86 Devon Howard - Twin Fins
Is a twin fin actually faster than a two plus one? Are you surfing your mid-length all wrong without realizing it? Devon Howard is back to unpack it all.
Whether you're obsessing over mid-length setups or wondering if you should finally try a twin, this episode dives into the nuance of surfboard design with someone who's actually building and testing them—Devon Howard. From fins and tail shapes to flow and feel, you'll get deep insights into how different setups influence your speed, control, and style.
Learn the real differences between a single fin, twin fin, and two plus one setup—and how each affects your ride
Discover what board Devon chooses based on mood, wave type, and turning style
Understand how rail surfing vs. tail surfing changes everything on a mid-length board
Press play now to rethink your surfboard setup and tap into the style, speed, and flow that only a well-matched mid-length can deliver.
To see the board and view the video of it being surfed: https://cisurfboards.com/products/ci-mid-twin
Devon's Intagram: https://www.instagram.com/devon_howard/?hl=en
Previous episodes with Devon: https://surfmastery.com/podcast/041-noseriding & https://surfmastery.com/podcast/70devonhoward
Key Points
Devon Howard discusses how fatherhood has changed his relationship with surfing, noting that he surfs less but finds the sessions more meaningful.
Devon Howard explains his relationship with twin fins, detailing his history with different fin setups and how he transitioned to twin fins.
Devon Howard describes the differences between twin fins and two plus one setups, highlighting the acceleration and speed benefits of twin fins.
Devon Howard explains the design and features of the mid-length twin fin surfboard, including the bottom contours and the choice of a rounded tail.
Devon Howard compares the surfing experience on single fins, two plus one, and twin fins, discussing the freedom and performance aspects of each setup.
Devon Howard discusses the performance of twin fins on backhand (left-hand) waves, noting that while they work, they are easier on frontside waves.
Devon Howard mentions the potential for El Nino conditions in the upcoming winter, which could bring good surf to the West Coast of California.
Devon Howard discusses the variety of fin setups available, including twin fins, two plus one, and quad setups, and encourages experimentation to find the best fit.
Outline
Impact of Fatherhood on Surfing
Devon Howard discusses how becoming a father has changed their relationship with surfing, noting that they surf less but find the sessions more meaningful.
Howard mentions that their wife, who is also a surfer, supports their surfing and encourages them to go when conditions are good.
Howard reflects on the benefits of becoming a parent later in life, including a higher level of maturity and availability to be a better parent.
Evolution of Surfing Preferences
Devon Howard shares their history with different fin setups, starting with two plus one setups in the 80s and 90s, and later embracing twin fins.
Howard discusses their experience with various fin templates and setups, including thrusters, two plus ones, and twin fins.
They mention specific boards and fin setups they have experimented with, such as the AMK keel fin and the BMT hybrid fin.
Mid-Length Twin Fin Surfboard Design
Devon Howard describes the design of the mid-length twin fin surfboard co-designed with Channel Islands, including the bottom contours and fin setup.
Howard explains the choice of a rounded tail over a swallowtail and the reasoning behind the board's bottom design, which features a spiral V and double barrel concave.
They discuss the board's performance characteristics, such as acceleration and speed, and how it compares to other fin setups like two plus ones and single fins.
Surfing Techniques and Style
Devon Howard compares rail surfing on mid-length boards to tail surfing on shortboards, emphasizing the finesse and knowledge required for mid-length boards.
Howard likens the technique of riding mid-length boards to telemark skiing, highlighting the continuous movement and engagement required.
They provide tips on technique, such as aiming for a nine o'clock position on the wave face and the importance of understanding the relationship between fin setup and rhythm.
Comparison of Fin Setups
Devon Howard discusses the differences between single fins, two plus ones, and twin fins in terms of freedom, control, speed, and confidence.
Howard explains the benefits of single fins, such as the freedom on the wave face and exceptional nose riding, but also notes the lack of drive and speed in critical moments.
