Robert "Wingnut" Weaver didn't start surfing until he was 17! How did he get so good, so fast? All is revealed in this episode. Wingnut also generously shares his surfing wisdom from decades of experience as a surf coach and guide.
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Transcript
Michael:
Why did you agree to do this podcast?
Guest speaker: Wingnut
Yeah, one learn how to do so zoom. You know, I'm a huge fan of, I guess surf instruction, surf coaching, trying to help people get better at it and you know years ago I did. I started the O'Neill surf Academy in Europe, with Richard Schmidt and I did that for O'Neill, Europe, and we ran through seven countries over seven weeks. And we did 50 kids each day, five, five days in a row in each country and then we would move on. So it really helped me understand how fun it is to get people involved in our sport. And back then, you know, there was all this the brand battles whose cooler O'Neill Quicksilver, you know, Billabong, and I thought it was more important to get more people into the sport. And then the brands could later differentiate who was more important to them. But my marketing background convinced me that if I could get the kids that were under 15, dialed into O'Neill because we taught them how to surf and they can't get there without their parents. So that means their parents at the end of the year when they're buying their back to school clothing, if they're debating between Quicksilver and O'Neill, while the O'Neill guys taught my kid how to surf. So I had the pre-teen and I had the parent with the money dialed in on Neil and I had the kids hooked on surfing to the rest of their life. So that's kind of how I got involved with you know, teaching people how to surf.
Michael:
That's what you still do today. Correct?
Guest speaker: Wingnut
Yeah, so my primary awkwardly said source of income is I guide private surf trips and I do coaching.
Michael:
Do you still work with the younger? What's your typical client?
Guest speaker:
Most of my clients are adults, and then it's their children that get involved as they become more involved. I mean, kids are brilliant because they've never learned failure. Right. As you get older, you learn there's things you can't do. Or that they're hard to do. Whereas the kids like you can do it. I can do it. Right. So kids pick up any sport at any time, and they've got unlimited energy, unlimited time and unlimited resources thanks to their parents. Whereas the adult, has a job has a family has all these things. That restrict their time and ability to progress in the sport.
Michael:
Do you think that's the biggest barrier for the adult or someone coming later? And is it the biggest barrier, the time factor for getting better?
Guest speaker:
It's 100%. They're supporting themselves, their family. I mean, if you're an adult that is married, then you're immediately after your time has gone committed to your spouse, you have kids that it's even more so because it's your responsibility to provide for them to be with them to be part of their growth. Your growth starts to take a backseat the lock the larger families,
Michael:
Also, so when you're training clients, you're on a trip with them, so you get a little bit more of their time.
Guest speaker:
It's both ways, right? So I have local clients here in Santa Cruz. They're here when they're here for two or three hours. They're all mine are all focused. But when we're on a trip that it's totally different than we can be working in the morning on physical stuff. We're talking diet, we're talking where we're going to serve. We're reviewing images of the day before serve, and we'll get two or three searches a day while we're on a trip.
Michael:
Yeah, I mean, you've been doing this a long time. You must have been one of the first surf coaches to really you know, step outside of training the groom, who was the next up and coming.
Guest Speaker:
Right, right and for me there. I don't think it made sense for me to try to teach an up and coming groms First off, my specialty would be longboarding, and there's really not a career path that way. So why would you come to me for that? And there were a great surf coat. But back when I was doing it started 25 years ago, there was nobody doing that anyway. It was just abuse from older good surfers, that's how you train Groms right but the retired Pro are still existing pro he found a kid that he thought was pretty good. And he just harass the shit out of them until they got even better. And it was that abuse from a higher ranking peer that made you a better surfer.
Michael
Yeah. Yeah, there's certainly there was an initiation.
Guest speaker:
Right, right. You want it to get to the point where they stopped giving you shit, right? And that's how I think that went on. So when I started doing my first trips, it was It wasn't so much about coaching at that point, as it was about organizing a trip. Somebody wanted to go to Costa Rica for the first time and he knew I had it dialed in, somebody wanted to go to you know, Fiji, Australia, you know, the Maldives, whatever. And they came to me to put together trips, but while we're on those, then the pedantic wing that took took over and I was you know, you're doing this wrong. You're there's an easier way to do this. You know, you suck.
Michael:
Yeah, it's, that's, I mean, that's what's in the, you know, the hunting culture. It's outfitting right?
Guest speaker:
Right!
Michael:
And that's, that's the smart way to do it. I was just previously living in Malibu and that's what you know, I was always a surf coach standing on the beach filming and, and then when I went to live in Malibu, people didn't even want that. They just wanted me to go surfing with them. So I was the surf guide. And then I could talk about and for me, it was like, if someone hesitated on a wave. I would then so where else are you hesitating in your life? Now as that's the sort of approach that you have with your coaching to.
Guest speaker:
Well, let's not talk about the psychological aspect because I really have to rate raise my rates. If I got paid for how much time I talked people off the ledge of the realize.
Michael:
Well, it's I mean, any good coach,
Guest speaker:
Right!
Michael:
I think has done well.
Guest speaker:
And that's it. It's a level of trust, I think that you establish with somebody you work with, you know, it's not a one-time session, hopefully, right? That didn't come to you to figure out how to take off next to the rock, you know, at, you know, at Rock view and figure out can I get right next to it? That's a one-time thing, right? They're coming to you to fix a bunch of problems, and half of them are mental.
