gift. And I don’t give it to anyone. Like the normal crew that I surf with—like, I might paddle past you. I still recognize you're there and it's your turn. But I'm going to where I'm going to take off on this wave when it's my turn. So like getting people—my guests—comfortable paddling past people, I'm like, "Hey, nod at them, say hi," all this and that. But we want to sit where the perfect wave takeoff is. And they will go for their wave. And you know, you're taking turns with a smaller group, right? There could be 30 people in the water, but you're taking turns with like five or ten that are in the best takeoff spot, right? You're not taking turns with 30 or 40 people.
Michael
It’s a really interesting point because I think that for the adult beginner, there's a lot of timidness that stops them doing that. And they just sit in the corner and they wait their turn and they get the leftovers. You get no time.
Wingnut
But if they're going to sit—yeah. If you're down 50 yards from me, you're not getting a turn. I can't count that far. I can count to 10. I've got the 10 people around me. I'm pretty sure whose turn it is as we go back out. And that's what I work with—go to that right spot and then be confident about your turn. Like you've waited, everybody in your circle is gone, and somebody just comes back out, sits just on the other side of you and spins for that wave—it’s not his turn. You know, it's you. But if you don't initiate and take your turn, that person is going to think they can always do that to you. And that's the other thing that I... I like to say that you make an aggressive first move and it'll stop 50% of the surfers in the water.
Michael
Yes, that's true. The guy that paddles out and takes every wave, he's doing that because everyone else lets him. Right, do—yeah, and I think it's so scary because you think you're in your head, you're surfing, you're new to surfing, there's all these surfers here and you don't want to paddle past someone and sit there because you think, no, he's going to yell at me and tell me it's not my turn.
Wingnut
Right. So don't let him do it to you.
Michael
But so what if he does? Then you say, "Hey buddy, I'm sitting here. I'm not going to take your turn. This is my spot. That’s your spot." You just have that conversation with the person. They respect...
Wingnut
You. That's what people don’t do, right? Is they don’t respect that other person enough to sit, you know, and respect their position. It’s like, hey, you know—I mean, if it's just sitting on the other side of him, I wouldn't do it. I would sit just short of him. But if you definitely want to sit 20 feet past him, you paddle by him and you go, "Boy, I just had a good one. You know, I hope you get one too." Say something that acknowledges it's his turn. Right. It's the other surfer’s turn. And then, "I'm just going to go hang out here till you get your great one." You do that, and all of a sudden the lineup becomes a lot friendlier. Because when they come back out, you're like, "How was it? Did you have a good one? All right. You know, hope I get one next." You know, I mean, that's what we try to do. And you can calm the level in the lineup quickly.
Michael
More than that, I think that if you do that, you earn the respect. That reminds me—funny you mentioned Laird—because I used to surf out at Point Dume, and I used to love sitting on... I love big boards and I'd sit right on the boil at Point Dume. And that’s where Laird sits. And of course, he just paddles out, catches the wave—that’s what he does. And then one day, I'd always say hi to him and be friendly and he’d never respond to me. And then one day, it was my turn and he went, and I... I’m going. It’s my turn. I went. And we surfed. And he came out back and he said something to me. I was like, that’s right, man. It was my turn. And I stood my ground. And from that moment onwards... we chat. We're friendly. I earned his respect by standing up. Whereas if you don't do that, people like Laird will run all over you. They will. Just keep you down there, right? It’s like what—I mean, apex predators, right? I call us apex predators, right? You know what the good wave is. You can take any wave you want at any time. And we see other apex predators—we understand them. And we've got to be nice to the other surfers in the lineup to a certain extent. But like I said, if you're going to sit 50 yards down the line, it's going to be really hard for me to make sure you get your wave. You're just too far away. You might as well come up and crowd me a little bit because then you're in that circle of 10, you know, 10 or 12 that are going to get the wave. So the position and the comfort in taking your position is important.
Michael
And then you mentioned before like traveling around and surfing all these different waves. It reminds me—I remember the first time I went to Cloudbreak and I hadn't surfed anything like that before in my life and it was double overhead Cloudbreak and I'm paddling in and I look down and it's crystal clear water and it's two foot deep and all you see is coral reef and the wave's moving so fast and you just think, "My god, I'm going to die. There's no way. It's too fast, it's too heavy, it's too shallow. What am I doing here?" And then an hour later, you're like—you finally take the drop, you commit. And then... you go over, you get over this plateau. And you surf Cloudbreak and it's amazing and you get used to it. But the cool thing is, when you go home and you surf those waves that are a little slower, it's like, you're so much more comfortable. The wave feels slower. Time slows down. To me, that was a big plateau in my surfing too—was traveling to some of those spots.