They contrast this with the control, speed, and confidence provided by twin fins and two plus ones, which offer more lift and a sensation of accelerating through turns.
Backhand Surfing on Twin Fins
Devon Howard addresses the question of whether twin fins work well on backhand (left-hand) waves, noting that it is possible but may require more practice and a different approach.
Howard mentions Michael February's performance on backhand waves as an example of the potential of twin fins in this context.
They suggest that mid-length twin fins may offer more forgiveness and rail on backhand waves compared to short rail twin fins.
Surfing Culture and Dogma
Devon Howard and Michael discuss the apparent contradictions in surfing culture, where despite the sport's emphasis on freedom, there are many unwritten rules and dogmas.
They touch on the concept of principles and etiquette in surfing, suggesting that creativity in the sport requires a certain amount of boundaries to avoid anarchy.
Transcription
Michael Frampton
Welcome back to the show. In today's episode... returning guest Devon Howard and I discuss twin fins. In particular, the Mid Twin, which is a mid-length twin fin surfboard that was recently released from Channel Islands. And Channel Islands and Devon Howard co-designed this board. We get right into the weeds on this board, the design of the board itself, fins, the types of waves it's best suited to, the style of surfing, you can expect to get the most out of this surfboard. We compare it to other types of mid-lengths. We've got tips on techniques, a little bit of surfing philosophy mixed in there, plus more. Please enjoy my conversation with Devon Howard. Since last time we spoke, you have become a dad, and how has fatherhood changed your relationship with surfing and the ocean?
Devon Howard
You know, I guess I'm fortunate that my wife is a surfer as well, so I have a very understanding partner. I surf a lot less. But I don't have... you know, FOMO. I don't—I'm not the fear of missing out. Which has been... sort of plagued most of my life. So I'm creeping up on 49. So I think being a father later in life, I'm not... as fearful of missing all those days. So I'm surfing less, but the surfs are more meaningful. And I'm enjoying being a dad. So I think—I think if I looked at parenthood as a burden, then I'd have a different viewpoint, but I see parenthood as... yeah, it's just a real gift, and it's enhanced my life. So it's... you know, somehow it's all working out and balancing, and yeah, it's really good.
Michael Frampton
Was that something that sort of just naturally happened when you became a dad, that you just accepted your new role as a father and jumped in? Or was the FOMO something you had to work on specifically?
Devon Howard
No. No, I didn't have to work on it because—yeah, I think this natural feeling and excitement of being a father took over. And like I said, because I have—my wife knows that it's important, she actually tells me to go surfing more. Like, I'd be more apt to hang out with kids and not worry about it. And she's like, "No, you should go, this is a good one, go for it." So I didn't—lucky for me, I didn't have to work on it. I think if you're a young parent in your 20s, you know, it's still—you're developing your identity of who you are. And, you know, there's good and bad about being a parent late in life. You know, the bad are the obvious things of, you know, when they're, whatever, eight, nine, ten years old, if you can't even get out of a chair because your body's so wrecked, you'd be like, "Man, I should have had kids earlier." But the maturity level is really good. I think I'm available to be a better parent at this stage than I would have been 20 years ago.
Michael Frampton
That's good to hear. You're embracing it. So with our first episode, we discussed longboards and longboarding. The second episode we did, we discussed mid-lengths, but specifically single fin, Slack two plus ones. And now you've been surfing the Mid Twin. What's your relationship been like with twin fins in general since your surfing—in your surfing life? And how has that developed into the Mid Twin?
Devon Howard
Yeah, they are always—twins have always been on the fringe of what I've been doing with my surfing interests. ’80s and ’90s, and the two plus one was really the dominant fin feature—or thruster. So I had longboards with two plus ones, little small three-and-a-half-inch side bites and roughly seven-inch center fins. Because I rode Donald Takayama's, they were pretty narrow in the base. And in his fin setup, he ran narrow base but deeper to hold in for nose riding. And then the odd shortboard I had was a thruster. And then when I got into the egg boards in the late ’90s, I guess, embraced them. They were... three fins at the time. So twins—I’d had a fish or two over the years, and they just always were sort of just out of grasp. No particular reason. I think just out of comfort. And then I know I had a long fish at one point for a while from Josh Hall. I think it was a 6'9". And unfortunately, I went through a period where I was really broke, and I had to pay rent, and I had to sell some key boards. And I think everyone can relate to those periods of life. And I still think about—there’s a few boards that I sold during that period that I've recently gotten back. I bought them back.