Michael:
Well, I think someone's surfing and the way they interact with the ocean is a reflection of what's going on in the rest of their life.
Guest speaker:
I think that's absolutely correct.
Michael:
Let's shift gears back a little bit and to ask you through your professional surfing career, you personally, do you remember any, any plateaus in your performance and your skill level that you managed to get over? And do you remember how you got over?
Guest speaker:
I think there were there were two major shifts. I think that were for me most noticeable in my career. And what run it was funny because it's not really I don't even think about it competitively like before Endless Summer, because I was just you know, chipping away at getting better and better at what how I wanted to ride a longboard, and I was competing in the club events. There wasn't a pro tour at the time. There was NSSA and things like that. But the club events were great and I was doing those and having good success with it. But I think what really happened was the experience that I got traveling around the world doing analyst summer to give me a broader experience with waves, wave types that I'd never seen before. And so I had to figure out how to ride waves. I mean, I grew up riding long boards in California, right? That's a pretty limited style of wave. I'm going to see beach break sometimes big beach break when we have a good swell and otherwise point breaks. So it was a really limited experience that I had. I mean, I did live on Oahu for two years. And so I had a little bit of Hawaii and North Shore experience, but in the summer to getting to go to places and I think this is what kind of patterned my career was I got to serve G land with Gerry Lopez, I got to share surf Jeffrey's bay with Shawn Thompson. So I was given the guide in tutelage of the best ever that had served that place. So that immediately elevated my game, because I wasn't there just figuring out how do I ride this wave better I was told how to ride the wave better. And so that one coming out of endless number two, I think I was 10 times a better surfer going in and going into it.
Michael:
Interesting. Yeah. So it's not just experiencing different waves, but getting to surf those waves with people who already already knew it already made the mistakes that they saw you about to make and they
Guest speaker:
And literally literally G land is a great experience because Jerry would sit out there with paddle call and I and a set would come in and say right like pat you go in number two, I'm going to go and number three because it's better wing that number four is not too shitty. You can have it and Laird is going to take whatever he wants. So everything was like he he set us up on waves that we should be able to succeed on. And for me, what is the number one thing I do when I'm guiding people is it's wave selection, right? We've seen enough waves to know whether that wave is going to be mapable all the way through for the skill level of the surfer that we're working with. Right? Kelly can make anyway but you're not Kelly are a unique one that has a little bit of a softer angle, softer edge and you're gonna make that one and you will learn so much by making it and then when you want to challenge yourself I'm like, go for it. And you'll find out why you didn't make that wave and we'll talk about it when you come back. So I think being set up that way for me by having Shawn do that by having that do that by having Jerry do that. It helped me figure out a great way to help people serve.
Michael:
That's, I mean, that's priceless experience for sure. And is that a lot of what a lot of your coaching is just helping clients with a wave selection.
Guest speaker:
It starts with that right? You know, you got to pick a really good way before you can have a chance to serve really well on and one of the things I see most people do wrong. It starts out with their initial positioning right. Using a lineup? I mean, you know, I, I'll say it right out front. In Australia, the quality of surfer is way higher, the skillet was way higher than it is in America, it's no question about most competitive surf lineups in the world, you really have to have your shit figured out. So it's a lot less. So it's a lot more recreational here. And the biggest mistake people make here is they don't use a lineup. When they serve, they don't figure out where the good wave breaks from, and what it looks like. And so they don't go back to that same spot where success starts. And so that's the first thing I tried to like drill in, is figure out where the mapable wave starts. Then the other work of writing it comes in afterwards, but give them a give them a starting point with a high level of success.
Michael:
Yeah, triangulating your your position. And you have to do it within.
Guest speaker:
Yeah.
Michael:
I mean, I remember I lived in an Avalon surfing little me. And, man, the takeoff zone is so small. If that if it's it comes in, you're out of position.
Guest speaker:
Right. And that's what I like. And again, for me, it's like it's like absolutely a secret gift. And I don't give it to anyone, like the normal crew that I served with, like, I might paddle past you, I still recognize you're there. And it's your turn. But I'm going to where I'm going to take off on this wave when it's my turn. So like getting people, my my guests comfortable paddling past people. I'm like, Hey, we're not Adam, say hi all this and that. But we want to sit where the perfect wave takeoff is. And they will go for their wave. And you know, you're taking turns with a smaller group, right? There could be 30 people in the water, but you're taking turns with like five or 10 that are in the best takeoff spot, right? You're not taking turns with 30 or 40 people.
Michael:
It's a really interesting point. Because I think that for the adult beginner, there's a lot of timidness that stops them doing that. And they just sit in the corner and they wait their turn, and they get the leftovers.
Guest speaker:
You did know then…
Michael:
Yeah!
Guest speaker:
If you're if you're down 50 yards from me, you're not getting a turn, I can't count that far, I can count to 10. I've got the 10 people around me, I'm pretty sure whose turn it is as we go back out, you know, and that and that's what I work with, go to that right spot. And then being confident about your turn, like you've waited, everybody in your circle is gone. And somebody just comes back out sits just on the other side of you and spins for that wave. It's not as turn, you know, it's you. But if you don't initiate and take your turn, that person is going to think they can always do that to you. And that's the other thing. But I I like to say that you make an aggressive first move, and it'll stop 50% of the surfers in the water.
Michael:
Yes, that's true that the guy that pedals out and takes every wave. He's doing that because everyone else lit him.