Wingnut
And I think, you know, Cloudbreak is a good example, and it happened for me when I lived in Hawaii. And it's—familiarity breeds contempt. If you sit out there long enough, looking at that wave that scared the shit out of you when you hopped off the boat, it'll start to look like you might be able to do it. And you'll see somebody that—like, I'm as good as him, if not better. And he didn't die. And like, I could take off there. Like, you just watch it enough that you're like, I can do this. And so it slowly pulls you into it. And yeah, when you come home, you feel like Superman. It's like, nothing can kill me, you know? Trust me, because everything's slower than Cloudbreak when you get home.
Michael
Yeah, I remember the first time I went to Uluwatu too, and it was a 22-second swell and it was... the thing is, at Uluwatu, there's so many bad, average surfers out there just having a crack. And you realize—they're not getting hurt. Some of them would get washed in and whistled out...
Wingnut
But they still survive. So like even the worst wipeout’s not bad. I mean, Cloudbreak actually has a pretty—you know, if it’s low tide, it’s a problem. But you know... I mean, when we made the movie there, we filmed at low tide, right? Because the light was perfect. So we had complete dry reef inside of us. And this was before the jet ski era. So I—at one point I am paddling in less than a foot of water, trying to pull my arms flat underneath me so I could hold, you know, traction. And then I'd get on the tail of my board so I could get the nose up and try to do a whitewater climb and then paddle frantically trying to get out over sets. I mean, it was absolutely terrifying.
Michael
And you're on a...
Wingnut
Longboard. Yeah, there's no duck diving. I mean, O'Connell was duck diving, and he was stuffing his board into the reef. You know, he had pieces of coral in the bottom of his board. I mean, it was like at that point, they didn't even surf it at low tide. We're talking 27 years ago. I mean, Kelly had hair. This was a long time ago. I mean, I watched Kelly and Tom push each other deeper and deeper. I mean, Jeff Clark—not Jeff Clark, Jeff Booth—sat on the side. You know, he was definitely deeper than Pat and I. But like he would just talk about how amazing where they were taking off, where nobody had pushed that far up before. And Boothie was one of the, you know, early Cloudbreak guys. And he said just watching those two guys was amazing.
Michael
Imagine that. Were there any other plateaus that you can remember in your professional career?
Wingnut
Right, so after that, I think it was the time that I spent with Mark Martenson. So, Mark was—he's one of the best surfers in the 1960s out of the United States. He was part of that free and easy generation, came out of Harbour Surfboards. And because he was not a participant in the counterculture of drugs, he kind of got left out of that '70s surf history thing. But Mark was one of the best surfers through the transition era. And so Mark ended up becoming a commercial fisherman and kind of getting out of the surf industry. But he came back when Robert August talked him into coming back and making surfboards for Robert August. And he was always an idol of mine because the Trestle Special and what he rode at Harbour Surfboards and his style was always something that really appealed to me. So with Robert bringing Mark back, and we started doing these trips to Costa Rica, I got to surf with him personally. And I got to really watch and study a really powerful single fin pocket-style surfing that really appealed to me. And he was a phenomenal nose rider. So spending those two or three years after the movie with Mark, surfing on a regular basis with him down in Costa Rica, it kind of opened up my eyes to different equipment. And, you know, he just explained shit to me that I didn't understand. And so my surfing got better after that. So that was—we made the movie in '92, '94 it came out. So by 2000, I think my surfing had really reached a brand new level of where I liked everything to be.
Michael
So just surfing with other surfers.
Wingnut
With somebody, and again, you know, some people can learn by reading. I'm a very visual learner. I can see someone do it. I immediately gravitate to watch them and study them and surf with them. I think I did that early on in my career when I was—career—when I was learning how to surf in Newport. There were a bunch of really great surfers in the Blackies area. I did not know who they were at the time. I didn't realize how good they were in the overall lexicon of surfing. But so like Kenny had a really great drop knee. Don was the best nose rider I saw. All these guys had things that I wanted to know, you know, to get better at. And I would just dog them whenever they paddled out. And I would just hang out with them and watch until I figured out how they set up a turn, how they set up a nose ride, you know, where their positioning was on the board. I just studied it by watching. And so I did that when I started hanging out with Martenson.
Michael
Okay, so you're a surf nerd at heart, analyzing things.
Wingnut
I'm a historian... junkie for the equipment, who was riding what, at what wave, and how things were being done.
Michael
Yeah, Dane Reynolds talked about that too, about watching people that—and it's about watching the details too, isn't it?
