87 Andrew Goodman - Surf Coach
Think you're too old to learn how to surf—or stuck as a frustrated intermediate? What if the key to better surfing isn't fitness or board size, but how you read the wave?
In this episode, surf coach Andrew Goodman shares his powerful coaching insights, from teaching an 86-year-old woman to surf to running retreats across the Maldives, Costa Rica, and Europe. Whether you're struggling with confidence, wave selection, or etiquette, this conversation shines a light on the real obstacles most surfers face—and how to overcome them with intention and awareness.
Hear the inspiring story that launched Andrew's surf coaching career and transformed his purpose
Learn the biggest mistakes beginners and intermediates make (and how to fix them)
Discover practical balance and wave-reading tips that immediately improve your surfing, no matter your age or skill level
Tune in now to gain the clarity and confidence you need to level up your surfing and finally catch the waves you're aiming for.
https://www.instagram.com/andleo__/?hl=en
https://www.andrewgoodmansurfcoach.com/
https://www.facebook.com/andrewgoodmansurfcoaching/
Key Points
Andrew Goodman's introduction to surfing came from growing up in a beach-centric lifestyle in Cape Town, South Africa, influenced by his father, a surfer, and his mother, a beach enthusiast.
Andrew transitioned into surf coaching after a serendipitous encounter in California in 2008, where he offered to teach surf lessons on a trial basis and eventually taught an 86-year-old woman to surf, sparking his passion for surf coaching.
Andrew discussed his background in the film industry as a grip, a role that involved rigging and building set pieces, which instilled in him a forward-thinking approach that has contributed to his surf coaching.
Andrew shared his strategy for dealing with clients who experience seasickness during boat trips, emphasizing the importance of preparation and offering practical solutions such as providing medication.
Michael highlighted the importance of vision and vestibular training for surfers, suggesting that it can improve balance, vision, and overall surfing performance, and recommended resources like Z-Health for further learning.
Andrew discussed common mistakes made by beginner and intermediate surfers, such as transitioning to smaller boards too soon and misunderstanding wave dynamics, and emphasized the importance of understanding wave behavior over mere physical fitness.
Andrew and Michael discussed the challenges of surf etiquette and the importance of teaching new surfers about ocean safety and behavior, contrasting this with the limitations of surf schools in providing comprehensive education on surf etiquette.
Andrew explained the concept of competence hierarchy in surf culture, emphasizing that respect and priority in the lineup should be based on surfing ability rather than physical fitness or seniority.
Andrew shared his experience surfing in wave pools, noting the unique challenges and the increasing accessibility and popularity of wave pools, despite their high cost per wave.
Andrew provided information on how to find out more about his surf coaching trips, including his Instagram handle and website, and mentioned an upcoming trip to Costa Rica with a returning group of 11 participants.
Outline
Andrew Goodman's Background and Surfing Journey
Andrew Goodman was born and raised in Cape Town, South Africa.
Andrew's parents were both involved with the beach lifestyle; their dad was a surfer and their mom was a beach enthusiast.
Andrew started playing with a boogie board as a child and later convinced their parents to get a seven-foot surfboard.
Andrew's passion for surfing began at a young age, around five or six years old, and they got their first board at nine.
Andrew has been passionate about the ocean and surfing throughout their life, including bodyboarding and bodysurfing.
Andrew is currently based 45 minutes north of Rome, Italy, where the surf conditions are generally flat but can be good during winter storms.
Andrew enjoys traveling for surfing and focuses on making the most of good surf conditions when they arise.
Transition to Surf Coaching
Andrew moved to California in 2008 after leaving New Jersey and decided to pursue surf coaching.
Andrew initially approached surf schools for a job and offered to teach a surf lesson for free, guaranteeing payment if they failed.
Andrew taught an 86-year-old woman to surf, which was a pivotal moment that inspired them to pursue surf coaching.
Andrew's experience in the film industry as a grip, where they learned to think ahead and prepare, has contributed to their surf coaching approach.
Surf Coaching Business and Locations
Andrew runs surf coaching trips in Central America, the Maldives, and Europe.
Andrew has run a surf school in Cape St. Francis, South Africa, and has also spent time in the Maldives.
Andrew's surf coaching trips cater to beginners to intermediates, with occasional advanced surfers joining.
Andrew has had notable surfers like Grant Twiggy Baker join their trips.
Andrew helps clients with logistics for their trips, including advising against arriving on Fridays in the Maldives due to limited transportation.
Andrew emphasizes the importance of understanding local surf etiquette and behavior to maintain a friendly environment.
Common Mistakes in Surfing
Beginners often transition to smaller boards too soon without mastering technique and muscle memory on larger boards.
Intermediate surfers may focus too much on strength and fitness rather than understanding wave dynamics and appropriate turns.
Andrew stresses the importance of reading the wave and making the right turns at the right moments to progress in surfing.
Surf Etiquette and Culture
Andrew discusses the frustrations clients express about local aggression and protectiveness in the water.
Andrew emphasizes educating surfers on behavior, safety, and etiquette to create a positive and safe surfing environment.
Andrew notes the challenge surf schools face in balancing teaching surfing skills with surf etiquette due to time constraints.
Andrew highlights the importance of understanding and respecting the lineup and wave-catching hierarchy based on competence rather than aggression or fitness.
Wave Pools and Surfing
Andrew has surfed in wave pools, including the one in Bristol, England, and found it to be a fun and different experience.
Wave pools are becoming more financially viable and accessible, though they can be expensive.