Guest speaker:
Right. Right. So don't let him go and hit the don't let him do it to you.
Michael:
Yeah, and I think it's, it's so scary because you think you're in your head, you're surfing, you're new to surfing, there's all this surface here and you you don't want to pedal past someone and sit up there because you think, oh, no, he's gonna yell at me and tell me it's not my turn. But so what if he does, and you say, Hey, buddy, I'm sitting here, I'm not going to take your turn. We, this is my spot, that's your spot. You just have that conversation with the person, right? And then they respect you.
Guest speaker:
That's, that's what people don't do. Right? Is they don't respect that other person enough to say, you know, and respect their position. It's like, hey, you know, I mean, if it's just sitting on the other side of them, I wouldn't do it. I would sit just shorter than but if you definitely want to sit 20 feet past him, you paddle by him and you go, boy, I just had a good one. You know, I hope you get one to say something that acknowledges it's his turn. Right? It's the other surfers turn. And then I'm just gonna go hang out here till you get your great one. You do that. And also the lineup becomes a lot friendlier, because when they come back out, you're like, how was it? Did you have a good one? All right. You know, hope I get one next, you know, I mean, that's what we tried to do. And you can calm the level in the lineup equipment.
Michael:
Oh, it more than that. I think that if you do that, you earn the respect. That reminds me like you funny you mentioned Laird, I used to surf out point to him and I used to love sitting on I love big boards, and I'd sit right on the boil that point dune and this will lead sets. And of course he just pedals out catches away. That's what it is that what he does. And in one day, I don't want to say hi to him and be friendly, and it never respond to me. And then one day, it was my turn and he went and I'm going, it's my turn. I went and we surfed and he came out back and he said something to me. I was like, Oh, it's right man. It was my turn and I stood my ground. And from that moment onwards, we chat were friendly.
Guest speaker:
Yeah.
Michael:
I earned his respect by standing up whereas if you don't do that, people like lead will run all over.
Guest speaker:
They will just eat you down there right. So what is apex predators, right I call us apex predators. Right, we know what the good wave is you can take any wave you want at any time. So and we see other apex predators, we understand them. And then we've got to be nice to the other surfers in the lineup to a certain extent. But like I said, if you're going to sit 50 yards down the line, it's, it's going to be you're just too far away. You might as well come up and grab me and look little bit because then you're in that circle of 10 that you know 10 Or 12 that are going to get the wave So position and the company in taking your position is important.
Michael:
And then also you may Before like traveling around and surfing all these different waves that reminds me I remember the first time I went to Cloudbreak and Padlet like I hadn't served thing like that before in my life and it was double overhead Cloudbreak and apparel again and I looked down and it's crystal clear water and it's two foot deep and all you see is Coral Reef and the way It's moving so fast and you just think There's no way it's too fast it's too heavy it's too to shower What am I doing here and then Have a letter like You finally take drop you commit and then You go over the you know this plateau You serve Cloudbreak and it's amazing and you get used to it But the cool thing is when you go home you surf those waves that are a little slow So are you So much more comfortable tight the wave slower time slows down And to me that was a Big plateau and my server too is traveling to some of those spots
Guest speaker:
And I think you know I break is a good example and it happened for me When I lived in Hawaii and I did familiarity breeds contempt If you sit out there long enough Looking at That way that scared the shit out of To win you have to have the boat it'll start to look Like you might be Go to do it and you'll see something Like I I'm as good as same if not better and he didn't die I am like I could take off there I like you just watch it enough that you're like I can do this and say It slowly pulls you into it And yeah when you come home you feel like Superman. And it's like nothing can kill me. Yeah trust me slower than Cloudbreak when you get home.
Michael:
Yeah I remember the first time I went to Feel the water to and it was it We need to seek and swell and it was The thing is you want to to so many Ever surfers out there just having a Craig and you realize Oh they don't get a good it some of them would get washed in and whistle but…
Guest speaker:
A pistol survived so like even the worst wipeouts not battery Cloudbreak actually He has a pretty you know if it's low tide problem but you know I mean when when we made the movie There we filmed at low tide right As the light was perfect so we had implique dry reef inside of us This was before the jetski era So I everyone I am paddling in less than a foot Have water I'm trying to pull my arms flat underneath me so I can So you know traction I get on on the tail of my board so I can get the nose up and try to do a while Brought her client and then paddled frantically trying to get out over sets It was absolutely terrifying.
Michael:
And you're on a low boat.
Guest speaker:
Yeah There's no duck died I mean O'Connell With duck diving and he was stuffing his poured into the reef yet pieces of curling up bottom of his board I mean it was like at that point they didn't Even surfer that low tide we're talking 27 years ago Got Kelly had had This was a lot Long time ago I mean I was I watched Cal He and Tom push each other deeper and deeper and deeper I mean Jeff Clark and Jeff Jeff booth Sam on the side you know he was definitely deeper the bad night but like he would talk about how amazing where they were taking nobody had pushed that far up for and boot he was one of the you know early Cloudbreak guys It's just one those two guys was amazing.
Michael:
Can't imagine with any other plateaus that you can remember in Europe Efficient career.