Wingnut
It's the little things, right? You want to see like how, you know, are they forward on the board? Are they near the tail? You know, are they on the inside rail, outside rail? Where's their weight shift? Where's their hands? Upper body didn't move at all, but did you see what his knees did when there's all this stuff going on? I mean, there's less movement up on the board when you're riding smaller boards, but with the bigger boards, I mean, you're moving constantly. There's these shifts side to side, front to back. There's all this stuff going on. And then you're trying to keep the upper body completely quiet while it's going on, whereas opposed to smaller boards. It's a complete wind-up and release. The upper body is so important in the whipping and turning of the board. It's that whole thing where the board's this way and the upper body's already transitioned around to where the next destination is. So it's a completely different style of watching what the body does when you're looking at how somebody's riding a longboard versus a small board. Did you start—what was your first...
Wingnut
Shortboarding? I've never ridden a shortboard.
Michael
Board?
Wingnut
Well, I was going to say, unless my son has taken my longboard away from me and made me ride his. Now I know why shortboarders are angry. They're up to here in 50-degree water. I'd be angry too. laughs My first surfboard was a 9'6 Dave Sweet surfboard that used to be a cocktail tiki sign in a bar that my wrestling coach gave to me. I started surfing when I was 17 years—late.
Michael
Old. You started 17?
Wingnut
I was a body surfer. I grew up in Newport, so I body surfed, but I didn't surf until I got that board.
Michael
Yeah. And how old were you in Endless Summer 2?
Wingnut
How old am I now?
Michael
Getting your first surfboard at 17, how old were you when Endless Summer was?
Wingnut
26.
Michael
That—I mean, you got incredibly good in quite a short amount of time.
Wingnut
Trip started. 26.
Michael
Most surfers...
Wingnut
No. Started when they were five. Remember that. I'm a professional athlete. I mean, again, I think I had the advantage of understanding waves because I literally was body surfing at Big Corona Beach and in Newport Beach since I was probably 10 or 12 years old. So catching waves and understanding waves, I was ahead of...
Michael
Interesting. And that is the foundation of surfing, right?
Wingnut
You know, is it a good wave? Can I catch it? Which way is it going to go? All that stuff. And that I had.
Michael
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't get any more intimate than...
Wingnut
Body surfing. And then now you've got a surfboard—you can catch a wave with. I can catch any wave. I can get that one, and I can get that one, and I can get the third wave of the set after the first one.
Michael
Yeah, interesting. Yeah, my second child, when he was about three, he started—grabbed a bodyboard and would just go bodyboarding. And then this year—so he's six and a half this year—and I never pushed him into surfing at all. It's like, you want to ride your bodyboard? That's fine. It's cool. As long as you're having fun at the beach, that's all I care. Perfect. And then, he just started standing up on his bodyboard and doing spins and like pig-dogging his bodyboard. And then a couple of months ago, he just—I had a soft top shortboard that my 10-year-old rides—and he just grabbed it. He went out and just—his first wave on a surfboard—just... he surfed it all the way in. It's like, I love fins.
Wingnut
Right. And I think there's a better success rate if you let them come to it at their own speed. You know, like, again, my kid caught his first wave with me on a board when he was 18 months old. And we'd always bring the toys down to the beach. And then I stopped bringing the board because he didn't use the foamy that I had for him for five years. And he's like, "Where is it?" I'm like, "You want it? You bring it down to the beach." But he'd swim out when I was surfing and he'd body surf next to me, super comfortable in the ocean. It just took him a while to want to get on a board. And I think you and I have both seen enough fathers... ruin their kids by forcing them, you know, making them have a horrible wipeout. They don't even want to know about it for five years. So you got to let them come to it at their pace. And if you're really lucky, there's a neighborhood mob that wants to surf. And if they go with the mob, they'll at least, you know, overcome their fears because the same pain is happening to all of them at the same time. So it's like, it must be okay. But if I push him on a wave and he eats shit—dad. But if his friend tells him to go and eats shit, they come up laughing, right? So you can't be, you know, you can't control it too much.
Michael
No, you can't. Yeah, that was—I mean, I had, when I first had my first child, that was the advice given to me: just don't push them into it. Just they just have fun and safe experiences at the beach.
Wingnut
Yep. Twenty-four years later, my son is a state park lifeguard. And he was the lifeguard at Tavarua over Christmas. So he got into it. He's good at it now.
Michael
I mean, there's nothing more than enjoying the ocean with your family. Absolutely. Yeah, simple as that. So, are there some other big mistakes you see in that sort of intermediate adult beginner learner?