Michael Frampton
The exact board or...?
Devon Howard
Yes.
Michael Frampton
Wow.
Devon Howard
Yeah! It’s probably really stupid and, I'm not great with money. Everyone knows that that knows me, but I don't really care. I just—they were special boards and I didn't want to sell them. But I never got that long fish back. It's a blueberry color. It's out there somewhere. Someone's enjoying it. In San Diego, especially twin fins, there's a real deep connection with them—Steve Lis and the fish—and lots of shapers in that town have lots of ties to that design. And when, like I said, when I was getting into these egg boards in the ’90s, it was all about the tri-fin. And then, I don't know when it was, sometime in mid 2006, ’07, ’08, ’09-ish, I just decided to put the two plus one over onto it. And at that time, if I cared about what other people thought, I would have just done it as a single fin because they were considered cool. Obviously, they look cool. But I really liked the drive and the control and the ease and the comfort and reliability of the two plus one. So I just kept fine-tuning that, and the people I was sort of looking at, that I was inspired by, would be Dave Parmenter and Neal Purchase Jr., among others. But they were kind of fine-tuning that area. There were people riding Bonzer boards. If you have a three-fin Bonzer, it's sort of in—I'm not saying they're the same—but I think they're in the same universe. Kind of what you're looking for—you’re looking for the freedom of a single fin, the freedom on the face, but that extra hold and drive and lift when you really need it in a critical section, off the bottom, and cutting back. And then when I started, I've developed different boards over the years, but in more recent years, the Channel Islands connection, which we've discussed in the past, is where all the knowledge really blossomed and came together. Just a fantastic board. I've run into so many people—I mean, at this point, hundreds of people—that have shared how much they like the board. And I was asked a lot, why didn't you do it as a twin fin? Or why isn't it a twin fin? It was really simple. I was just being true to myself and what I liked. Torren Martyn was making twin fins. It was a lane that he was in. That's his thing. I knew that this was going to work great as a two plus one. So once that was—you know—we said that thing was sent off into orbit and it's doing its thing. I have nothing more to add to that conversation. And now people are enjoying it. And then I was like, okay, how does it work as a twin fin? Anything that's new—all surfers know this—that's why we keep buying new surfboards because we're always... a new feeling is really exciting. You know, it's like when you're dating someone and, you know, you kiss somebody for the first time—it’s really exciting. I mean, unless they're a horrible kisser—it could be awful. A dead fish kiss is nothing to write home about. But a really passionate, intimate kiss—well, it sends electricity through you, right? And surfboards can do that. And then sometimes after a couple of dates or a couple of times of kissing, you're like, I don't know why I thought that was so awesome. It's just okay. And that happens a lot with board designs, I think. And with the twin, I definitely had that new-kiss feel like, holy shit, what is this? It's just a different... it's a different vibe entirely. So the difference, from my experience with the boards I'm riding anyways—I can't speak to others out there—but I played around with it. It took a few times to find out, well, what fin template do I like? There are upright fins for twin fins that are more Mark Richards-inspired, and then there's the keel-type fin family. And, you know, there are things in between. And then there are even folks that—it’s not a twin fin—but dabble in twinzers where you add a canard fin. And that's a whole other thing I haven't even gotten into. I've tried a few. That's sort of the next frontier, maybe, to mess with those. But the really interesting things with twinzers—I rode a Larry Mabile in Mexico a friend had—and really interesting things going on with twinzers. And there are lots of surfers who are really into the twinzer thing. But back to the twin—I actually bought—I probably spent, I shouldn't brag about this—but I spent probably a thousand dollars easily on different fin templates. I just went out there and looked at all what was out there and just went