Guest speaker:
Right so after that I think it was the time that I spent Mark Martin has said So Mark was is one of the best surfers in the 90s 60s early United States he was part of that free nice degeneration came out of harbor surfboard And because you was not a participant in the counterculture of drugs kind of got left out of that seven These serve History thing but Mark was One of the best serve History The Transition era and so Mark ended up becoming more Professional and kind of getting out of the surf industry But he came back when Robert August talk him into coming back and making surfboards for Robert August and He was always an idol of mine but Because the train are so special and what he wrote harbor surfboards in his style was always something that really appealed to me So with Robert bringing more back and we started doing these trips to Costa Rica I got to start With him personally and I got to really watching steady A a really powerful thing Will fan pocket stop Out of surfing that really appealed to me and He was a phenomenal nose writer So spending those two or three years after the movie with Mark sir On a regular basis with him down at Coast rica it kind of opened up my eyes different equipment and you know he just explained to you To me that I didn't understand and so My surfing gun better out after that so that was it movie 92-94 Okay out so by by 2000 I think my surfing had really reached brand new level of work All right where I liked it going to be
Michael:
so just so Surfing with other surfers
Guest speaker:
With somebody and again you Some people can learn by reading I'm a very visual learner I can see someone do it I mean heatedly like gravitate to watch them and study them in Surf with them I think I did that early on my career when I was you know career when I was learning how to surf and You've heard there are a bunch of really great surfers in the black is era area I did not know who they were at the time I didn't realize how good they were in the old We're all lexicon of surfing But so like Kenny had a really rate drop me Don was the best news writer I saw all these guys had things that I wanted you know to get better app and I I would just dog them whenever they paddled out And I would just hang out with them and watch and watch and watch until I figured out how they set up a tour and how to set up a note Whether positioning was opponent has studied it by Watching so I did that when I started here Going out with more than seven.
Michael:
okay so you're So if nerd at heart analyzing things.
Guest speaker:
I'm a historian junkie for the equator man who was writing right at What wave and how things were being done.
Michael:
David Reynolds talk to me and then to about watching people that That's about watching the details tourism
Guest speaker:
It's the little things right you I mean you want to see like how How'd you know are they forward on the board are they new Are the tail you know are they on the end side rail outside rail where's the weight shift where's our hands upper body didn't move at all but you just see what his knees did And there's all this stuff going on There's less than Move it up on the board when you're ready smaller boards but with a bigger board words I mean you're moving constantly there's These shifts side to side Front to back there's all this stuff going going on and then you're trying to keep the upper body completely quiet while it's going on As opposed to smaller boards It's a complete wind up in Release the upper bound It is so important in The whipping and turn Are the board sent home Were the boards this way and the upper body is already transit isn't around to where the next destination is so it's a completely different style of watching with the with the box It does when you're looking at how it's somebody is writing a longboard versus a smallboard.
Michael:
Did you start Short boarding?
Guest speaker:
I've never written a short board What was your firstborn I was gonna say as my son has taken my longboard away from me and made me go is now I know why Trump voters were angry rate we're up to here and 50 degrees Water I'd be angry too My first surfboard was a 960 a sweet surfboard that you Used to be a cocktail Tiki sign in bar that my wrestling coach gave I started surfing when I was 17 years old.
Michael:
Oh, you started late.
Guest speaker:
I was a body surfer I grew up Newport so I bought serve but I didn't serve till I got that board.
Michael:
17!
Guest speaker:
Yeah
Michael:
How old were you when in the summer?
Guest speaker:
How old am I now
Michael:
Getting your first sale At 17 How old were you When in the summer was
Guest speaker: 26
Michael:
Interest started.
Guest speaker:
26
Michael:
I mean you got increased It'll be good in quite a short amount of time most surfers.
Guest speaker:
Remember But remember that I'm a professional athlete again I think I have the right had the advantage of of understanding what because I literally was body surfing at Big Corona beach And in Newport Beach since I was probably 10 or 12 years old So catching waves understanding waves I was ahead of
Michael:
Interesting and that is the foundation of suffering.
Guest speaker:
You know is In a good way of can I catch it which way isn't gonna go all that stuff and that I had.
Michael:
Yeah it doesn't get any more intimate then bodysurfing
Guest speaker:
And then I'll So now you've got a surfboard you can catch a wave Without can catch any way Get that one and I can get back One can get the third wave of the set after the first one.
Michael:
Yeah, interested in my by second child when he was when he was about three he's started just grabbed a bodyboard And we'll just go body voting and then this year So is six and a half this year I never pushed him into surfing Do you want to drag your body forward that's fine Code as long as you haven't Fun at the Beach that's right perfect And then and he just started standing up on his body load into expense and I picked dog in his body And then the ending a couple of months ago he just I A short board my 10 year old rides and he just grabbed it went out and just is First wave on a surfboard just say surfed it all the way and it's like oh I love fence.
Guest speaker:
All right, and I think I think there's a better success rate if you let them come to it at their own speed. You know, like, again, my kid caught his first wave with me on a board when he was 18 months old. And we always bring the toys down to the beach. And then I stopped bringing the board because he didn't, you know, didn't use the the foamy that I had formed, you know, for five years. I'm like, and he's like, where is it? I'm like you want to you bring it down to the beach. But even body eats went out when I was surfing in the body surf next to me super comfortable in the ocean. It just took him a while to want to get on a board. And I think you and I have both seen enough fathers ruin their kids, by forcing them, you know, making them have a horrible wipe out. They don't even want to know about it for five years. So you got to let them come to it at their pace. And if you're really lucky, there's a neighborhood mob that wants to serve. And if they go with the mob, they'll at least you know overcome their fears. Because the same pain is happening to all of them at the same time. So it's like Oh, it must be okay. But if if I push them on a wave and he eats shed “dad!” but if his friend tells him to go and eat shit they come up laughing right so you can't be you know you can't control it too much.