Wingnut
You know, with the intermediate, you know, and when you're dealing with an adult—like for me, I think everybody wants to go to too small of a board too early. Right? And it's almost corny, like out of the earliest, you know, Hollywood surf movies—I think it's called North Shore or whatever—right, where he makes the guy ride from the big board, you know, work his way all the way down to a shortboard. It's like until you can do the successful turn on a seven-foot board—start with a nine-foot, then a seven-foot—you’re not going to go down to a six-foot board. Because the same situation, the same positioning, the same dynamics of that turn apply—nine-foot, eight-foot, seven-foot, six-foot. You’re going to be able to do a lot more turns with the six-foot board, but they’re still going to require the same process. And until you can prove you can put the rail in the water, activate the fins, compress through the turn and accelerate out of it with a nine-foot board, you’re not going to be able to do it successfully on an eight, seven or six. And everybody gets caught up with like, "Can I duck dive this?" I'm like, what do you want to do today? You want to duck dive 40 waves or do you want to ride 40 waves? I think riding them is more fun than duck diving them.
Michael
Yep, agreed. And that's so—I wish I'd known that when I started because, I mean, I started on a toothpick shortboard. And then, gosh, it was probably about five years ago... Bud Freitas, I interviewed him, and he said to me, "Get an old log." And I was like, okay. And I just did it. And I—when I was living in Malibu—so my old log was a custom-made Wayne Rich.
Wingnut
It’s a pretty damn good log, I’ll tell you that.
Michael
Yeah, well that’s it right there. That’s a Wayne Rich right there. And I just like—I couldn’t believe—I was having so much fun. And I just exclusively rode the longboard for ages. And then when the waves started turning on, I’d jump on my shortboard and I was so shocked about how much better a shortboarder I was, having never even surfed a shortboard for months. It teaches you where the energy is on a wave. I mean, riding a waist- or knee-high wave is super complicated. Finding the energy in it, how to flow, how to make that—make 250 yards on a knee- or waist-high wave—you really, you know, dialed in what energy feels like. And all that information that transfers from the board to your feet, to your ankles, you know, all those small twitch muscles that figure out how to get speed. It's way easier on a waist- to chest- to head-high wave, you know, that's got all the energy and the power, but now your body understands it and you know how to make that sink. I mean, I think Mickey Muñoz is one of the—you know, one of my idols of how I want to live my life. And he's always said, there's no bad waves. They're just bad equipment choices. If you're not having fun, you didn’t choose the right equipment to have fun. You bring out your standard shortboard on a waist-high day, you're going to hate every minute of it. But if you grab a mid-length, grab a longboard, grab a glider, and you're just going to have a smile. I mean, grab a 10-foot foamy, you're going to giggle your way to 200 yards of fun. And more people need to be willing to do that and not focus on, "I've got my new 6'2."
Michael
Totally. When it’s knee-high and no wind, I’m giggling because I’ve got my 11-foot glider and there’s no one else out.
Wingnut
Right.
Michael
And I have to—I catch a hundred waves, and I had the time of my life. It’s the...
Wingnut
Best. I had Jed Noll make me a hot curl board—you know, a finless 11-foot. And, you know, we went up to the Surfing Heritage Foundation in San Clemente. We took templates. He talked to his dad, got an old gun blank. And I have this bitchin’ 10'10" hot curl with no fin. And we’ll get minus tide up here in Santa Cruz, where it’s two-foot negative tide, the entire top of the ocean is solid seaweed. It’s all kelp. And there will be a head-high swell running. Well, you cannot put a board with fins in the water. Well, I can, because I don’t have those damn fins. And I mean, I can go forever on this hot curl. And it’s just—I mean—and like the Alaia thing, it’s kind of the same. Except the water’s too cold here for me to be on a quarter-inch-thick piece of wood that’s five feet long. Like, 11 feet’s fine. I’ll be on top of the water. But that unlimited speed, that fun that you can get from point and shoot and climbing and dropping in the pocket—it’s just amazing. And it’s liberating, right? You’re not thinking about turning. You’re just thinking, can I find these beautiful lines that just shoot me down the line? A knee-high wave can be the greatest thing in the world.
Michael
Yeah, I mean, yeah, you’re right. Once you have the right equipment. There's so much—you can just paddle over there and surf when no one else is surfing. There’s a hundred people there and you're over there just catching whatever novelty wave is. And that’s the best. We've got...