on a journey for a year. Tried different fins, tried different placements. And where I landed—and I'm six feet one inch tall, 195 to 190. My fighting weight is—like everyone has their fighting weight from 20 years ago—it’s probably 180, 185. So I've settled into this dad body. I'm okay with it. And the keel fins really have spoken to me. So I'm riding an AMK—that's the Al Merrick keel fin—and it was developed with a board called the FishBeard. It looks like a classic keel outline, but it has a flat inside foil. And it's got a bit of a cant to it, so it's not just straight up and down. So the fin's toed in toward the nose a little bit and cants out a little bit. I don't remember the degrees—don't hold me to it—it's four or five degrees, maybe five degrees. And, God, that is really good. And the difference between the two plus ones I've been riding and that—and then single fins are sort of in a different lane—the difference I felt was acceleration. There was a different... almost like another higher-end gear. Like if a car has four gears, this one had a fifth gear. The way—the difference for me—and it was off the bottom. I could push harder and it would shoot me out with an added burst of speed up the face and down the lines. I'm not saying like 2x or anything. Maybe it's a 5% more or something, but it's noticeable. And it gives you some confidence when you're going down the line, especially at a crowded break where there's a lot of people and chaos. Having that extra speed, you're allowed to make more confident decisions and avoid problems. And then the other speed place that I found was out on the cutback on the face. It had a different sort of acceleration. It felt faster. What I maybe didn't like about the twin as much—I couldn't do as tight of a turning radius. So if I'm on a head-high wave, kind of like those pictures that you said you saw on Instagram—those photos—I'm on a two plus one in that day. It was head high to double overhead. And there were some tight walls and maneuvering and things that I knew I wanted to do. So I opted for the two plus one because you can do a tighter arc. And when it's crowded, if you need to adjust and get around the kind of the buoys, it's safer. The twin fin, because of that wider fin, I just can't turn as tight. That's not a bad thing. It's just that I'm just drawing a little bit different lines. So how I describe it is, the twin fin is a wider arc at a higher speed. The two plus one is a tighter arc. It's not slower, but it's just a little bit less. You feel it's not quite as fast. But I mean, we're kind of splitting hairs here. This is getting—like, you know, from the speed side of things, I think the way that I'm choosing the twin or the two plus one is based off of a mood or an attitude. And what sort of line do you feel like drawing today? So if the waves are small, I'm enjoying the two plus one more if I'm in a turning mood. If the waves are small, but I'm just interested in hauling ass down the line and making sections—like a really fast Australian point break that's just going, you know, like if I was at Snapper or J-Bay and it was just hauling ass—I would go for the twins. Because that top-end speed, for me, is higher. If it's a facier wave and maybe not grunting and not as much power, I like the way that two plus one feels on the face. Because it taps a little bit more into the freedom of the single fin, where you just feel like you can go where you want. A twin fin—it's not that it's tracky, but it's a trackier feel. So that's why it's wider.
Michael Frampton
That's a good description. Yeah. That was a brilliant breakdown of the two—two boards. You're talking about a mid-length twin fin, correct? Yeah, so it's really cool.
Devon Howard
To be really clear, you know, I don't ride—I don't ride shortboards. I dabble in fish here and there. But those experiences I just described are speaking specifically to people—what I call an egg. And I can't remember if we got into the nuance of all these names. Did we talk about the difference between egg—
Michael Frampton
Well, because the—I mean, you could, but there's no—I think you could call it a fish egg if the front had an egg, but the tail had a fish on it.
Devon Howard
And...
Michael Frampton
So we have a rounded tail on it. And that is a name that's on the table that would, you know... There's caviar, there's fish egg. I think there's folks out there who already have these names, but...