Michael:
No you can't yeah that was I had when I first said My first first child that was the advice was given to me just don't push them into it just they Just have fun yes safe experiences around the world.
Guest speaker:
24 years later my son is a a State Park lifeguard You know and he was the lifeguard at have room for Christmas so he he got into it He's good at it now.
Michael:
There's nothing more joy here with your family So there are some other big news stakes you see in that sort of intermediate adult begin to learn.
Guest speaker:
You know with With the intermediate you know When you're dealing with an adult Like for me I think everybody He wants to go to to smile before Too early right It's almost corny like out of there Really assert you know Hollywood stars Movies and it's called North Shore whatever right where he makes the guy ride from the big board work his way all the way down shortboard until you can do the successful Turn On a seven foot board Start with a nine foot data set foot you're not going to go down to a six foot Before because the The same you know situation In the same positioning the same In dynamics of that turn applause I nine foot eight foot Seven foot six foot you going to be able to do a lot more turns with the six foot board but there's Still going to require the same process and until you can prove you can put The rail in the water activate Fans compress to the turn accelerate out of it with a knife aboard you're not going to be able to do what successfully on eight seven or six everybody gets caught up with the Like can I duck dive this What do you want to do today you want to duck die 40 waves or do you want Right 40 waves But I think I think riding is more fun than duck diving.
Michael:
Yep agreed and that's so I wish I'd known what net When I started because I know I started on a toothpick short abroad and then Oh gosh was probably about five years ago Pope Francis I interviewed him and and he said He said to begin an old law Okay I just did it I was like I was living in alibris in my old law was a custom wayne rich.
Guest speaker:
Again good luck I'll tell you that
Michael:
Yeah well that's the right way there's a way in which right there I just like I couldn't believe I was having so much fun And I just exclusively work. The longboard for ages And then when the waves start turning on a job on my short board and I was so shocked about how much money At a short border I was Haven't never even served a shortboard for months what is it you know my wife’s.
Guest speaker:
It teaches You were the energy is on a wave I mean Writing a waste on the highway is super complicated Finding the energy in it how to feel How to make that make two 150 yards on a knee or waist wave you really dialed in energy feels like an all that information that transfers from the board to your feet to your ankles you know all those Small twitch muscles that figure out how to get speed its way easier on a waste to chest to head high wave you that's got all the energy in the power but now your body understands it You know how to make that same I mean I think Mickey Munoz says one of the one of my eyes have I want to live my life and he's always said there's no bad waves Just bad equipment choices If you're not having fun you didn't choose them right equipment to have fun. You know you bring out you know your skin shortboard on a waist height day you’re you're going to be you're going to you're going to hate every minute of it but you grab a mid July grab grab a longboards Grab a glider and you're just going to have a Smile and rabbit 10 foamy you are going to giggle your way 200 yards of fun more people people need to be willing to do that and not focus on oh I've got my new 6-2.
Michael:
Totally when it When it's knee high and no one and I'm giggling because I've got I live on foot divider and there's no one else all right so I have to catch up 100 ways and I have the time of my life It's the best
Guest speaker:
I had jedno make me a hot girl I love endless 11 foot we went up to the surfing heritage relational thinking that we took templates he talked to his dad got an old gun blank and I have this bitchin you know 10-10 hot girl with no fin and we'll get minus tide appear in Santa Cruz words to foot negative tide the entire top of the ocean solid seaweed it's all kill and there will be a head high well running where you cannot put bored with fins in the water I can't because I don't have those damn fans and I mean I I can go forever on this curl and it's just I mean like the Elia thing it's kind of the same the water is too cold here I'm going to be on a quarter inch thick piece of paper that's five feet long. It seems fine I'll be on top of the water but that unlimited speed that fun that you can get from point and shoot and click finding and dropping in the pocket It's just amazing and it's liberating right You're not thinking about turning you're not saying you're just thinking can I find these views with the lines that just shoot me down the lines and the I wave can be the greatest thing in the world.
Michael:
Oh yeah yeah you're right once you have the right equipment there's so much you can just paddle over there and surf with no no surfing there's 100 people there You're over there just kidding whatever novelty waves and that's the bit.
Guest speaker:
Two or three spots here long pleasure point well the wind breaks it's kind of good than it is It's a deep spot and you can't make it through on a surfboard that stands up again well that The ultimate stand up paddle place the guys that are smart enough to go surf those spots, they come out of the water exhausted grinning because they actually cut three waves that was always the same way because it disappeared when it hit that whole stood by back up and they were able to like stroke through it because 11 foot board wrote it again for another 50 yards hit the deep spot pedal through and then go again and I'm like those are the three smartest guys in the water right now because they're getting the right away but nobody else can with no competition it's like hats off, after you guys you know figuring out how to use this limited resource what's out there like what's hot tide nowadays Not even breaking that perfect line coming through the foilboard guys have that completely licked now I'm like congrats selections you're winning you'd like to we can't serve and you are last heard from getting four waves in I think there's all these ways to figure out how to have fun in the sport so let's not make it harder on ourselves by oh gotta ride this 5-10. Remember driving up and down the castle coast to coast you know I live in Santa Cruz My family's down in Newport, you're pulling I'm checking the surf all the way down the coast and I I would watch 10 guys paddle for a wave and no one catch it and then just like either watch it for like two sets for them like they're still in, they're not smart enough to put the right board Water they're so caught up in that You know littler is cooler yeah sure if it's you easy to carry but it sucks or too bad.