Wingnut
Two or three spots here along Pleasure Point where the wave breaks—it’s kind of good. Then it hits a deep spot and you can’t make it through on a surfboard. And then it stands up again. Well, it’s the ultimate stand-up paddle place. And the guys that are smart enough to go surf those spots, they come out of the water exhausted, grinning, because they actually caught three waves that was always the same wave. Because it disappeared when it hit that hole, stood back up, and they were able to like stroke through it because he had an 11-foot board, rode it again for another 50 yards, hit the deep spot, paddled through, and then go again. And I’m like, my God. Those are the three smartest guys in the water right now, because they’re getting to ride a wave that nobody else can with no competition. It’s like hats off to you guys. Figuring out how to use this limited resource that’s out there. You’re like, well, it’s high tide now and it’s not even breaking, but that perfect line’s coming through. The foil board guys have that completely licked now. And I’m like, congratulations, you’re winning. You’re like, we can’t surf and you are exhausted from getting four waves. I think there’s all these ways to figure out how to have fun in this sport. So let’s not make it harder on ourselves by, "I got to ride this 5'10." I can remember driving up and down the California coast, because I live in Santa Cruz and my family’s down in Newport, pulling up, checking the surf all the way down the coast. Ten guys paddle for a wave and no one catches it. And I’m just like, watch it for like two sets and I’m like... They’re still idiots. They’re not smart enough to put the right board in the water. They’re still caught up in that, you know, littler is cooler. Yeah, sure, it fits in the car. It’s easy to carry. But it sucks dirt to paddle.
Michael
Yeah, it’s only in surfing. Can you imagine if you went down to the local tennis court and there was ten people playing tennis with no strings on their racket?
Wingnut
Even in golf, the pros play with blades. They play with these really hard-to-hit clubs. Well, you would have a miserable time if they handed those to you and you had to try to play a round of golf with those. So yeah, make it easier, not harder. Foam is your friend. You can even have a small board that has extra foam, you know, have the center be a little thicker. But everybody’s caught up in like, "I only ride 28 liters," you know, or "29 liters." If you were on a deserted island... You know, and a 6'10 showed up, would you not ride it because it’s 40 liters? You know, it’s the only surfboard. "No, it’s not my liters. I’m not going to ride it. I’m just going to sit here and watch the perfect waves till I get rescued." You know, like don’t let that dictate how you have fun and how you grow as a surfer. How can you have fun each time you go surf? And if you’re fortunate to have two or three boards to choose from, please choose wisely.
Michael
Yes, and you can never own too many surfboards.
Wingnut
We might discuss that. Spouses might discuss that even more. So going back into coaching and training—ahem—I always paddle out with the aspirational board underneath me. I want you to ride the nine-foot board. I’ll ride the eight-foot board. If the conditions are perfect, catch a bunch of waves on the eight-foot board. But if it goes to shit, get back on the nine-foot board. I have that board with me because I don’t surf when I’m working with someone. I’m not there to catch waves. I’m there to make sure you get waves. So we can trade back and forth the board that you think you want to ride. "I think I want to try a quad." I’ll have the quad. You have the thruster. Or, you know, I’ll have the twin fin, you have the single. I mean, we play that game so the student can start experimenting in the exact same conditions what those two boards will do. Another reason why it’s better to be in the water than on land.
Michael
I struggle with the "they’re not catching any waves" thing. I think—I mean, isn’t it nice to catch one wave in?
Wingnut
No, stop it. Stop it. It’s not why you’re there. Yes, there is a point where it’s good to demonstrate what you want them to do. And I grant that. But one of the things that has made what I do successful is, I’m not taking two waves out of a set when I’m working with a client. I’m giving him my wave—him or her—my wave. And usually it’s not the A+ wave out of the set. I want to let the apex predator have that. He knows that if I was in the water, I’d be getting it. But when that person comes back out and I’m giving the A or A- wave to my client, they’re going to let me do that because I’m not going to take another wave. So it allows me an ability to work in a busy lineup. And I’ll be accepted. I’m older than you. I’ve had a lot of good waves, so I can let a few go. I’m not saying it doesn’t hurt. I’m just saying that that’s part of what I want, you know, and again, like I agree with you, it’s important—like if I want them to see how the shoulder rotation should be, how that turn should be done, you know, I will wait because they have to finish their wave. They have to be paddling back out. And then I will try to catch something that I can illustrate that point on for them.
Michael
Yeah, no, that's a good point. I do like watching the surfer from closer into the shore. So sometimes I'll catch a wave and watch them and get that view. Because sometimes when you're looking from behind the wave, you don't get to see their technique. You can't see where they failed, right? I agree with you. I mean, it's a little bit easier. Like when you're watching, when you're trying to analyze what somebody is doing on a smaller board and how they're not compressing into their turn, they're not doing this. You can't see that from behind, right? I completely.
Michael
Agree. Yeah, sometimes I'll even catch a wave and just stand on the tail in the foam and just say, "Come, go, go!" and I'll watch them from back.