In wave pools, surfers literally pay for their waves, making each catch more significant.
Upcoming Surf Trip Details
Andrew is preparing for an upcoming surf trip to Costa Rica with a group of 11 people.
The group consists of individuals who have surfed together since 2021, ranging in age from 26 to 55.
Two members have brought their partners, increasing the group size to 11.
Contact and Information for Surf Trips
Andrew can be found on Instagram under the handle Leo_AND_LEO, a combination of Andrew and Eleonora's names.
Andrew provides trip information through Instagram, a link tree on their bio, and a Facebook platform called Learn2Surf.
The website for Andrew Goodman Surf Coaching is available for those not on social media.
Transcription
Michael Frampton
Welcome back to the show. Today's guest is Andrew Goodman. Andrew is an experienced surf coach who now runs surf coaching trips in Central America, the Maldives, and in Europe. He has a fantastic Instagram account, which is full of education and @leo_and_leos_. And we go into Andrew's backstory a bit at the start of the interview, so I will leave the intro there and fade in my conversation with Andrew Goodman.
Andrew Goodman
From South Africa, yeah. Born and raised in Cape Town.
Michael Frampton
When and why did you start surfing?
Andrew Goodman
So my dad was a surfer. And my mom was a beach bum, beach babe. Sorry, I'm the beach bum. She was the beach babe. My uncle surfed for South Africa. I pretty much just grew up in that beach kind of lifestyle from a very early age and I just fell in love with the ocean. I used to play on my boogie board, that little styrofoam thing, as a kid. And it just developed to me standing on the boogie board and then convincing my mom that I needed those pointy boards that shaped up in the front because that stopped the surface from getting splashed from the water. That was my philosophy as to why boards had rockets. And so, yeah, I eventually convinced my parents to get me a board and got myself a seven-foot board. Single firm, locally South African-shaped board from Jonathan Parman. Just fell in love, man. Just... Yeah, that was probably when I was about five, six years old. And then got the first board when I was nine.
Michael Frampton
Yep. Okay. And just, it's been a lifelong passion since then. Yeah.
Andrew Goodman
Just enjoying the ocean. I mean, yeah, surfing most of the time. I mean, I spent a few years bodyboarding and then in between, body surfing as well. But yeah, just a little bit of that. Up until now, lifelong passion with the ocean and just playing, whether it's longboarding, stand-up paddleboarding, surfing. It's just such a powerful place to spend your time in. It really is.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. And where are you based now?
Andrew Goodman
So I am sitting about 45 minutes north of Rome. In Italy. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Michael Frampton
I hope I hit. Okay. What's the surf like in... their part of the world. I can imagine it's...
Andrew Goodman
Great. It's about as flat as you can imagine the Mediterranean to be. At the moment, there's not a stitch of swell in. Around. In wintertime there's some pretty good waves along the coast where we live. It's few and far between. You know, the stars have to align. And, you know, a good proper storm has to be out there to push some swell in. So yeah, it's not as consistent but it's okay. We travel a lot and I enjoy my last surf and that's the memory I live in until the next good one, you know, have to force it.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, that's a nice way to do it, I think. Yeah, I don't.
Andrew Goodman
I don't have to get it in there because for me, it's like I'm only enjoying it as much as my last surf was, if that was really good. And so I don't want to go and fight with two-foot onshore with 60 people in the water trying to scavenge under a wave. For me, that should be family waves, party waves, shared waves, however you call them. You know, when it's like that, it should just be fun out there. You know, if it's consequential, sure, then there needs to be some sort of order and, you know, but when it's like that, I don't believe this. People need to be all... Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, well, on the modern surf culture.
Andrew Goodman
That's touching.
Michael Frampton
We'll get there soon. But obviously, I think it's so to live on the coast near a surf break nowadays is ridiculously expensive. You can live inland a little bit and spend that money on surf travel.
Andrew Goodman
Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Yep. And so when did you... Like what was the transition between sort of, you know, being a lover of surfing and then getting into surf coaching? How did that come about?
Andrew Goodman
So I left, I was living in New Jersey. I was married to an American woman. For quite some years. I just left. And I, like hundreds of thousands before me, decided to go make a life in California. So I jumped across the continent. And, thank you.
Michael Frampton
What year was that?
Andrew Goodman
That was in 2008.
Michael Frampton
Okay. Yep.
Andrew Goodman
And I needed a job, man. I needed to make some money. So I went down to the beach and I saw these flyers of two different surf schools. And I thought, okay, well, I've surfed a few times and I've taught one or two people to skate and I've taught one or two friends to surf. I thought I might be able to pull myself, put myself off as a surf coach. And I phoned up the one company and I said, hey, you guys need a surf coach? And they were like, "No, sorry, we got everyone for the season." And they put the phone down. I thought to myself, okay, let me rethink my approach because that didn't work too well. And so I phoned the next one and I said, hi, do you guys do surf lessons? And he said, yes. I said, do you have any this afternoon? And he said, no. So they said yes. I said, okay, I'm going to come and do it for you. If I fail, if I suck, I will pay whatever the person paid so you earn double. And you can take over and say that whatever excuse to your client. But if I do well, you've got to give me a job. And he was like, wow, you're either very confident or very arrogant. And I was like, well, let me do the surf lesson for you and you can tell me. And I ran his business for about six months. And in one of those lessons, I taught an 86-year-old woman to surf. And she stood up and there's a whole backstory to that. And, you know, she eventually got the wave and she stood up and she turned around and she had a look on her face, man, that I'll never forget. And it was... Like a freight train hitting me that I was part of something so much better. Bigger than just a surf lesson, than someone just standing on a board. Because her husband had died two years ago and they had been wanting to surf for like 30 years. They'd been speaking about it and they never did. And she eventually, two years after his passing, got the energy, decided, motivation, strength, to come and do it. So when she gets to heaven, she can tell her husband what it was like to go surfing. So that's the story she tells me, this 86-year-old woman that rocks up at the beach for a surf lesson. And that look she gave me, man, it was just something... I was like, wow, I want to spread that. I want to give that to as many people as I possibly can. And so that's the short and the long version of why I went into surf coaching. I didn't know that I wanted to do that at all. I was 30, whatever, $30, two years old or something, I had no idea. I'd be working in the film industry, so it wasn't something that I planned.