Devon Howard
Well, I wanted to see through the project so that round tail, sleek, pulled-in egg design was one that was very refined. The bottom and the rocker is just spot on. So it was more like a curiosity, like, how would this go? Because so many people asked, does it work as a twin? I said, I don't know. Or, why don't you put channels in it? And I was like, well, I don't really think you need the channels. You know, the channels are for grip and that's just like a dance between the size of the fin and the bottom contours you had. So the fin's always riding. I wasn't having any issues with the board slipping or sliding. And it wasn't having any issue with speed. So I wanted to—I decided, hey, let’s just stick with that bottom we have, which is a—it's sort of double barrel through the fins with a bit of—it’s got a bit of V in there. Some people call it spiral V, double barrel concave. There are different ways to describe it. I think the true naming convention for the bottom I’m riding on these boards is spiral V. So there's no single concave in it anywhere.
Michael Frampton
Okay.
Devon Howard
And here's sort of a flat bottom. Almost a tiny bit of roll, but pretty much flat from the nose to the forward third. And as you get to the middle, we start shaping in the two concaves on either side of the stringer. And if you were to take a straight edge and put it on the bottom of the board, there is, there's—from the stringer line to the rail line—it drops down. So there is like a type of V there, but it's scooped out. So it goes rail to rail really easily and real confident, but you get some lift. It's just a beautiful combo, and the rail is great. Didn't see the need on this particular board to change the tail. However, there's other ones I'm messing around with that are very different, you know? So what I've been riding is a—some people call them a speed egg—it's just an egg that's kind of pulled in. This word "mid-length," for anyone who hasn't been following along in the story, mid-length is just the name of the category, just like shortboard. There's a lot of types of shortboards, just like a longboard—there's lots of types of longboards. Mid-length is just this really convenient catch-all. But, you know, as you know, there's so many ways to go with mid-lengths—fish tails, giant square tails, giant squash tails, right? Yeah, no, it's good fun.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, well, you've got me excited to surf a board like this already just now. Yeah.
Devon Howard
And if you look at—if you get a chance—watch the video that we made. It's on Channel Islands' YouTube. And Michael February's in it. Yeah, Cliff Kapono, really great guy.
Michael Frampton
I have watched it. Yeah.
Devon Howard
And you can see everyone's got a slightly different approach to it. But I think there's a common thread in it, which is these sorts of boards—I'm sorry if this is repetitive for anyone who's heard our chats before—but the commonality is, there's... mid-lengths as a category. Let's say if you don't ride them properly—if we're allowed to use that word to describe it—you know, at their optimum, it's a rail surfing. You're using the rail of the board as opposed to tail surfing. So tail surfing is something more what you would be doing on a shortboard. There's less rail in the water on a shortboard in most of the maneuvers. Obviously, with a cutback and a bottom turn, you're putting a lot of the rail in the water on a shortboard. But in shortboarding, there's a lot of maneuvers in between and around that where you're really using a lot of the fin. You're surfing off the tail quite a bit. The tail and the fins are coming in and out of the water, releasing and reengaging. It's a really exciting, physically demanding type of surfing. And then the mid-length boards—there's more finesse that's required and more knowledge of the wave, your board, and positioning. And so you're mastering this dance of maneuvering this long rail through the water. Something that's similar to it—if anyone's ever gone skiing—is Telemark skiing. If you don't know what Telemark skiing is, it's that rare individual you'll see up on the mountain. As they're going down the mountain, the heel of their boot is coming up off of the ski. They're going up on their toe, and they're doing these drop-knee turns where they—as they turn—the outside leg drops down, and they turn. And that's—you know—there's a dance and a rhythm that has to be mastered there, because the skis are quite long, and you're just in continuous movement and engaging and going back and forth. And that's kind of what you're doing on a mid-length. You're not pumping the board. You're doing these wider swoops, where you draw down into the bottom of the wave and you really want to be in the power source of the wave. You want to be where the bowl and the wave's cupping out ideally, and you draw down the bottom of the wave, and then it's sort of like a wind-up toy. You're winding up the board and springing off the bottom and letting it shoot you down to the next section. And technique-wise, you always want to kind of aim for nine o’clock. You don’t want to take mid-lengths typically and go straight up the face. You can certainly do it, but it will pull you out of that rhythm. Because the board will go straight up the face, and you'll sort of get this release. But there's so much rail and board that when you come back down, it invariably catches and you sort of lose the rhythm and the dance aspect of it. So the real benefits of these mid-length boards is to tap into that longer rail surfing. And so, understanding the relationship between the way your fins are set up will help you settle into the best rhythm. And then if you—I don't know if you want to touch on single fins, if anyone is trying to decide between twin, two plus one... should we talk about singles?