Wingnut
Yeah, I will do that all the time. Whereas I will, you know, catch that wave with them and so that I can talk them through like, "More shoulder, more..." I think that one swing thought, one thought per session until they master it is like, we're trying to fix one thing. Right. So I'll be paddling next to them as they're going for that wave. And I'm like, "Remember your shoulder," you know, trying to get them. That's the only thing going on in their head. And then I'll catch that wave behind them. And if they're not doing it, then I will start to verbalize toward them. "Hey dumbass, use your shoulder."
Michael
Can you think of any life lessons that you've learned directly from surfing?
Wingnut
Sure. Adaptability. I mean, the ocean changes all the time. I think that's the number one thing that we get from being surfers is our ability to quickly adjust to changing circumstances. The tide, the wind, the crowd, everything's changing on us. And we have to adapt to ride that wave as best we can. And we have to be fluid and easy with it. And overcome a mistake, you know? Like, hero to zero, right? You have a great wave, you're top of the world, the next one, you pearl on takeoff and get pitched over the falls. Shake it off! Shake it off or go in. And it's like, wow, that one was on me, wasn't it? You know, and you'd come out laughing. I mean, one of the things—always controversial—I surf without a leash 99% of the time. But usually there's nobody between you and the shore, right? There is a group where you're taking off, but if you eat shit, there's nobody between you and the beach. So the only penalty is that you have to go for a swim. And it's that swim that allows you to contemplate what your mistake was. And figure it out. Especially if the water is 50 degrees. You really want to know why you are up to your neck in 50-degree water. Because I think if you have a leash on, you eat shit. You pull your leash in, got your board, and you're paddling out and you're thinking about your next wave. Trying to get out of the way and thinking about your next wave. You spend no time considering the mistake that put you in the water. Whereas if you're swimming, you have that time to contemplate what the hell just happened. Like when one of my guests wipes out, when they come back, I make them rewind the movie. Like what happened? What happened? Why? And they have to click it back till they see the rail, the foot, the this, you know, what they did wrong. We don't spend enough time thinking about our mistakes when we're paddling back out.
Michael
True, yeah. Yeah, surfing without a leash does help you there.
Wingnut
When I moved to Santa Cruz, it was one of the only reasons I was tolerated, right? I mean, we're talking over 30 years ago, and I'm on a longboard at first peak at Pleasure Point, and I'm the only one out there that's under 50 on a longboard, and even the old guys won't surf first peak. But I was tolerated because... I would swim. If I ate shit, I was gone. And I was gone for 15 minutes looking for my surfboard. And it was like, I wasn't using a longboard as a tool to catch more waves. I was riding it because I appreciated that style and aesthetic. And I stayed true to it. So, like I said, when I lost it, it went in. Sometimes it went into the rocks, and I was gone for two days because I had to repair the board. So that allowed the crew that was here to accept me.
Michael
Yeah, that's a good... good point you make too is for the longboarders listening, ask yourself that question. Are you riding a longboard so you can catch more waves or are you riding a longboard because you like...
Wingnut
Longboarding? Right. And here's a dead giveaway, right? You ever see somebody on a nine-foot board and they haven't waxed, you know, the top three feet of the board? That guy's a jerk. He's only out there to get more waves. Fuck that guy. Don't let him do that, right? So, and obviously there are situations where there's people in the shoreline. So if your board goes in, it's going to hit it. You should wear a leash. Or it's 100% going to go into the rocks every time if you lose it, you should probably wear a leash. But if there's no penalty to the equipment or to other humans, you should really try to—when you get to a certain level where your consistency is pretty high—to ride that board without a leash so you don't get entangled. Because if you're truly trying to wander around, walk forward and back and feel that freedom of the footwork that a longboard is so fun to ride for, then do it without a leash so that you can really trust yourself and learn to trust yourself. Like if I see anybody in, you know, chest-high waves or smaller wearing a leash, and I kind of know where they are, and I know it's not really a danger situation, I give them zero credit for the waves they're riding. For the risks they're taking, because they're not taking a risk. They're not committing to that nose ride in a bitchin' waist-high Malibu wave with a leash on. There's no risk. So I'm a bit of a harsh critic on that subject, but that's the way I am.
Michael
No, I like that, and it's when you don't have a leash you have to finish your wave properly.
Wingnut
For me, surfing is absolutely like gymnastics or ice skating because the Olympics just started. There's the takeoff and there's the kickout, and there's the performance in between. That first move into a wave, whether you fade left before you go right, and how you kick out. In control of your board—absolutely vital. You're finishing that wave with a statement. Watch Skip Fry. He's 80 years old and he finishes with dry hair. I mean, that's commitment to picking your wave and knowing what you're going to do all the way to the end. And to me, that's really the ultimate statement in how good you are.