Michael Frampton
86. That's a good... That's rare. I imagine that's the oldest person that you've taught and... I can't imagine getting too many people over the age of 70 wanting to try surfing. No.
Andrew Goodman
No. But when I do get people in their 60s, I say to them, no, because if you're over 86, then you can say you're too old. But up until the 86, you're not allowed to say it because of this.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, and I love that. That's so cool. Yeah, I know. She was a rock star, that woman, man. Wow.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, it just goes to show that if you're motivated enough, you know, age is... You can do anything.
Andrew Goodman
She had it? She definitely... I mean, I'd be lying if I didn't shed a tear at the end of it. You know, when she gave me a hug, it was... It was, you know, you could see it was something incredibly important for her. You know, it wasn't like she was there half-hearting it. She was on... She was not leaving that beach before she got.
Michael Frampton
It. Yeah. And that's such an important lesson for all surfers listening, is just like, if you're going to surf, own it and focus on it. That's the only—because it's such a hard thing to learn—that's the only way that you get any good at it, is actually just owning it and focusing on it and wanting it as bad as the 86-year-old. And that's, I think, there's a lot of wisdom in her attitude.
Andrew Goodman
Yeah, for sure.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. So how long were you there in California? How long?
Andrew Goodman
Six months. Seven. Six, seven months. Yeah.
Michael Frampton
And what happened after that?
Andrew Goodman
Came back to South Africa. And bought a bar from a friend of mine. He had like a backpackers, really cool backpackers. He had a beautiful bar inside, and he sold it to me. And I ran it as my own business for a while, and then I went back to Cape Town, back to the film industry. And then I opened up my own surf school in 2014 in Cape St. Francis, the home of Endless Summer.
Michael Frampton
Yes.
Andrew Goodman
Endless Summer 2. Yeah. When they come over the dunes there. Yeah. So the Cape St. Francis beach was where I had my surf school for about a year and a half. And then—wow, where did I go? Then I went to the Maldives for a while after that.
Michael Frampton
Wow. Okay. That would have been special.
Andrew Goodman
Yeah, those three months in the Maldives were amazing. Wow. And right in peak season of the waves. We had between four and eight foot nearly every day for three months. It's just crazy. That place is just a machine.
Michael Frampton
Yes. So the film industry—what was your role within the film industry?
Andrew Goodman
I worked as what they call a grip.
Michael Frampton
I've always wondered what a key grip is.
Andrew Goodman
Everyone says the same thing to me, Mike. Everyone's like, "Yes, I've seen it on the credits, but what the hell is a grip?" So we grip things, man. You know, we grab things. So if you see the camera guy, the guy that operates—the DOP, which is the director of photography—if he's sitting on one of those little chairs and it's on that steel kind of car thing on rails, and you see the guy pushing that, and he's holding the camera, they're moving across. That's called a dolly. And so a grip is in charge of laying those tracks, making sure they're level, making sure they're safe for that person, that dolly to go on, the weight is distributed correctly. So when he sits and he oversets off the side, we counteract on this side. You know, we set up cranes. They operate those big giraffe cranes that you see those people doing those big aerial shots with, that long black thing with the guy sitting at the end of it. You know, that's all grip. When we build stages, we build crossings for rivers, or the shot has to be in the river. They do all the physical kind of rigging and building of platforms or making safe for the DOP.
Michael Frampton
Okay. Yeah. So that would have taught...
Andrew Goodman
You. So physical. A lot of physical work, you know. Nonstop. It's building, taking down, rebuilding every time this camera changes location.
Michael Frampton
There's a lot of forward thinking involved in that job as well. And how's that helped you on your surf journey, those lessons?
Andrew Goodman
You have to think three sets ahead. Definitely. Preparing for surf trips, thinking about what I'm going to go through, what season it is, what the waves are going to be like, what my energy levels are like, what my diet's been like. So I start thinking about that like two, three months before the trip. Start training. So definitely preparing. Yeah, I mean, I would have to say that kind of... because that was, you know, 13 years ago. Of film industry. So that's like set in stone, right? And that's part of your DNA after so long. And so, yeah, I think. I think that's definitely contributed in that way.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, because you're running surf trips now.
Andrew Goodman
Yeah. So we have three or four trips a year. And it's... I've got to be in tip-top shape when I'm out there. We get people from total beginners to intermediates, not really super advanced. But we've had a couple of pretty good surfers on our trips. I mean, I can't leave him out—we have been lucky enough to have Grant "Twiggy" Baker, the three-time world champion big wave surfer. He's joined us in the Maldives. He actually joined us in October. That was pretty cool. And yeah, so I mean, he's an advanced surfer, but he's an extraordinary human. No, he was just there to hang out.
Michael Frampton
Wow. Was he there to help you?