Michael Frampton
Sure.
Devon Howard
I can't remember if we covered that before. Sorry.
Michael Frampton
A little bit, but... but that's what I was going to ask you, is like, when it comes to the mid-length—first of all, it's like, I mean, the video you just mentioned, obviously, the mid-length is—nowadays it's so refined, it's not really holding you back. It's almost adding to everything nowadays. And then so what is the difference between, in terms of—especially in terms of like technique and your approach—between the single, the two plus one, and the twin?
Devon Howard
I think that my experience with the single fins I've been riding is... there's more—probably the most freedom—on the wave face itself. Because there's no fins near the rail. Whether you're on a twin or two plus one, when you have fins near the rail, they're turned in what we call toe. So the fins are actually, on each side, are aimed at the tip of your nose of your board. And so when you're going straight, there's actually drag occurring from a hydrodynamic standpoint. You're still going plenty fast enough. It's not like you're dragging an anchor, but you can feel it when those are removed and it's just a single fin. Going from point A to B, there's a sense of freedom there that's hard to put into words, but it's a really electrifying feeling. And I think a lot of people are attracted to that feeling that are surfing—they're not surfing for performance reasons. They're not surfing to quote-unquote "rip the wave." You know, everyone's a little bit—they're motivated by different things. Some people are really focused on maneuvers and shredding the wave and getting the fins out, like I was saying, or doing an air or doing these sorts of things. And there's a whole other group of folks that are really just in this for a feeling that they get that bleeds through the board into your feet. And I think the ultimate sensation comes from a single fin. So the upside—the sort of positives—of the single fin are this freedom feeling, and tube riding especially. They feel great tube riding. And if you do a single fin on a longboard, they're exceptionally... it's really a benefit when you're nose riding. Fantastic. The only sort of downside to them, for me, my own experience, is when I'm in a critical moment and the waves are kind of legit or bigger and I want to push as hard as I can, I don't feel as confident. Maybe it's my lack of experience on single fins—that's quite possible. I don't find that I'm getting the drive and the speed out of the turn. I'm not accelerating out of the turn. I'm kind of along for the ride with a single fin. And I think if you're of a lower or medium ability, that's a great benefit. You're not fighting things—aspects of the board—you're kind of just going. You're pointing the board and going. You're along for the ride, so to speak. And that's a really good thing. It's a low-stress kind of surf experience. Because of my experience—and I'm trying to push myself and really find the limits of something—I like that. I like the feeling and the pushback and sort of being almost hanging on by my fingernails. Not really like a free solo, because there's really no consequences, but free soloing a rock that's six feet off the ground, and just knowing I'm hanging on by a thread, but I'm doing something incredibly difficult and pushing the limits. Having the twin or the two plus one—any fin or quad, for that matter—the fins by the rail, I'm getting what's called lift out of it, the same effect you get out of an airplane wing. And that's what we call drive. There's this connection to the wave, and as we're pushing through the turn, not only do we have hold and grip and confidence—we know we're not going to fall flat on our face—there's a sensation of accelerating through it. And that's just as fun to me as being in a race car and pinning it on a turn. And that's what I’m after. That's what I want to do. A CT-level shortboarder is doing that, even in—I don't know—exponentially more. I mean, they're just at another level. They're taking that sensation to the next level. But for us regular folk here on the ground, and it's more realistic. Most of us that could crank a really good bottom turn or a cutback—that's just like the coolest feeling. And my belief is that the twins—or any fin configuration that's near the rail more—is going to give you more control, speed, and confidence. And so that's not me knocking a single fin. I think that's just acknowledging that the feelings, the sensation, and the performance I get out of them are quite different. And I think if you can look at all those scenarios and—if you're going to purchase a board or you're looking at what's in your garage—figure out what feeling are you after?