Michael:
It's only in surfing can you imagine if you went down to the local tennis court and there was there was 10 people playing tennis with no strings on their racket.
Guest speaker:
Even a golf yeah the pros play with blades they played with these really hard to hit clubs. You would have a miserable time if they handed those to you and you had to try to play around the golf coast so yeah make it easier not harder to foam is your friend you you can even have a small board that has extra foam you to have the center be a little thicker good everybody's calling I don't like oh I only ride 28 liters or 29 liters. I’m like if you were out deserted island you know and a 6-10 showed up would you not ride it because it's 40 liters you know the only surfboard not found my liters not going to write it I'm just gonna sit here watch the perfect waves till I get rescued you know don't let that dictate how you have fun how you grow as a surfer how can you have fun each time you go serve If you're fortunate to have two or three boards to choose them please choose wisely.
Michael:
Yes, you can never own too many surf boards.
Guest speaker:
We might discuss that spouses might discuss add even more So going back back into coaching and training I always paddle out with the aspirational board underneath me. I want you to ride the nine-foot board. Alright, the eight-foot board. If the conditions are perfect, catch a bunch of waves on the eight-foot board, but if it goes to shit, get back on the nine-foot board. I have that board with me because I don't surf when I'm working with someone. I'm not there to catch waves. I'm there to make sure you get waves. So we can trade back and forth the board that you think you want to ride. Oh, I think I want to try a quad I'll have the quad you have the thruster, or you know all have the twin fan you have the single I mean, we play that game so that the student can start experimenting in the exact same conditions what those two points will do. Another reason why it's better to be in the water. Than on land.
Michael:
I struggle with the not catching any waves thing. I mean, it's one way to..
Guest speaker:
Stop it. Stop it while you're there. But yeah, yes, there is a point where it's good to demonstrate what you want them to do. I grant that but one of the things one of the things that has made what I do successful is I'm not taking two waves out of a set. When I'm working with a client. I'm giving him my wave him or her my wave and usually it's not the a plus wave out of the set. I want to let the apex predator have that. He knows that if I was in the water, I beginning it but when that person comes back out and I'm giving the A or A minus wave to my client, they're gonna let me do that because I'm not going to take another wave. So it allows me an ability to work in a busy lineup, and I'll be accepted. I'm only I've had a lot of good waves so I can let a few go. I'm not saying it doesn't hurt. I'm just saying that that's part of what I want. You know, and again, like I agree with you, it's important like if I want them to see how the shoulder rotation should be how that turn should be done. You know, I will wait because they have to finish their way they have to be paddling back out and then I will try to catch something that I can illustrate that point on for them.
Michael:
Yeah, no, that's that's a good point. I always I quite I do like watching the surfer from closer into the shore. So sometimes I'll catch a wave and watch them to get that view because sometimes when you're looking from behind the wave, you don't get to see their technique.
Guest speaker:
You can't see where they failed, right? I agree with you. I mean, it's a little bit easier. Like when you're watching when you're trying to analyze what somebody is doing on a smaller board and how they're that they're not compressing into their turn. They're not doing that. You can't see that from behind. Right. I completely agree.
Michael:
Yeah, sometimes I'll even catch a wave and just stand on the tail in the foam and just go and I'll watch them from from there.
Guest speaker:
Yeah, I will do that all the time. Whereas I will, you know, catch that wave with them. And so that I can talk them through like or shoulder and I think that one swing thought you know, one thought per session until they master it is like you were trying to fix one thing, right? So all I'll be paddling next to him as they're going for that wave. And I'm like remember your shoulder remember your shoulder, you know, trying to get them that's the only thing going on in their head, and then I'll catch that way behind him. And if they're not doing it then I will start to verbalize to work that hey, dumbass use your shoulder.
Michael:
Can you think of any, any life lessons that you've learned directly from surfing?
Guest speaker:
Oh, sure. Adaptability. I mean, the ocean changes all the time. I think that's the number one thing that we get from being surfers is our ability to quickly adjust to changing circumstances. The tide, the wind, the crowd, everything's changing on us and we have to adapt to ride that wave as best we can. And we have to be fluid and easy with it. And overcome a mistake, you know, like hero to zero right? You have a great wave your top of the world. The next one you pearl on takeoff and gets pitched over the falls. Shake it off. Shake it off or go in. And it's like, wow, that one was on me, wasn't it? You know, and you come out laughing. I mean, one of the things always controversial is I served without a leash 99% of the time. But usually there's nobody between you and the short right? There is a group where you're taking off but if you eat shit, there's nobody between you and the beach. So the only penalty is that you have to go for a swim. And it's that swim that allows you to contemplate what your mistake was and figure it out. Especially if the waters 50 degrees. Really want to know why you are up to your neck in fifth degree water. Because I think if you have a leash on you eat shit. You pull your leash in, got your board and you're paddling out and you're thinking about your next wave. Try to get out of the way and thinking about your next week. You spent no time considering the mistake that put you in the water. Whereas if you're swimming, you have that contemplate that time to contemplate what the hell just happened. Like what's the point one of my guests wipes out? When they come back? I make them rewind the movie like what happened? What happened? Why and they have to click it back to a leash with the rail the third this you know what they did wrong. We don't spend enough time thinking about our mistakes when we're paddling back.