Andrew Goodman
He brought his wife and his seven-year-old daughter, and they were surfing and they had my learner surfboard that I bring for some people just to help out. And he would stand her up and then he would stand up and the two of them would surf the waves. It was awesome. It was cool.
Michael Frampton
Very cool.
Andrew Goodman
Yeah. But yeah, so we run a few trips. We're off to Costa Rica next month. Yeah, for a week. We just came back from Spain two weeks ago. Two and a half weeks ago. So we keep ourselves busy with a few trips a—
Michael Frampton
Year. Yeah. Do you help people that have booked on these trips? Do you help them a lot with the planning towards arriving to the trip with all the things that they—
Andrew Goodman
Need? We help them with as much logistics as they want.
Michael Frampton
Because that's a key part of surfing.
Andrew Goodman
Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, because a lot of people—I mean, we have people coming from Oregon in the States and they're flying to Maldives, and they have no idea. They've only heard fantasy stories about this place called the Maldives. They have no idea. You know, one of the key things is, don't arrive on a Friday. If you're going to go and stay at a local island and you're going there, do not arrive on a Friday because it's the holy day. And there's hardly any taxis or ferries or anything to go. So, you know, knowing little things like that help out. And us obviously planning, you know, what dates we have our trips. So yeah, it's important. We help out as much as we possibly can.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, so the Maldives. I haven't actually been to the Maldives yet. The stories I hear is that it's just overcrowded.
Andrew Goodman
No.
Michael Frampton
No?
Andrew Goodman
If you... So if you—it's like any major city. If you go to the CBD, it's going to be the most densely populated. And as you, you know, spread out, it's going to get less. And so if you go to the congregated areas around Malé, which is the main airport, sure, most of those famous breaks like Sultans—you know, Sultans is one of the most famous, that's where they have the championship trophy with all the ex-champions. And so if you're in that very close proximity of Malé, then yes, those... and yes, some of the best breaks are there. But the further south or the further north you go, there are some incredible slabs and some beautiful long, 150-meter-long point breaks. Just dreamy conditions and hardly anyone out. I mean, we were there in October, which is just kind of off the end of season. We had places to ourselves for two, three days.
Michael Frampton
Wow. Are you on a bug?
Andrew Goodman
No. And we were on a boat, yeah. So we just stayed in that one spot because there was no one else, yeah.
Michael Frampton
There. You stay on the boat. How do you deal with seasickness?
Andrew Goodman
I'm fortunate enough that I somehow outgrew it. I used to terribly get it really badly as a kid and as an adult, and then for some weird reason, I just don't get it anymore. But it's quite stable. It's not a sailboat. It's like a big... like it's not a super yacht, but it's a big motor yacht. Like 11 cabins, double rooms, ensuite bathrooms, air con, like chef and that whole story. It's not like a small boat. So you don't really feel the rock. It's so wide that you don't really feel it. Yes, if there's a bit of swell or if there's a bit of wind or something like that, yes, you might feel a little bit, but generally no. It's all good. It's a pretty solid boat we have, yeah. For the first three days, yeah, she was.
Michael Frampton
What about clients? Have you ever had a client show up to a boat trip and just be seasick the whole time? Has that ever happened?
Andrew Goodman
We had a lady from Australia. She did so well, man. She kept such a positive attitude, you know, take my hat off. But she was, and then I think she got like the flu on the fourth day. And so she was sniffles and vomiting and stuff altogether, man. But she just kept such a... she came out as much as she possibly could and, you know, did her best. But yeah, she was lady down.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. So she just sort of acclimatized to the seas and she...
Andrew Goodman
Just, yeah. We got some pills for her from the pharmacy. She thought she was going to be okay. And she wasn't. So before we left, we were like, right, how's everyone doing? And we're like, who didn't bring pills that thinks they might or not? And we're like, cool. But shoot to the pharmacy before we left. And yeah, we just gave her those.
Michael Frampton
Okay. Yeah, I used to get seasick. I used to get seasick in a bath almost, so bad.
Andrew Goodman
I was terrible as...
Michael Frampton
Well. Yeah. But then I did a lot of training with my vestibular system and my ocular system. So training your balance and your eyes. Nice. And that just changed everything. The game for me. I would now been on boat trips out to Cloudbreak and stuff and didn't get seasick. And it actually helped. So I remember when I was living in New York and I went through Ripley's Believe It or Not. I don't know if you ever went there when you were there. And as you come out of there, you have to cross this bridge and there's a big cylinder that you walk through, like a pipe. And on the pipe, there's a bunch of LED lights and it's spinning. And so you actually have to walk through across a bridge around this spinning tube with lights on it. And I couldn't walk across it. I got halfway across and thought I was... I don't—I had to, and then I was seasick for three days after being in that tube for about, I don't know, 10 seconds.
Andrew Goodman
Know where to throw you off.
Michael Frampton
Wow. And... and that highlighted something to me. I was like—because I could never get barreled. Every time I'd get into a barrel, I'd always fall. And so when you're in a barrel, you've got that moving over you, which disorientates your ocular and vestibular system.
Andrew Goodman
You've got that cylindrical—
Michael Frampton
So then I did a lot of—that was my background, you know, personal training. And then that sort of led me into studying neurology, and I started working on my vision and my balance. And I managed to get those two systems in alignment. And then my seasickness is gone. I don't get that anymore. That's incredible. And I can get barreled. That was all of this.
Andrew Goodman
Best prize.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. So those listening out there, if you get seasick or you struggle with barrels, even though you've been surfing a long time, that could be something to look at—is vision and vestibular training.