Michael
Yeah, surfing is an art form.
Wingnut
Absolutely. For me, I mean, it's the only expression that I have, right? Can't sing. There's no painting. There's nothing. All I've got is surfing. So it's really important to me. I really value the takeoff and the kickout and everything in...
Michael
Between. Yeah. And I think when you have that attitude... it's a detailed... thoughtful attitude, and that crosses over to the way you surf the wave as well, right?
Wingnut
I mean, and I think it's kind of—it's how you finish everything, right? Even in life. You know, do it with thoughtfulness, right? How is this going to end? I've started this endeavor. How is it going to finish?
Michael
Yes. Every surfer is worried about how they look in the car park. Am I holding my board right down the beach? And then they just jump off a wave and let their leash go. And it just almost spoils the whole... How's that? If I'm wearing a leash, I'm still trying not to use my leash. Hey, I don't trust leashes. I tell people that all the time. It's like, I hope you're a good swimmer because, you know, at some point the leash is going to break when you do that. And you are a long way from the shore. You know, it's like, absolutely, they're great to have. I don't trust them at all. And guys would say to me sometimes, like, "You know... you should have a leash. You know, you just ate shit." I'm like, if I had a leash wiping out next to you, I'm going to—my board's going to hit you and him. I mean, it's a 10-foot board and a 10-foot leash. It's a 20-foot swath of destruction. If I don't have a leash, it hits the water and it goes. And now it's 100 yards away. So you don't want to have a leash on a longboard and a guy that eats shit right around you. It just stays there like a karate chop trying to kill everybody.
Michael
Can spring back at you too. Absolutely. Where do you think surfing's going? It's blown up in the last couple of years with COVID and everything.
Wingnut
It's growing, and I think it's growing in a... it'll be interesting to see. And I want it to—in the best wishes that I have—that people will go from the foamies to quality surfboards, to understanding the effort that is made to build a surfboard... to build the products that we use. I mean, you know, I see people that are buying a $700 wetsuit and they've got a $99 surfboard. You know, it's kind of the other way around. Well, it's just going to last you one or two years. If you buy a good surfboard, like the Wayne Rich behind you, it's going to last you 25 years and then your kid's going to be riding it. I mean, I have boards that are older than I am. Right? So surfboards last. So I think this new generation of surfers is going to come to understand—I want them to come to understand—how much effort is put into the equipment that we ride. And the environment that we ride them in. So for me, we have a huge influx of new surfers. And if they all understand that and understand the environment and how important it is, then it's a good thing. I mean, yes, the water's crowded. But if it's crowded with, you know, another million people that are going to care about taking care of the environment, I can live with that.
Michael
That's a good message. Is there anything else that you would like to talk to that demographic about?
Wingnut
Never surf in Santa Cruz. It's dangerous. There's sharks. It's the worst place to ever go. But yeah, no. I mean, that's really the message that I think that I want, that I feel better about with the people that I bring into surfing is that they understand more about kind of the limited resource that the ocean and the near shore environment is and how important it is to take care of. And it's nice that, you know, people do. That they see that, they understand it, and they try to be a part of that.
Michael
I mean, equipment wise, I think that this is the difference between a hundred dollar Costco board and a Wayne Rich custom.
Wingnut
I mean, unfortunately though, those boards that Costco produces disintegrate so rapidly and are so environmentally toxic that, it's hard. I mean, foamies are fun. I get it. But those are like the worst of the worst. They literally disintegrate and peel apart and are the worst polluting things I've ever seen. So I think a more environmentally friendly, foamy, safe board. I mean, when I was learning how to surf, it was used boards that had been repaired 25 times, open fractures on the rails that would cut you. I mean, it was horrible, right? Hard to learn. So now we have it. You know, foamies, and there are higher quality levels of foamies, right? The Costco being literally the lowest technology in the foamy world going, and I think Catch Surf makes a really good one, and there's a whole bunch of them that are out there that are great, and they're actually virtually all made in the same factory, but the more expensive they are, that means the better materials and the longer they last. And I think that's our responsibility is to try to find things that last. Not that you can return it at Costco in three months if it breaks, but that it'll last you for three, four or five years. And that's a good lifespan. But get a Wayne Rich and it'll last you 25 to 50.
Michael
Years. Yeah, I mean, it is nice to learn on a soft top. It's a little safer and for everyone involved. But I mean, I've got a soft top, but it's an INT. I spent $500.