Michael Frampton
Single fins are like driving a Rolls-Royce around a racetrack. You've got to be very deliberate and predictive and there's no room—you've got to choose your line early on. You can't brake too hard. You're not going to accelerate out of the corner that fast. But gosh, it's a smooth, fun ride.
Devon Howard
Yeah, exactly. Yes. Absolutely. And I spend a lot of time on single fins. I like them. They're really... I feel like your surf style is just at the best it can be when you're on a single fin, because there's nothing really getting in the way of you fully expressing yourself on a wave. If you're into style, it just sort of like—feeling that energy—I think single fins are the best for that. Most of the big... almost. Yeah, I don't have any big boards that aren't a single fin. All of my longboards, gliders, and those sorts of things are all single fins. They're great. And then I don't really ride single fins—6'11" is probably the shortest I have. If I get shorter than that, I want more drive out of the board. Then I need more with those fin configurations we just—
Michael Frampton
Discussed. Yeah. How does the—would you take the twin fin out on left-handers, on your backhand?
Devon Howard
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I do get people ask that quite a bit. In that video that we mentioned earlier—and unfortunately, I'm not going left on it because where I live, it's 99% rights. And back to the parent thing, I'm not really traveling anywhere for waves. I'm just focusing on what's here in our backyard. But Michael February in that video, I think, exemplifies the potential and how great it works backside. And he's surfing it backside better than I can. I mean, I was like, wow, okay. I can do okay backside, but it's mostly because I'm not getting enough practice. But, you know, I'd like to go sit on a left point somewhere for like a week or two. Same. Right. It does go backside. You just gotta not get a little over—you can't really get carried away or over-aggressive. You kind of overshoot the mark. So when you watch Mikey, I think he's doing some of the best backhand surfing on that type of board. You don’t see much of Torren Martyn doing it, but it is out there. He's the other guy I've seen. But it is easier frontside. For sure. With long rail boards.
Michael Frampton
It's really?
Devon Howard
Always easier. Backside on short rail twin fins. In my experience.
Michael Frampton
I've always struggled with the traditional sort of short twin fin fish on the backhand. But I can imagine having more of a refined mid-length, a bit more rail, a bit more forgiveness, would be okay on the back end.
Devon Howard
Yeah. Yeah, no, it definitely—it goes. And so if you get a chance, revisit that and like, spend some time with them. Like there's only three or four rides of Mikey, but it gives you an idea. And you can see there's a moment or two—I wouldn't say he's struggling—but you could tell that it’s not as easy as frontside for sure.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, well, I'll put links to that video in the show notes, etc. That's a pretty inspiring video, and it's a pretty exciting surfboard model. Congrats.
Devon Howard
Yeah, thanks. Yeah, we're having a lot of fun on it. And yeah, we had some nice waves here this winter. It was a very short-lived winter in Southern California, where we're calling from, and things have quieted down quite a bit. But there are rumors that—not rumors—there are some people, scientists, in pretty strong agreement, let's say, that El Niño is very likely to be in the cards for us for next winter, 2023–24. So for the folks here on the West Coast of California, that's the huge potential for surf. And weather—unfortunately for anyone down in the Australasia areas—El Niños don't often pan out to be the best for you guys for weather and waves. But it's been really good down in Australia and New Zealand for the last few years.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, we've had some good waves here too, where I am as well. Not a summer, but plenty of rain and weather, which gives good surf, as you know. It's been fun. But there's so much room for these twin fins—I'm sorry, for these mid-lengths as well. You've got the two plus one, which you can ride as a single. Now you've got the twin fin setup. I imagine it going—you might even be looking at trying a quad, playing with the tail design. And of course you've got the two, like the trailer—having a little trailer fin in the twin fin. I always love surfing boards like that too.