Andrew Goodman
Absolutely. I'm going to look into that.
Michael Frampton
Yes, if you go, you can—there's a lot of free information through Z-Health.
Andrew Goodman
Z-Health.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, Z-Health. They teach basic neurology principles to personal trainers, and they put a lot of free information out there. But that's what I do as well. So if there's anyone listening that wants to dive a little bit deeper, you can jump online and do a session with me. But yeah, Z-Health would be the free resource where you can go and start to learn. I used to live in a place—I won't name it—on the Northern Beaches of Australia, in Sydney there.
Andrew Goodman
Little bit. Yeah, I want to definitely look at that. That sounds very interesting. Where's the best place you've been barreled? There's a little slab there, right-hand barrel, that I fell in love with. And surfed it every day for about a year and a half, and that was... yeah, that taught me how to tube ride. Riding that slab.
Andrew Goodman
Nice.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. And then, but the cool thing is that, you know, the better your balance becomes, and the better your vision gets, the better everything gets. Sure. Like, you can train someone in their vision and their balance, and don't do any sprinting. Yeah. And then measure them before and after doing six weeks of vision and balance training, and they sprint faster. Like it's pretty powerful stuff.
Andrew Goodman
And if you get the balance to be a subconscious focus, and whatever else you're doing as the conscious... like for instance, we did a post-session a couple of weeks ago—well, my timeframe might've even been a couple of months ago—on throwing a tennis ball against the wall while you're standing on your balance board, right? And then I was like, okay. So I started juggling against the ball, against the wall with three tennis balls. And I was saying, and we said, you know, when you can get to the point of when balance is not your focus point, but your hand-eye coordination is where your focus point is, and the balance is just a secondary automatic action that your body is doing, that's when you can start focusing on down-the-line vision. When you're not thinking about your pop-up, where your feet land. Have I paddled enough to get up on the board at the right time? And you don't have to think about that. You can more focus about what the wave is doing, reading the wave, and surfing the wave the best you can possibly do it at what that wave gives you. So absolutely, man, working on balance—you hit the nail on the head there. And then obviously, if you can get your vision, balance, man, you're taking things to the next level.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, balance is something that's drastically overlooked. Athletes are doing a lot of vision and balance training. The reason that we don't see it on Instagram and stuff is because it's not sexy. No one wants... so we see the deadlifts and the agility training, but you don't see the hours of vision and vestibular training that go in behind that.
Andrew Goodman
To. You took the words out of my mouth. Yeah. It's exactly what I said, because this stuff is just not sexy. It doesn't sell.
Michael Frampton
And another thing for surfers is it's one thing—most training, vestibular and balance training programs will take you through—and it's all about having a flat foot. But, which is, you know, a lot of the time in surfing, you are quite centered on your foot. But a lot of the time in surfing, you're on the ball of your foot.
Andrew Goodman
Or you're changing a.
Michael Frampton
Lot on your heels. So those that want to integrate some balance training in, this is one of the hardest things to do. If you just try and stand on your heels.
Andrew Goodman
On the heels of your feet. And just balance. It's not easy at all. Not easy.
Michael Frampton
But if you, once you switch that sort of mechanism on, then your backhand bottom turn is going to become so much easier.
Andrew Goodman
I'm stealing that from you. Just disclaimer right now. I'm stealing that for my personal use and what I'm going to suggest to one or two of my clients. That's amazing. I mean, I do a lot of balance board. I do balance board multiple times a week. Yeah. Just to keep, just to, you know, because I don't surf as much as... obviously I'd like to surf every day if I had a sweet little point break in front of my house that no one knew of, sure, love that. But that's not the reality. And so, yeah, I do want to keep myself fresh. And then obviously when training starts before a trip, then the balance board comes out on a daily basis for a few hours, you know. Yeah. That's a big part of my—
Michael Frampton
Training. Yeah. And balance is—a lot of people think that... so when you start getting into balance, you'll find your foot twitches a lot. And that's normal. Like even people that are really good at balance, their foot would move around and twitch a lot. And that's normal. The goal when you're training your balance is to keep your head and shoulders still. Not your feet. Because then you watch... yeah, exactly. And when you watch a good surfer surf, their heads stay quite level and balanced.
Andrew Goodman
Like a hummingbird. Don't move much. Like a hummingbird with its wings and just their heads like...
Michael Frampton
Yep. Especially someone like Kelly Slater. His legs and arms are all over the place, but his head's just kind of cruising along.
Andrew Goodman
Even when he paddles, even if you watch him compared to other surfers, his head does not move when he paddles. Yeah. Like at all. It's just arms and shoulders. Yeah. It's incredible.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, balance is a key aspect and an underutilized aspect of surfing.
Andrew Goodman
Yeah. But okay.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, okay. So Maldives trips—where else are some destinations that you take people? You mentioned Costa Rica and Spain.