Michael:
To true yeah, yes surfing without a leash does.
Guest speaker:
What I when I moved to Santa Cruz, it was one of the only reasons I was tolerated. Right? And we're talking over 30 years ago, and I'm on a longboard at first peak and pleasure point and I'm the only one out there that's under 50 on a longboard and even the old guys won't start first peak. But I was tolerated because I would swim. If I ate shit. I was gone. And I was gone for 15 minutes looking for my surfboard. And it was like you're not using I wasn't using a longboard as a tool to catch more waves. I was riding it because I appreciated that style and aesthetic. And I stayed true to it. So like I said, when I lost it, it went in sometimes I went into the rocks, and I was gone for two days because I had to repair the board. So that allowed the crew that was here to accept me.
Michael:
Yeah, that's a good good point you make two is for the longboarders listening. Ask yourself that question. Are you writing a longboard so you can catch more waves? Are you riding a longboard because you like longboard.
Guest speaker:
Right and here's the here's a dead giveaway, right? You ever see somebody on a nine foot board and they haven't waxed? You know, the top three feet of the board. That guy's a jerk. He's only out there to get no way of fuck that guy. Don't let him do that. Right. So obviously there are situations where there's people in the shoreline. So if your bird goes in, it's going to hit him. You should wear leash, or it's 100% going to go into the rocks every time if you lose it you should probably wear a leash. But if there's no penalty to the equipment or to other humans, you should really try to when you get to a certain level where your consistency is pretty high to ride that board without a leash so you don't get entangled because if you're truly trying to wander around, walk further back and feel that freedom of the foot work that a longer is so fun to ride forward. Then do it without a leash so that you can really trust yourself and learn to trust yourself. Like if I see anybody in you know chest high waves or smaller wearing a leash and I kind of know where they are and I know it's not really a dangerous situation. I give them zero credit for the waves of writing for the risks they're taking because they're not taking a risk. They're not committing to that knows ride in a pitch and waist high mountain way with a leash on there's no risk. So I'm a bit of a harsh critic on that subject, but that's the way I am.
Michael:
No, I like that. And it's also when you don't have a leash. You have to finish your wave properly to.
Guest speaker:
I for me, surfing is absolutely like gymnastics or ice skating because the Olympics just started. There's the takeoff and there's the kick out and there's the performance in between that first move into a wave whether your fade left before you go right and how you kick out in control of your board. absolutely vital. You're finishing that wave with a statement what skip fries 80 years old and he finishes with dry hair. I mean, that's commitment to picking your way and knowing what you're going to do all the way to the end. And to me that's that's really the ultimate statement and how good you are.
Michael:
Yes, surfing is an art form.
Guest speaker:
Absolutely for me and then it's the only expression that I have right? Can't saying there's no painting there's nothing at all I've all I've got is a certain story. It's really important to me, I really value, the takeoff and the kick out and everything in between.
Michael:
Yeah, and I think when you have that attitude, it's it's a detail, footfall attitude, and that crosses over to the way you surf the wave as well.
Guest speaker:
Right? Really, any it's kind of it's how you finish everything right even in life. You know, do it with you know, thoughtfulness, right? How is this going? To end how I've started this endeavor? How is it going to finish?
Michael:
Yes, every surfer is worried about how they look in the carpark Am I holding down the beach, and then they just jump off a wave and let the leash go. And it just almost spoils the whole thing. If I'm wearing a leash, I'm still trying not to use my leash.
Guest speaker:
Hey! I don't trust leashes. I tell people that all the time. It's like, I hope you're a good swimmer because you know at some point the leash is going to break when you do that. And you are a long way from the shore. You know like I absolutely they're great to have I don't trust them at all. Guys that I would say to me sometimes like, you know, you should have a leash. You know, you just ate shit. I'm like, if I have a leash wiping out next to you. I'm going to my board is gonna hit you and him and him. I mean it's a 10 foot board and a 10 foot leash. It's a 20 foot swath of destruction. If I don't have a leash, it hits the water and it goes and now it's 100 yards away. So you don't want to have a leash on a longboard and a guy that eats ship right around you. It just stays there like a karate chop trying to kill everybody.
Michael:
And I can spring back at you to.
Guest speaker:
Absolutely.
Michael:
Where do you think so things going? It's blown up in the last couple years with COVID and everything.
Guest speaker:
It's growing and I think it's growing in and it'll be interesting to see and I want it to in the best wishes that I have that people will go from the foamies to quality surfboards to understanding you know, the effort that is made to build a surfboard to build the products that we use. I mean, you I see people that are that are buying a $700 wetsuit and they've got a $99 surfboard you know, it's kind of the other way around. Well, that's just gonna last you one or two years that if you buy a good surfboard, like the Wayne rich behind you, it's gonna last you 25 years and then your kid's gonna be riding it. I mean, I have boards that are older than I am. Right so surfboards last so I think this new generation of surfers is going to come to understand I want them to come come to understand how much effort is put into the equipment that we ride and the environment that we ride them in. So for me, we have a huge influx of new surfers. And if they all understand that and understand the environment and how important it is, then it's a good thing. I mean yes, the waters crowded, but if it's crowded with, you know another million people that are going to care about taking care of the environment. I can live with that.
Michael:
It's a good message is there anything else that you would like to talk to the demographic about?