Devon Howard
Yes. Yeah, the Gudauskas brothers are just coming out with a board that has that, but it's not a mid-length, it's a shorter board. They're calling it a two plus one as well, but it's a twin plus a trailer. And there's—I've been—people pointed out to me, "You shouldn't call the large fin in the center and the small side bites a two plus one. It's a one plus two." Yeah. Logically, yeah. I didn't come up with these rules, but it's not—well, it's not supposed to—it's supposed to be freedom, but there is quite a bit of dogma in surfing.
Michael Frampton
Surfing has no rules.
Devon Howard
If you think back to it over the years, it's—everyone's doing this. Everyone wears black and white suits. Everyone has white boards. Everyone does this. We... You know, there's two sides of the coin in surfing for us, which I'm amused by. I find it funny because we're supposed to be the most free-thinking folks out there. In a lot of ways, we are. But if you think about it, there's a lot of rules. So it's just a little interesting. We—maybe, yeah.
Michael Frampton
Call them principles.
Devon Howard
Yeah.
Michael Frampton
Principles and etiquette. Yes. Well, creativity needs a certain amount of boundaries because pure freedom is just... nothingness.
Devon Howard
Anarchy?
Michael Frampton
There you go. Exactly. Well, Devon, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it. And excited to try this new board out.
Devon Howard
Yeah, thanks for checking in. Sorry if I rambled too long. You know, I don't ever write about this or speak about it too much, so... it's fun to sit here and go through it with you. I do get a lot of questions on Instagram—direct messages—about this very subject.
Michael Frampton
Exactly.
Devon Howard
Got to get a two plus one. Now I'm just going to send them this link. No, I'm serious. And I'm trying to be funny about it. Because it's—it helps. It's helpful for me to sort of work through it with you. Because I know it, I feel it, but then articulating it is not always the easiest because surfing is all based off of feels. And feels are—what I'm feeling may not be what you're feeling. Borrowed a friend's board—it’s the best board they've ever had—and you're just completely baffled by why they think that. You think, "Well, this board's okay." Or you might even think, "This board's not that great." So there's not always a universal solution, sort of truth to this information, but I think that there's a reasonable amount of info that can give you a really good starting point.
Michael Frampton
Yeah. What we just went through—if you're sitting there thinking, well, what am I after? What do I want to feel? What do I want to experience?
Devon Howard
Yeah. And there's no guarantee on the information we shared today. I think it's going to get anyone listening—if they've had questions or are on the fence—maybe it nudges you in the right direction to then go down that path and then realize that within that path you've chosen, now it's time for a little bit of experimentation. Because there's a lot of variety and variables within those fin categories we've gone through. You know, the single fin—there's really upright and narrow-based, there's really raked and narrow-based, there's really narrow, raked and wide-based. And then it's the same—as we remember when we were talking about the twins—it’s like upright MR style, squatty keel style, or there are fins in between those. The other one I didn't mention earlier that I liked is—was called the BMT. It was a Britt Merrick twin. It was between a Mark Richards-style fin and the AMK, which was that bigger keel one I described. And that was probably my second favorite fin because it was a good sort of hybrid version of that. But... yeah, I wish people the best. And if someone has a reasonable question, you're welcome to reach out to me. I probably won't give this much in-depth info in the response, but if I can, I'll try to answer the questions.
Michael Frampton
Yeah, no, it's been excellent. Thank you for your time, Devon. Really appreciate it. I will put links to the surfboard model so you can check out the details and order one through CI.
Devon Howard
I appreciate that. All right.
Michael Frampton
Awesome. Hope to see you soon. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in. You can follow Devon on Instagram at @devonhoward. You can listen to our previous episodes—episode number 41 and episode number 70. Please, if you haven't already, subscribe to the podcast and go ahead and give us a rating and a review. That's the best way to support us. Until next time, keep surfing.
86 How To Surf Twin Fins - With Devon Howard
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