Andrew Goodman
To Costa Rica. Now we stay in Tamarindo. And in Spain, we've been going two years now in a row to Cádiz, which is like really south Spain. Pretty close to Morocco. Just a little bit, but pretty south and great location. Perfect little waves for beginners and beautiful hotel there. Great facilities, ice bath that I take advantage of every day. So on in luck. I just—great—got an indoor pool. Sometimes I take the guests in the surfboard and especially beginners, because that's a beginner retreat for us, the Spain one. Take them into the pool and let them do some standing-up drills practicing in the water. So the board moves. Yeah, so Spain's quite a cool retreat to do. And we've done Portugal a few times as well in Peniche. Always a great spot, you can guarantee you. So if they're... yeah, that's just a swell magnet of—
Michael Frampton
Yeah, it's a cool part of the world. I've been there a few—
Andrew Goodman
Times. Sure, unbelievable. I think we want to try and look at a different part of Portugal now to do another retreat there. We've done Peniche twice. We want to go and find some other place, you know, because we enjoy traveling, right? We don't want to go to the same place. We want to keep it interesting for ourselves as well. And so we don't want our guests to arrive and they can see that we've been here. We're just in the routine, you know. I want them to see us excited to be where we are as well.
Michael Frampton
So retreat, yeah.
Andrew Goodman
Yeah, so we're looking for a new spot. Yeah. For the beginner.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. What's some of the biggest mistakes that you make—you see with beginners?
Andrew Goodman
That's a phenomenal question. Transitioning from a bigger board to a smaller board too soon. Hands down number one mistake people make. Because they think that's sexy—to use your phrase. And that's it. They think the shortboard—they think that's what they need to do. And unfortunately, they don't. If you haven't figured out the technique and trained the muscle memory on a big board, and going to a shortboard too quickly, your progression is just going to take a serious dive. You really need to be able to control a bigger board and understand how to trim, where to find speed on a wave, how to maintain speed before you transition to a small board. And if you do take that extra time to do that, your progression, then once you do start progressing to smaller boards or the kind of surfing you want to do, it flies up. But hands down, that's probably for me the biggest thing I see. One of the biggest mistakes learner surfers make.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, you end up coming full circle. Like I'm—I got a lot of, you know, throughout the show, you get a lot of tips from really good surfers just saying, yeah, get back in touch with bigger boards. Yeah. So it comes full circle.
Andrew Goodman
It's a common thing.
Michael Frampton
It helps you so much. Yeah. When you get a bit older, you're like, I want to try longboarding now. The waves are small and longboarding helps me surf my shortboard when the waves are good. I'm going to do more longboarding.
Andrew Goodman
Because you have to draw your turns so much more. You have to generate so much more power and distribute it from, you know, as you turn, you have to shift that energy down through your body, into your legs, into your feet, into the board. When you've got a bigger board, you need to really create that momentum. So when you take that movement into a shortboard, all of a sudden you're throwing freaking 12 o'clock turns. Whoa, where did that come from? And so absolutely, it benefits your shortboarding when you've done it for a little bit. It kills your paddling. That's the only bad thing about it because you're used to just one paddle in like five meters. One paddle, five meters. You get back into a shortboard and you just sink.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Yeah, that's half the reason I end up taking big boards out all the time is because you can just paddle around.
Andrew Goodman
Getting lazy, mate. Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Exactly. I know. Sniff. Especially in crowded lineups. It's so easy.
Andrew Goodman
I have to admit, I do the same thing. I'll take my eight-foot mini mal. There's a lot of people, I'm like—
Michael Frampton
Yeah. So what are some common mistakes you see with the intermediates?
Andrew Goodman
They think that they need to increase their strength and fitness more. Because yes, you do if you want to become an advancer from intermediate, of course you have to train 100 percent. But they think that's more of the focus than understanding the wave. So you can try and do a fast snappy turn on a very kind of flat part of the wave, and you're just going to lose all your speed and fall backwards, right? Or fall, you know, whether it's backhand, forehand. If you try and do a long, drawn-out freaking Conner Coffin-style turn, Jordy Smith—that long, drawn-out turn—on a very fast, steep, about-to-break part of the wave, you're going to get your... you're going to get a slap in your face from the lip. Right? So if you keep practicing the wrong turns at the wrong part of the wave, you're never going to get it right. So understanding what the wave is doing and to know what you need to do at that point. That's why the pros make it look so good. That's why they transition through turns so well, because they're doing the right turn at what that wave is offering them at that moment. And so intermediates are not getting that. They're trying to just rip the crap out of the wave without thinking about where they're doing what. And when I explain that to people, they go, yeah, that makes sense. And so it's not just about throwing caution to the wind and just trying to rip the head out of it. It's, think about what that wave is doing and the shape of it, and what turn would you be able to generate speed out of if you did the right turn at that point. You know? So yeah, so that's another big mistake that I would say is—the intermediates are—they come into contact with that kind of challenge and not understanding where the focus needs... They just think the focus needs to be on strength and exercise. Strength and fitness, you know. Yeah. Again, yes, absolutely. If you want to progress, you have to get fitter. And, you know, we just had a question now. "Hey, what do I need to do if I want to transition from regular surfing to big wave surfing?" I just put, "Yep, you're going to need to do training." And then training, and then in brackets, "a lot more training." And of course it needs to... but you need to—just regular surfing from intermediate to advanced—you need to read the wave. You need to know what it's doing.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. It's the fundamental thing. I mean, I always—I think that stems from people thinking that surfing is a sport and a sport only. And if, for example, if you were to take that sort of attitude into dancing—yes, to be an amazing dancer, you need to be well-trained and be athletic and physically fit. But if you're not tuning into the rhythm of the music, no one's going to want to watch you dance, no matter how athletic you are.
Andrew Goodman
Yeah. Exactly. You can have a Cristiano Ronaldo body, but with no rhythm. Your hips are going opposite to the beat. Doesn't matter, man.
Michael Frampton
Exactly. So the fundamental skill in dancing is, you know, listening to the music and—yeah.