Wingnut
On it. Those INT guys are amazing. There's a guy, Jim Richardson in Hawaii, who has a company called Surf Light. And he builds a foamy where he builds an EPS like a snowboard inside that's the rocker and gives it the flex. And then he puts EPP, which is boogie board foam. He glues that around it. Boogie board foam does not absorb water. EPP doesn't at all. So he skins it with the EPP and then he puts another little skin on the outside. This surfboard looks like an average foamy, but you can cut it in half. It will not absorb water at all. I've had one for 15 years. It weighs the exact same as the day that I got it. And it's got claw nails from my dog in it. It's been fin cut. It will not absorb water. But the problem is, as a foamy, it costs the exact same as a brand new custom surfboard. But it's a foamy that I taught my kid on. I've got probably 20 people that have taught all their kids on it, and it's indestructible. So Surf Light, you know, there are solutions to the foamy problem. We just have to be willing to pay for them. Jim Richardson, look it up. He's in Hawaii.
Michael
Yeah. Or for listeners, I'll find the website. I'll put a link to it in the show notes for listeners. Yeah. Is there any other, anything, anywhere else you'd like to point people? And the surf.
Wingnut
Industry? No, I mean, I think there's great quality manufacturers from board shorts to wetsuits to surfboards that are out there. And it's looking in the community that you live. I like to spend my dollar local. Like you got a Wayne Rich, right? If you're in Malibu, Ventura, Santa Barbara, what a phenomenal shaper to get a surfboard from. You're in Northern California. We've got our half a dozen of great local hardcore guys that have been here forever. Nick Palandrini from Source. We've got Travis Reynolds. You know, we've got, you know, just great guys that are up here and that's what you should do. Because it looks good when you walk down to the beach with a board that was handmade in the town that you're in.
Michael
Yeah, not only that, but... Now, if you're progressing from a soft top to a hard longboard, if you went and got a Wayne Rich custom, you're never going to grow out of that board, no matter how good you get.
Wingnut
Right. And as I like to point out to people. You know, if you get a brand new 6'2", and you ride it all year long, it's going to disintegrate and be done at the end of that year. You get a brand new 9'2", and you're going to have it for decades. So literally, there are exponentially more longboards in the world than there are shortboards. Because the shortboards disintegrate and die every year. 50% of the foam made every year is over eight feet long. So half the boards every year are over eight feet long and those boards survive. Yeah, there's got to be less than 5% that die that first year and get broken or whatever. 75% of those shortboards are gone by the end of the year.
Michael
I do have, I love shortboarding and if the waves turn on, that's what I want to be on. To me, the waves hardly ever justify being on a shortboard.
Wingnut
But again, you're playing the game the way I exactly like it, where you're applying the right equipment to the wave conditions. So they're in good shape when you're ready to ride them, but it's like, it's only this, I'm going to ride that board. That's why you want to have, that's where the quiver comes from, right?
Michael
Well, my opinion is if surfing is not a sport and a career for you, there's no need for you to be on a shortboard all the time.
Wingnut
All the time. Correct. Absolutely. It's great to have them. It's great to know how to ride them. But you want to have those other tools that you can have more fun with. We're out there to have fun, right?
Michael
That's something I really like about you is whenever you see you surfing or talk about surfing or look at anything from you, there's always an element of fun around it. Otherwise...
Wingnut
Why would you be doing it? Why would I still be grinning about the next trip I'm doing in three weeks going down to Costa Rica if I didn't think it was going to be unlimited fun?
Michael
Unlimited fun. I love that. Yeah, I think it's a great place to leave it.
Wingnut
No, we like to say endless fun, but that's just a play on the movie. So yeah, cheers.
Michael
Thank you so much for your time, man. I really appreciate it.
Wingnut
Absolutely enjoyable.
Michael
Thank you so much, Wingnut. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. Give us a rating on the app you're using. And if you feel inspired to get a surf coach, do it. And remember, if you don't have a local surf coach near you, you can always go and do the 12-week Ombi course online. For a 20% discount, use one of the links in the show notes, or you can go to my website, surfmastery.com, and use one of the links there for a discount. You can donate to the show using the PayPal button at surfmastery.com. The music that you're listening to now in the background is from the Endless Summer 2 soundtrack. And my favorite song from that soundtrack I will play now.
69 Surfing Wisdom From Surf Coach Wingnut
For the passionate surfer—whether you're a weekend warrior, a surf dad, or an older surfer—this podcast is all about better surfing and deeper stoke. With expert surf coaching, surf training, and surfing tips, we’ll help you catch more waves, refine your paddling technique, and perfect your pop up on a surfboard. From surf workouts to handling wipeouts, chasing bigger waves, and mastering surf technique, we’re here to make sure you not only improve but truly enjoy surfing more—so you can get more out of every session and become a wiser surfer. Go from Beginner or intermediate Surfer to advanced.