Guest speaker:
Never surfed in Santa Cruz. It's it's dangerous sharks the worst place to ever go. But yeah, no, I mean that's really that's really the message that that I think that I want that I feel better about with the people that I bring into surfing is that the understand more about kind of a limited resource that the ocean and the near shore environment is and how important it is to take care of. And it's nice that you know people do that they see that they understand it and they try to be a part of that.
Michael:
And equipment wise I think that this is the difference between $100 Costco board and a wayne rich custom.
Guest speaker:
I mean, unfortunately those boards at Costco produces disintegrate. So rapidly and are so environmentally toxic. It's hard. I mean, I find these were fun. I get it. But those are like the worst of the worst. They literally disintegrate and peel apart and are the worst polluting things I've ever seen. So I think a more environmentally friendly, foamy safe board. I mean, when I was learning how to surf, it was used boards that had been repaired 25 times open fractures on the rails that would cut you and it was horrible, right? Hard to learn. So now we have foamies and there are higher quality levels of foamies, right, the Costco being literally the lowest technology in the phony way of going and I think cap surf makes a really good one. And there's a whole bunch of them that are out there that are great. And they're they're actually all virtually all made the same factory, but the more expensive they are that means the better materials and the longer the last. And I think that's our responsibility is to try to find things that last. Not that you can return at Costco in three months if it broke, breaks, but that it lasts you for three, four or five years. And that's a good lifespan. But either way in rich in the last 25 to 50 years.
Michael:
Yeah, I mean it is it is nice to learn on a soft top. It's a little safer and for everyone involved. But I mean I've got I've got a soft top but it's an INTP.
Guest speaker:
Rainbow colors on those. It guys are amazing. There's a guy Jim Richardson in Hawaii, who has a company called surf light and he builds a foamy where he builds an EPS like, like like a snowboard inside. That's the rocker and and gives it the flex and then he puts EPP which is boogie board foam. He glues that around it. Buggyboard foam does not absorb water. EPP doesn't evolve. So he skins it with the EPP and then he puts another little skin on the outside. This surfboard looks like an average foamy, but you can cut it in half it will not absorb water at all. I've had one for 15 years of ways the exact same as the day that I got it and it's got claw nails for my dog in it. It's been thin cut, it will not absorb water, but the problem is as a foamy it cost the exact same as a brand new custom surfboard. But it's a foamy that I taught my kid on i I've got probably 20 People that have talked to all their kids on it and it's indestructible. So surf light, you know there are solutions to the foaming problem. We just have to be willing to pay for Jim Richardson. Look it up. He's in Hawaii.
Michael:
Yeah. Yeah. For listeners. I'll find the website. I'll put a link to it in the show notes for listeners. Yeah. Is there any other anything anywhere else you'd like to point people and the surf industry?
Guest speaker:
No. I mean, I think there's great quality out of manufacturers from from board shorts to wetsuits, to surfboards that are out there, and it's it's looking in the community that you live I like to spend my dollar level like you got to rain rich, right? If you're in Malibu, Ventura, Santa Barbara, what a phenomenal shaper to get a surfboard from you're in Northern California. We've got our half a dozen of great local hardcore guys that have been here forever. Nick Powell and Trini from source. We've got Travis Reynolds. You know, we've got, you know, just great guys that are up here. And that's what you should do. Because it looks good when you walk down the beach with a board that was handmade in the town that you're at.
Michael:
Yeah, yeah. Not only that, but now you're progressing from a soft top to a to a hard longboard. If you wouldn't go to wayne rich custom. You're never going to grow out of that boat, no matter how good you get.
Guest speaker:
And as I like to point out to people, you know, if you get a brand new, six, two, and you ride it all year long, it's gonna disintegrate. And be done at the end of that year. You get a brand new nine, two, and you're gonna have it for decades. So literally, there are exponentially more long boards in the world than there are short boards because the short boards disintegrate and die every year 50% of the phone made every year is over eight feet long. So half the boards every year are over eight feet long and those boards survive. Yeah, there's there's got to be less than 5% that die that first year and getting broken or whatever. 75% of those short boards are gone by the end of the year.
Michael:
I do have I love short boarding and if the waves turn on, that's what I want to be on. To me. The waves hardly ever justify being on a short board.
Guest speaker:
But again, you're playing the game the way I exactly like it where you're applying the right equipment to the wave conditions. So they're in good shape. When you're ready to ride them, but it's like oh, it's only this I'm going to ride that board. You know, that's why you want to have that's where the quiver comes from right?
Michael:
In my opinion is if you are not if surfing is not a sport and a career for you. There's no need for you to be on a short board all the time.
Guest speaker:
All the time. Correct. Absolutely. It's great to have him it's great to know how to ride him, but you want to have those other tools that you can have more fun with. We're out there to have fun, right?
Michael:
There's something I really like about you is whenever you see you surfing or talk about surfing or look at anything from you, it's there's always an element of fun around it. And
Guest speaker:
Why would you be doing it? Why would why would I still be reading about the next trip I'm doing in three weeks going down to Costa Rica if I didn't think it was gonna be unlimited fun.
Michael:
Unlimited fun. I love that.
Guest speaker:
We like to say endless fun, but that's just a play on the on the movies.
Michael:
Yeah, that's a great place to leave it. Thank you so much for your time and really appreciate it.
Guest speaker:
Cheers. Absolutely enjoyable.