Andrew Goodman
Following the rune.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. That is a—
Andrew Goodman
Different. That's the thing. You know, you get—this touches back to, you know, well, we actually—we touched on it. We said we'll touch on it later. But it comes very much in line with when people have aggression in the water. They're not pro surfers, their sponsors aren't taking pictures of them on the beach. You know, they're in a local place with 30 other people in the water. So why do you have to act like that? You know, so where are the cameras? Where are your sponsors? Okay. Yeah, you just like me and you, right? We just the same. Okay, just checking.
Michael Frampton
Touché. Touché. The surf culture is... strange in that way.
Andrew Goodman
Very diplomatic, yes. It is strange.
Michael Frampton
It is. Yeah. Is it—is that one of the frustrations that clients will verbalize to you on trips and on sessions? I think everyone—yeah, I mean, I hear it from all the clients. I think it's everyone. I think anyone that's learning or that's been surfing for a little bit has experienced it once or twice in their surfing career, right? Someone yelling or being locally aggressive or locally protective of the wave or whatever it may be. I think anyone that's been surfing for a little bit is going to experience it. And yes, our clients have expressed their concerns. And that's why we focus on—you know, it's not just about putting new surfers in the water because the sport is great. You know, the activity, the love of the ocean—it's not just that. We want to put people in the water that is educated on how to behave, how to look after themselves, keep themselves safe, and not endanger other people as well. It's not just, "Cool. We just taught another 150 people last year. Wonderful." No. We're putting 150 people—and it's nowhere near 150—but take a surf school, for instance, that does eight people per lesson and four or five lessons in a day. They pump out a few thousand in a season. But what we try and do, whoever comes through our doors, we try to make sure that they have a much better understanding of surf behavior, surf etiquette—whatever you want to call it—than before they walked in. And so we can rest easy knowing that people are going out there understanding what their responsibility is to keep the environment friendly. And hopefully be able to deal with someone that's in the water that's a little bit un—
Michael Frampton
Yeah, no, that's good. That's important, because it is a limited resource in a lot of places, and you got to, you know...
Andrew Goodman
But you know, in defense of surf schools—again, I made my career at different surf schools, and a lot of my experience comes from spending years at different surf schools—unfortunately, you don't necessarily have the time to dive too deep into the surf etiquette part because your job is to get them standing on a surfboard. You know, and you can't really teach them about ocean knowledge and surf etiquette and all these things because it's like, I've got eight people in my lesson and I need to get all of them to stand because that's what they come here for. And so you don't—it's a tough one because surf schools are great. And I think anyone that wants to learn should do it with a coach, whether it's private, whether it's in a school. But unfortunately, that's the negative. They don't have the time to go into that.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, they usually give a tourist experience, not a lesson. Yeah. Like on that surfing journey—especially I think between the beginner and the intermediate—what is people's biggest pain points and frustrations?
Andrew Goodman
Definitely from beginner to intermediate, I would say struggling to read the wave on where to position themselves to catch it. I think that's probably the question—I've since day one of me being a surf coach till to yesterday—is how do I know which is the right wave to catch? How do I know where to position myself at the peak? How do I know how fast do I need to paddle? How do I know how far I should be away from the wave when I start paddling? How do I know when I'm supposed to get up? How do I catch a damn unbroken wave? I think is the biggest struggle from that transitioning from catching whitewater to kind of slowly becoming intermediate, you know. I don't really use the word "intermediate." I like to use "independent." Because once you're independent, that would be classified as intermediate. You're an independent surfer. You can go out, you can keep yourself safe, you don't endanger others, you can catch the waves you want, and you can get up and you can ride and enjoy. You're an independent surfer as an intermediate. So for me, that's kind of one and the same. And so, yeah, that's one challenge. The other one is understanding the lineup—who's to go first—understanding the rule, because the rules are never followed to the T. So there's so much gray area. So they are so confused, because they're like, "But I waited and I waited, but then everyone just kept on paddling past me." I'm like, "Yeah, you should do the same thing, but don't do the same thing." You know, so that's a tough one—understanding the lineup and understanding where their position is as the beginner transitioning, catching the waves. Now we have to position ourselves amongst all these people that have been surfing here and blah. They struggle. That's a big one for them.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. Yeah, that is—it's... that's a never-ending learning curve.
Andrew Goodman
It will—yeah. It's always going to be a—especially...
Michael Frampton
When you travel. When you travel, you drop in on the wrong person and your surfing days at that spot—ruined. So it's a lot of politics and etiquette and it's... but I think that a lot of people get frustrated. I think the best way to look at it is it's not a power dominance hierarchy. It's usually a competence hierarchy. Okay.
Andrew Goodman
Yeah. And I think that's... if it should start anywhere, it should be starting there. It's got nothing to do with how fit you are, or how long you've been surfing a location, if you've got the best board, or whatever it is, you know, or the... it should definitely be on competence. Yeah, I agree 100%.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, because you take that wave, for example—you asked me where I did a lot of my barrel riding—that wave I surfed every day for a year and a half. You know, it took me months of just sitting there and waiting and taking the smaller waves and getting smashed on the inside and just being nice to the locals, and months before I even paddled for a set wave. Yeah. And if I fell off on that set wave, I'm not getting another one. It's... that's a waste of a wave. Why should I be allowed? No. Go back on the inside and practice. And as new surfers, you have to understand that that's just the way it is. And you're not going to get away from that.
Andrew Goodman
That is the sport. That is it. Because it is a patience game. You do sit out there and it's not about... it's not necessarily—there doesn't necessarily need to be the need for aggression from the surfer that sees you wasting a wave. And people say, "What do you mean I wasted a wave? It was my wave. I can do what I want on it." No. Because it's... it's about positioning. It's about understanding, watching, feeling the ocean, seeing where that wave is coming to, positioning yourself properly. Timing. It's a game. It's a very fine game that we play with the ocean to really position ourselves for that perfect spot, for that perfect wave. And so if you do take it and you weren't ready for it—we could have had that, we've been waiting for that wave, you know. So yeah, I agree that—you know, make sure you've got that competence. You know, make sure you're going to get—and yes, if you do it once, cool. Okay, it's not going to be the end of the world. But if you go out there and that's your constant, that's your—that's a thing, then you're definitely not ready. For sure. It's an understanding, it's an acceptance they have to face.
Michael Frampton
It sure is. It's a funny world, surfing.
Andrew Goodman
It is. It's supposed to be this beautiful, you know, spiritual thing, but there's definitely some gray area out there.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, it is. But you have to conform to the politics and the etiquette of that culture. Otherwise, it is.
Andrew Goodman
You—yeah, exactly.
Michael Frampton
Can't find it. Yeah, or just travel and find waves to yourself.
Andrew Goodman
What you call the pool. Yeah. Wow. Have I—have...
Michael Frampton
You surfed any pools? I've surfed the one in England, The Wave in Bristol. Twice. Three times. Yeah, it's the only one I've done, but super fun. So I actually surfed it with Twiggy. We went there. So we first met him for a retreat. He came and he helped us help people understand about fear and all that. And then we—on the way there, we picked him up from the airport and straight there, we had a day before. So we’re like, hey, let’s stop off and have a quick surf. So we surfed, and then after the retreat, we went back and surfed it again. Yeah, it’s a lot of fun, man. It’s a very... very different thing because you’ve got a cement wall right next to you. And then there’s this kind of swell that builds up and then sucks all the way down, and you kind of get pulled right next to the wall and then the swell comes up behind you, and you’ve got to paddle, and you’ve got about a two-meter space to get it right or not. And then, yeah, but once you’re up and riding, it’s fun, man.
Michael Frampton
There are so many wave pools being built at the moment.
Andrew Goodman
Oof, a lot. A little bit more financially viable.
Michael Frampton
Lot. It’s going to be so much fun soon when it’s all accessible and... ugh. Yeah. Yes, that too.
Andrew Goodman
So expensive, man. Wow, some of them are. Yeah, each wave is—you start counting the dollars of what each wave costs you if you fall or if you cut it short or whatever it is, you know, it starts adding up. Absolutely. And if you're super fit, you can catch two waves in a set, depending on how many people are in your group.
Michael Frampton
I guess in that situation, it truly is your wave because you literally paid for it.
Andrew Goodman
So I surfed in January at some stage, and it was five degrees or something in the water. So I only had two people in my group. So we were able to paddle around twice, because I think there are 15 waves in a set. So if you catch one of the first five or six waves, you might be able to get around and catch another one. But I didn’t get all of them. I wasn’t as fit as I would have liked to have been. I think I was catching every second one that I should have. I was doing, which is okay. It wasn’t too bad.
Michael Frampton
Cool. So you’re off to Costa Rica soon. That’ll be fun. What size group are you taking?
Andrew Goodman
We got 11 people. It’s a group that—we met them in June 2021. A bunch of strangers ranging from 26 years old to 55. And there were nine of them—nine or 10 of them—and they all got along so well that they asked us if we could keep that group private. And then they would just, each year, they would just book all nine of them and keep it. If we were okay with that—I said, how can we say no? I mean, the dynamic was so amazing. And so this is their third time with us. And so—but two of them have brought their partners. That’s why we’ve got 11 now. So yeah, super cool. Yeah, amazing.
Michael Frampton
And how do people find out more about these trips?
Andrew Goodman
We’re on Instagram @andleo, A-N-D-L-E-O. It’s a combination of my name and Eleonora—Andrew and Eleonora. And I think it’s @andleo_, underscore. And that’s our Instagram. And we do all our information—we’ve got like a Linktree on our bio. And it gives you access to the website. We’re on Facebook. We’ve got a platform called Learn2Surf on Facebook.
Michael Frampton
Awesome. All right. And what’s the website for those who aren’t on Facebook or Instagram?
Andrew Goodman
The website is andrewgoodmansurfcoaching.com.
Michael Frampton
Right. I will put links to all of that stuff in the show notes to this episode anyway, for those that are listening. And your Instagram is great. There are so many short little videos of just tidbits and like, so well done. Thank you. Great. Congratulations. It’s a great Instagram page. I urge listeners to give that a follow regardless. Yep.
Andrew Goodman
Thank you so much. Very kind of you. It’s absolutely a pleasure. Thank you for having me. I’ve enjoyed it. Awesome.
Michael Frampton
And thank you so much for doing the show, man. I really appreciate it. All right. Thanks, Andrew.
87 Andrew Goodman - Surf Coach
For the passionate surfer—whether you're a weekend warrior, a surf dad, or an older surfer—this podcast is all about better surfing and deeper stoke. With expert surf coaching, surf training, and surfing tips, we’ll help you catch more waves, refine your paddling technique, and perfect your pop up on a surfboard. From surf workouts to handling wipeouts, chasing bigger waves, and mastering surf technique, we’re here to make sure you not only improve but truly enjoy surfing more—so you can get more out of every session and become a wiser surfer. Go from Beginner or intermediate Surfer to advanced.